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I am already having challenges with national's new fee. Charge my son for his Eagle application, and you can kiss not only FOS, but all participation in district/council level activities, except for free ones, goodbye.

I predict this thread will not go well.....

My Troop would pay the fee - and end all participation in Friends of Scouting.

When I joined the troop a group of older boys brought frisbees for plates and would line them with a paperplate or waxed paper sometimes which would be later used for fire starting. Was funny at meal time when one of them was looking for theirs after it had been thrown around hours earlier.

Just a blanket, though I might want to wrap a poncho around it. Best way to see stars at night. And see if it rains suddenly.

I am guessing the same as "coyote camping." That's where you are on the trail all day or building trail all day, drop your pack, lie down and sleep. No tent, no tarp, no sleeping bag: just sleep on the ground. That's how OA Ordeals were back in the day as well--lie down in your clothes and go to sleep. Maybe use your boots for a pillow.

Just one of the program areas at Camp Dilly Dilly.

Mess Kits! How about bowls or frisbees? For water bottles we advocate Smartwater Bottles and reused them over Nalgenes. YMMV. Yes Scouts should be cooking for themselves. The only exception would be if for example (we did this) when the older boys were doing an overnight 25 mile speed hike and arrived at camp to find that the younger scouts had cooked them bacon, eggs, and biscuits. Was the younger boys idea and well they were pretty popular for a couple hours.

The BSA updated and reprinted the SPL Handbook and the PL Handbook in 2017. The Troop Program Features have been replaced by Program Features for Troops, Teams, and Crews: A Guide to Program Planning (volumes 1-3). Most of the information in the new books is available for free at: http://troopleader.org/ http://www.programresources.org/ Here is a link to a suggested generic PLC Meeting Agenda. All of these are suggestions for troops - modify them however you like or as needed to fit what your troop wants / needs.

My apologies if this seems flippant, but I've got sons with IEPs. I swear schools use IEPs to manage the number one disease that schools can't handle anymore: being a boy. There is huge maturity differences in those two / three years. Jobs. Cars. Dating. I'd hope those kids would want to include your son, but I can also understand their wanting their own time. SIDE DISCUSSION - Pray I don't take us off topic. It's why I don't like mixed age patrols. Mixed age patrols work well in many ways, but I'd rather see scouts initially grouped by age or when they join

Local district OA got weary of doing multiple Crossover ceremonies, so they now do 2 Saturday's, at 2 hour intervals. Also they do them in February, so time compressed for Web II We have worked with the packs at our CO (there are 2) and now we the troop handles the Crossover ceremony. This is done late March. We have the bridge and the Scouts do the ceremony. Actually works well, not as elaborate but moves along. Webs get the AOL and arrow presented by the pack. Then we do the crossover, they wander the bridge, shake hands. Then there is cake.

Some bad decisions and choices impact all of BSA and not just your local OA. If the potential fallout from a decision could result in negative national news, then perhaps adults should be more actively involved in providing direction on that issue. Again, such direction is completely consistent with the role of adult leadership within BSA and for being boy-led, boy-run.

I'm getting tendinitis from jerking my knee over so many topics here. (at that point moderator moves me to new "Sports Related Injuries" thread)

Zach Wahls is running for an Iowa Senate seat: http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/a14511864/zach-wahls-iowa-state-senate-election/ Obviously his politics and his stance on BSA policies makes him a polarizing figure on this forum. If we can put the politics aside for a minute, though, the qualities of this young man (he's only 26) to seek public office and to be able to debate political issues and address crowds is truly impressive. Our BSA program is doing a lot of things right if we're helping kids develop the skills and confidence necessary to take a shot at a major public offic

That's good. There shouldn't be a fee anywhere.

Exactly. There are ES projects that can be done at almost any community organization. To answer the topic of the thread, I've noticed that ES projects are varied in how they come about. I gave an idea to my oldest son--outdoor Stations of the Cross at our Parish. The Parish loved it. My youngest son was asked to build a fire pit on our Parish church grounds for use by the youth group and the Easter vigil fire. The Parish also loved it. Another Scout talked to the Priest, and lucked out in that the Church was having a bat problem, found while they were fixing the roof. He bu

That sub reddit is wrong. I am IN Orange County Council, and if you read my post earlier in this thread, you will see there is no such fee being charged here.

If it is done correctly, I don't see it as an issue. Many regalia pieces are based on historic pieces and are meticulously researched. Some are even more "authentic" and historically correct (in not only appearance but construction) than what many actual tribal members will wear to a typical Pow Wow. If done correctly and respectfully, complaints are pretty rare around my neck of the woods. That entails actually learning the culture and learning what is appropriate and what is not. That said, you do see the "Chief Wannabe" types as well, which unfortunately give the Order a bad name.

Sounds like our unit is like @ItsBrian: Mess kits (no paper or plastic) Nagelenes (not styrofoam or disposable cups) KP water is Steramine (not bleach) Use drying cloths (not paper towels) Food for camp outs is fully eaten (we have awards for the patrols that have the fewest leftovers) Fire are only used for cooking or warmth. Hold LNT classes several times a year (both ethics awareness and ethic action award classes). Fuel conservation methods are also taught.

@Tampa TurtleI was wondering about the frisbees!

they fit the water filter....and smart water bottles are much more durable that the average water bottle (Zepherhills, Deer park, Dasani, etc...)

It is clearly a method to generate revenue, but one that seems to be poorly designed. There were something like 56,000 Eagles in 2016. There are currently 272 councils (per wiki). If we assume all councils create Eagles equally, then there are roughly 206 Eagles per council. @ $120 per Eagle, that is $24,720 in new revenue. Compared to the roughly 2.4 million in total scouts, or 8824 average per council, they could increase the per scout recharter fee by $2.80 and raise the same amount of new revenue. I know what option I would select if I was on the committee to make this decis

Ah, that makes sense. I would understand for a backpacking trip like that.

Most adult leaders in my troop wear the "Old Goat Patrol" patch, and have been since long before I got there. I was given one but have never worn it. Patrols are for boys. However, I have never said anything about it. I try to pick my battles, and that one has never seemed worth the effort.

Thank you! My protagonist certainly gets into some mischief. The most fun is hoodwinking the campsite staff to get her onto things like sailing and rock climbing There's also some more serious theme running through it, all the stuff teenagers have to deal with as they go through puberty. Jealousy, school bullying, boy meets girl, relationships with parents and all those other joyful things.

We backpack a lot and (the bigger ones) are a lot lighter per liter than the trusty old Nalgene. And if you leave it behind it is no bog deal. Mostly because the screw threads match the Sawyer Squeeze water filter. They are pretty sturdy...I haven't cracked mine yet though I might get some new ones after a year or so (you can clean them with denture tabs). The only downside is you might lose the cap so boys also get the smaller size with the 'sport-sip" cap and swap them out. The same with the bowls (I actually use an ugly plastic lemonade container) it is all about the backpacking w

@Thunderbird, you're assuming there's more to life than rank advancement! Oh, the tears of distraught moms you will see!

So so true. I question the value of IEPs ... except that parents need to make sure they get listed in the IEP accomodations they want. If it's not in the IEP, it's no where.

Unless any of us actually lives in the 37th Senate district in Iowa, or has other reason to know the dynamics of that district, what people are discussing here are all abstractions. If you had two candidates who were exactly the same except for one being much more experienced than the other, then experience is probably the overriding issue. But no two candidates are ever that much alike. What will presumably happen here is that the voters of that district will consider everything about Mr. Wahls and his opponent(s) - their age, background, experience (both in politics and in the rest of the

@WisconsinMomma ...and I am off to son#2's IEP meeting. More pushing around CYA paperwork than actual help.

I've never seen one on line and the BSA may have come out with a new one since the one our troop used thru 2005. But, I really believe that if the SM and the PLC worked together building their program from the SPL and PL, they will have a solid foundation for a patrol method program. In fact, I suggested the participants of my SM Specific class bring the SPL Handbook, so I could show them how much of the SM Handbook is in that book. Rare is the person who has read the whole gazillion pages of the SM Handbook. But SPL Handbook was written at the 12 year old level and can be read cover to cover

If it were me, I would suggest to my son that he find a buddy his own age and/or in his patrol to play cards with. Presumably your son was not the only boy who was not playing cards.

Our Troop has NEVER offered any family camping trips, nor are we planning to. I doubt that it will ever be an issue for the families of our Scouts. That being said, we are definitely planning to offer whatever program materializes for girls.

There see several issues being mashed together at once: (1) Does an Eagle Scout get an attaboy for running for office while being very young? (2) Does a young elected official lack enough life experience to be a good representative. (3) Do folks here agree/disagree with Mr. Wahls politics.

Some of us are already on that train and well down the tracks.

Yes - I'd wear the uniform. This is a district event. You and your son are members of the BSA. It is wholly appropriate for both of you to attend in uniform. More importantly. You're there with your son. Seeing you there in uniform is a great example to him. Go for it! BTW - nice call getting the official pants. I'm a believer that wearing the uniform correctly is a good example for the boys. We all get to the full uniform at our own pace, but when you can acquire all the parts, I think it's the best example for the boys.

My instinct is to put someone with that much enthusiasm to work in the pack. However, I worry that he's more into being a Scouter than he is in being a pack volunteer. I'm worried that he's going to bring unneeded drama to your team that may not be needed. The "Paper Trained" patch bugs me. I've got several adults in our troop that refuse to get trained, think they know it all, but really don't. I hear the same kinds of comments from them - the BSA doesn't know anything, the council guys are stooges, etc. It's not that they're bad people. In fact, they're generally great people. It

I'm as sympathetic to the financial plights of councils as any, but an Eagle fee is just wrong. You make it this far, there should be no fee. Here's hoping they reconsider.

You guys are thinking about this all wrong. Finally, a council has found the solution to all of their financial woes. However, they haven’t gone far enough. Each year they should auction off 15 Eagle Scout rank advancements to the highest bidder. I bet some desperate parents would fork over $1k each. Could you imagine what the first female Eagle Scout would go for if Nationals took this idea? I’m thinking six figures. You could sell lower ranks and other advancements as well, MBs, Eagle Projects, etc. $120 for Eagle is a bargain... But seriously... I have a real problem with thi

Why do you assume he wasn't including "traditional American families" when he spoke about fighting for peoples families? What prevents you from considering that he was talking about all families, even "traditional American families". Perhaps you should look at your own politics too.

Our Troop cabin camped one time a year - in January. Had you shared the cabin with us, you would probably have noticed a lot of similarities. The adults cooked - we used paper products. It is the only outing where the adults cooked for the Scouts and we used paper products. Most of this was due to logistical issues - the cabin had a kitchen with stove, oven, refrigerator and sink. The camp had a no coleman stove cooking in the cabin (and read coleman stove like you would read bandaid - as a generic term rather than as a brand). With 5 patrols and one stove, it would have taken most of th

Our Council/District always charged a fee . I took my first adult training course 38 years ago - cost $10. When I was a Scout, there was always a fee. I'm just pleasantly surprised that fees haven't seemed to go up much in the ensuing years. We've also found over the years that you get more participation if a small fee is charged. People seem to be less likely to find something more interesting to do that morning/day if they've paid a fee in advance. If you offer it free, you'll get a lot of people to sign up but you also get a lot of people who decide at the last minute that they'd

If true, can express checkout be far behind?

I’m sorry but, I would forget him. I would explain your situation to another MBC and have the SM back him up and the MBC can do a brief session recapping everything to ensure completion. If he filled out the workbook, that would probably help a little as well. I have had this happened to me & others I know. We explained our situation to another MBC. The MBC might be having health issues, personal issues, family issues, who knows.

Give your son a few options, and ask what he would like to do. He should talk to his SM about the matter, and see what he recommends. He could just keep calling and e-mailing the MBC, even if it takes a few calls a day to get him to respond. He could ask his SM for the information of an alternative MBC, to whom he could then explain his situation and request the requirements be signed off anew. He could (if you have the address and the means) even drop by the home of the MBC to request some help expediting the process. Talk to your son, and see how he wants to proceed

I always try to use friendly questions to encourage the person to reflect a little on what they are doing and representing in these kind of situations. A sample of a conversation I had recently: Me: "Hey Mr. Wilikers, (name has been changed) I didn't know you were registered as a new Scout leader!" Him: "Oh I'm not actually yet." Me: "But you have a new uniform on! Aren't you only supposed to wear the uniform if you are officially registered with the BSA?" (asked sincerely, and with a big smile) Him: "Oh, I just thought it would be fun to wear one I guess." Me: "Is tha

The first time I saw an OA ceremony team was at my AOL and Cross Over ceremonies. WOW THAT WAS AWESOME! It made me want to join the OA and do cool things like that. It is also a good way to promote the OA. One chapter I was in had a hard time and was in serious decline. We used AIA to revitalize it and make some serious impreovements. AIA team had a lot to do with it.

The issue of culture and identity have come up several times in this thread. It's a complicated topic, for sure. However, I think we need to be careful when we try to compare German and Irish traditions with those of Native American nations. There is no one NA culture, as there are many, many NA tribes and tribal nations. As said earlier in this thread, some tribes/nations support OA and work closely with their respective Lodges. In other cases, the opposite is true. I'll politely ask again for you to offer solutions to Packs who may need guidance on best practices when it comes to

I've met at least one young drum circle (the men of which got their start in O/A) who were granted membership in the Lenapi Nation for their attention to detail and respect for the tribe's culture. I don't go following drum circles, so pardon me if I generalize from a small sample, but seems to me that being recognized by a living tribe for your work trumps getting some stickers from an anime fan-club for your cos-play. If that's the kind of recognition in store for even 1% of active arrowmen, we would be fools to deny them that.

From talking to pros, my impression is that National doesn' t have a clue. I mentioned how AOL dens can Cross Over December 1st 2018, and they need a plan and prepared to be ready. Comment I heard was that if the program is not ready for January 1st, everyone can stay in and earn more activity badges until the program is. If my pack decides to withhold my youngest son's AOL and Cross Over ceremonies until a girls program was established, Scouting WILL lose my son. He is starting to get bored waiting for folks to catch up as it is.