Eagledad

This is a difficult question. Was the CM out of line? Yes, in general the adult by stander is not the judge of right or wrong in a patrol method program. On the other hand, did the Patrol leader need some guidance? We talk about learning from decisions and adults giving the scouts space to learn, but there is so much grey area that it’s hard to know where the adults role is defined. Learning from our mistakes takes practice. Knowing how to turn experiences into positive growth takes time and patience. this troop sounds young and inexperienced. The adults need as much time and practice to learn as the scouts. Quazse and NJ are both good reading. Your son’s troop is somewhere in between. So let’s look in the big picture. My advice is ask the son if the CM was right? If he says maybe, then ask the son why he is angry. If the son feels what the CM said was wrong, then the son has challenges at several levels. I would ask him to take some time to reflect, then talk to the SM. Then I would give my own opinion after they talked. There is something for all of us to learn from the sons experience. In our lives, we will always have CMs telling us what is right and wrong. The challenge is how a scout (and mature adult) should handle the situation when the CMs are right, and when they are wrong. And trust me, it’s just as challenging for a scout master to find the right words as it is the parent. The SM has has the added burden of adult pride to counter with. We CMs stand pretty tall and don’t like to fall. I hope the son sorts this out and has a life learning experience. I hope the SM has great wisdom for the scout. I hope the CM has to work weekends and misses the next few camp outs. Barry

I don’t know Eagle93, National has admitted they brought in girls to save the program from a declining membership. Switch the BSA and GSUSA titles around and your post would be just as believable. The BSA membership numbers have been dropping for many years. Once the influx of girls is stable, National has done nothing I can see that prevents the return of a continued membership decline. A good marketing slogan for the BSA in this moment could be: “Join the BSA, the lesser of two evils”. Barry

Admitting girls was the deal breaker for me. I will not be registering with my grand kids. But, my kids aren't happy about admitting girls to the program either, so I'm not sure that would come up. However, pragmatically, I don't think these YPT changes would have affected our program much 20 years ago. Barry

If you have the clout, go for the District Commissioner. I personally believe the DC is most power person in the district and has the most leverage with council. Besides other advantages, the DC can control the training and training materials. I believe (I know) training is the fastest avenue for making broad changes through the units. The DC was my goal for taking over the world, bru ha ha ha. By the time I was asked, I was so burned out that I declined. I know, but just the possibility that the person at the other end of my ringing phone was someone wanting to talk scout business nauseated me. And, that is why you haven't seen the world change for the better. Barry

Seems like a reasonable change with a coed program. Over the years I learned of scouting behavior situations and statistics that shocked me. I know that there are boy scout babies in the world. I knew that far enough back that those babies could be adult leaders now. One of my Patrol Method role models, who I met on the forum, quit scouting because of the coed problems in their Troop/Venturing Crew program. He and I were chatting (1997) at a Camporee 1:00 am while sitting between the girls and boys tents. He felt that American youth in our culture weren't mature enough to be coed. They were probably doing it wrong, because I know of a lot of successful Troop/Venturing programs that don't have this problem. Still, even church camps have to deal with the situation. But now we live in an open gay, transgender , and whatever culture. In fact, in some ways these behaviors are encouraged. I have heard of youth sexual abuses in scouting. And If I know of a couple, you can bet National has enough information to motivate such a requirement. The only time I can recall any of our scouts tenting together that were more than two years apart was a 16 year old scout who volunteered to monitor (babysit) a severely mentally retarded new scout. And, many of the sexual abuse reports I learned about were with scouts of the same age, and consensual. So, it's not and end all. Barry

Kids don’t always listen, but they are always watching what you do. Cindy Crawford

Let’s change that. We can’t have too much of a good thing. Stupid adult, always making rules. Barry

Don’t fear falling down, fear not getting up.

I have never felt more appreciated and unwanted as I did in the moment of his request. One wonderful thing that came out of my time off was the independence my younger 16 year old son gained as a result. We never saw much of each other at the meetings or camp outs, but we both felt a since of freeing when I wasn't part of the program. Kind of hard to explain, but it was a growing experience for both of us. Barry

A large jar of hair jell.

My replacement requested I take a 3 month hiatus because he felt my respect with the scouts might overshadow his effort in developing a relationship with them. I thought that odd since I trained him to be "Just like me". Barry

That is exactly what we do. During my stint as SM, we had two or three BOR leaders who recruited parents standing around, including new parents. The scouts have to request a BOR by signing up on a BOR request sheet. We always try to do the review the same day they sign up, which requires building a board with those standing around at that moment. The leaders give the volunteers a list of basic questions to help them get involved. Typically the leader starts with a few questions to set a tone for the BOR and to keep the question appropriate. As you said, it is a great way for parents to get involved. Barry

I guess, but I was hoping for quotes that both scouts and scouters could use in their units to motivate everybodies daily efforts.

My dad taught me this when I was very young. But he never gave Mark Twain the credit.

To answer your question, the CC is responsible for the BOR. Ideally they delegate the responsibility to another adult. You are in a tough spot because you are going to have to bring this up to the CC and/or committee. At the moment don't worry about passing around the responsibility. Your committee (and SM) need to get trained to how the advancement system works. If I were you, I would get all the documentation I could to learn exactly how the advancement process works and where the adults fit in. When you confront the CC and committee, you need to present facts back by the BSA. I say confront, but that sounds a bit harsh for how you discuss this subject. You don't want to get them defensive. You want to help inform the team so that they can be more efficient and not create some confussion down the road when a scout is getting ready for his EBOR. Barry