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  1. This is Doug Kennedy, a member of the TCC. First, I want to thank all of you for your comments over the past 18 months. Your comments and those in other forums, whether I disagree with them or not, have helped inform me as I work to represent all Survivors. As many of you know, the Coalition has made some statements both in the hearing yesterday and in a press release this morning. I find them horrible and the rest of the TCC does as well. Tonight is a TCC Town Hall and I invite you to attend so that you can hear directly how we feel about several issues. As well, we are going to hold mo
    12 points
  2. I don't think anyone said that. What they said is that we shouldn't just do weekly meetings and eliminate the outdoor program. Honestly, scouting without an outdoor program is not scouting ... its school. So why continue? Risk management is not eliminating all risks. It is mitigating them while still ensuring the program/process/product can continue. My son downhill skis. Yes, he can die. He could get seriously injured. He wears safety equipment and skis within his ability ... but there is still the risk. The ski club makes me sign a wavier to tell me of the risks. My
    10 points
  3. Taking over? Sounds like it already took over for you. Ask your wife. I know of many people that got in too deep, never said no, got burned out and then got angry. They left scouts, never to help out again and are bitter as well. To be honest, I've seen this often enough that I've come to the conclusion that there's something wrong with the program. It takes too many adults to make it work.
    10 points
  4. Scouter.com is not well liked by National and believe me, while we are all scouters, we have various opinions of BSA. I think if BSA fails, we will help build up a new scouting organization. If you want to know what national thinks of scouter.com just read this article .. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/boy-scouts-confusion-about-girls-in-boy-scouts#.pfl5BBjVE We do our best to allow topics to be discussed without editing/censorship. You will find that this forum is much more open than reddit/bsa or reddit/boyscouts or any BSA facebook group. However, there are ti
    9 points
  5. No one here, except members who are claimants, have any part of deciding anything in this bankruptcy. Let's drop the personal criticism of others who express in a scoutlike way their differing opinions. Thanks, RS @gpurlee@T2Eagle @Eagle1993 @MattR@elitts
    8 points
  6. Allow me to share a recent experience... I had avoided being an adult leader for many years, despite my natural tendency to answer the call. I really wanted to be a Scouter, but I wanted my kids to get the same benefits of Scouting that I did - namely the opportunity to interact with peers and adults outside my parent's eyes. When I finally volunteered recently it was like the floodgates opened. I'm slated to be the founding Scoutmaster for a Girl's troop that is linked to an established Boy's troop. But on top of that, I wanted to do everything that wasn't currently being done, be
    8 points
  7. I second all of that. Factor in this little story, as well. Add it to the consideration of “who [you] are dealing with” and “Don’t send your Eagle badge back to National. It does not seem to care.” You may or may not have read this post of mine long long ago, but here’s a recap. While in Wilmington applying to be on the TCC, I spoke with a lot of guys. The tension and raw emotion was palpable. Nervous sweat and incredible anticipation. Hopeful, but intensely vulnerable. Attorneys and BSA big-wigs milling about. I connected with one fella who was literally wringing his hands. We got to tal
    7 points
  8. Normally I wouldn't discuss user issues, but given his profile pic and signature I'm going to make an exception: Regardless of the impression given by his profile picture and signature line, CynicalScouter is NOT banned from the forum, or even blocked from posting. He merely received a 1 week penalty that requires his posts be approved by a moderator before they are visible as a result of posting behavior that was un-scoutlike and very near abusive/spamming.
    7 points
  9. @skepticand @CynicalScouter let's just drop it right now.
    7 points
  10. Fairness. The post that started this discussion asked whether the LC contributions were fair. There's real fair, and then there's bankruptcy court fair. I haven't seen anyone here express an opinion that real fair is achievable. Bankruptcy court fair is a different thing. The court is about money and nothing else. It is cold and emotionless. In a Chapter 11 case, provided the debtor can demonstrate its viability, the court will protect the debtor's right to emerge from bankruptcy and remain in existence. We, as a people, have created a mechanism that allows a debtor to go t
    7 points
  11. I person like the 1952 to 1965 stent where you found your own path outside the first 10. In addition you can make sure there is a diverse skill set earned and only some merit badges qualify in those groups. I feel the system is broken, the current list is boring for many scouts and it emphasizes classrooms vs activities. Im not saying the below is perfect (from 1952) but it is much closer to where we should go vs where we are today Camping, Cooking, Firemanship, First Aid, Life Saving, Nature, Personal Fitness, Public Health, Safety, Swimming, one from the Outdoor Sport
    7 points
  12. The TCC has apparently had enough of Survivors being misled. Just got a message that this video has dropped::
    6 points
  13. Half crazy? That is generous. I think they must be full on 100% crazy to take on a moderator role for this site.
    6 points
  14. Folks without your specific issue are struggling to deal with National's bankruptcy. Me, a non abuse survivor, Eagle, who has pretty much devoted my youth and adult life to Scouting, father of 3 Eagles, am trying to make sense of the whole situation. Later posts by you than this indicate your concern whether you completed all of a merit badge requirements for a particular merit badge-in light of the possibility that your abuser just "signed off" to send you out the door. If, as you indicated, there may be another merit badge you completed without issues that will "cover" a needed me
    6 points
  15. You need to slow down and take a few breaths between reading and typing, you aren't even responding to the right point of outrage here. Eagledad was talking about the Scouting program and the patrol method being a "proven program" NOT the Youth Protections.
    6 points
  16. As you to which you allude, it was a stupid decision. He should have been one of the very last to go before turning off the lights for the final time.
    6 points
  17. QUIT ATTRIBUTING WORDS TO ME THAT I DID NOT SAY!!! He did a fine job with Youth Protection and was a champion. In my discussions with him, he did not understand that the experiences in the Scouts BSA program were to build character so he had difficulty in understanding what elements needed to be retained with a new way to protect youth rather than cutting it. It is not an excuse. I was the one advocating external academic researchers to continuously study the program. I agree with outside observers and did not say otherwise. You do not have the only valid viewpoint.
    6 points
  18. Not replacing MJ with another external CSA expert is a disaster of a decision. It is fueling the anger in each of these speeches. If MJ wasn't working out, they should have hired a new CSA external expert. This was a major unforced error. This ignores everything else and assumes firing MJ was the correct move. This was under Mosby and he should be dismissed due that move regardless of anything else. There may be more reasons, but I feel that is enough.
    6 points
  19. OK, I hid a couple of comments that I felt were a bit too descriptive for an open Scouting forum. While they may be historically accurate, they felt a bit uncomfortable for me. I have asked the other moderators to review my action just to make sure I am not being a prude. I am sensitive to the fact that we have readers of all ages and I would rather err on the side of being a "safe" site for readers of all ages. Which is really difficult given the nature of the topics that we deal with.
    6 points
  20. "The Solicitation Agent’s E-Ballot Platform is the sole manner in which Ballots will be accepted via electronic or online transmission. Ballots submitted by facsimile, email or other means of electronic transmission will not be counted." https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/beb124f7-e931-4b0c-97cb-006a315622e8_6438.pdf at page 51 of 278
    5 points
  21. Sorry if someone has mentioned it but TCC Town Hall tonight. Zoom link: https://pszjlaw.zoom.us/j/82272826295 (no registration required) or by telephone: 888-788-0099 (toll free), Webinar ID: 822 7282 6295
    5 points
  22. Take care, I can see how that might have been overwhelming to you and many others. When I was SM I found that validating a scout's struggle was usually more powerful than trying to help them solve it. You and all the other victims deserve that validation. Not at all. It's why I said it depends on one's opinion before one heard it. If the headlines last more than a few days I'll be surprised. It's not that I don't think this is important. From my point of view this illustrates what is wrong with the BSA across the board. The BSA is as nimble as a ruptured turtle. Sclerotic and i
    5 points
  23. The youth numbers could use some specifics also. We had mother/leader overhear a tent of scouts talking about sex. She filed on that. We investigated and found the tent had four scouts the same age who had all been close friends (her son was one of them) since Tigers. It was nothing more than curious sex talk. Mom felt here son was a victim. Not to say that youth sex abuse doesn't happen, we have had a couple of pretty bad scandal's of youth sex abuse in our state high schools, partially in sports.. But, I have also heard some edgy discussions from tents full of scouts on high adventure t
    5 points
  24. IMHO nothing changed yesterday. We got Mr. Johnson's side of why he left, the rest we knew or strongly suspected. I want hard evidence of that data. At the very,very least, a release of names and contact information of the NEC and National Executive Board (as of when he left would give us a start). I am not writing Congress. I'm sticking with our own circus, I'm first writing members of the NEB. Another $0.02,
    5 points
  25. Um ... really. You laid off your Director of Youth Protection while in bankruptcy due to issues with youth protection? Um ... ok. I am just laughing right now .... I just. I hope there is more to the story.
    5 points
  26. They are not human shields, they are youth being served a high quality program. Please stop with the baiting of using comparisons. Victims on this site have stated that it is painful to see those comparison. Yet, you continue to poke and prod to get them. I can only conclude, you do not care if it is painful to them or you re trolling to get people to respond so you can rant more about your hatred for Scouting or if you just hope if scream loud enough other posters will just quit the site and go away (as it appears you have already succeed with @Daivd CO) Actually, I thin
    5 points
  27. This is not helping. Done right, this would be good. My dad was invited to a school in Germany where he grew up to talk to kids about what he lived through. In all honesty, it did him at least as much good as the students.
    5 points
  28. I want to apologize to any of my fellows who are represented by the Coalition firms. My intention is not to attack you or their work for you. All I see is what they are doing publicly (press), in court (hearings) and via their filings (OmniAgent Docket). Taken as a whole, I cannot help but react as I am, given the apparent self-interested motivations of counsel, the willingness to undermine the TCC, their efforts to get the estate (BSA/victims funds) to pay their attorneys, all topped off with the histrionics I’ve witnesses. I hope all goes well for you and all of us, but I am unable to keep q
    5 points
  29. Your pain, that of the others who have posted, and if the many others who aren’t on this board, do have value to the ground level volunteers like me. (‘Value’ used in this case only in quoting your post.) It’s very apparent at this point that there isn’t enough money in the pot to compensate for the renewed pain of the bankruptcy case, let alone the original abuse. Not that any amount could erase the harm done. I sincerely hope that when this is over there are enough of us (those who are involved in today’s scouting) who have become aware of the magnitude of the abuse, that we can make a
    5 points
  30. TCC presses on how the FCR came up with his numbers. So the BSA just agreed that the FCR's number of $5 Billion is 21% of a larger number. My rough math makes that $24 Billion! Thanks BSA for pointing out how low your settlements are to this point!
    5 points
  31. Touched a nerve I see. Is "you have no integrity to accuse him the way you have, Mr Boy Scout Skeptic" supposed to be an insult? Either way, if you want to defend Mr Kosnoff and explain why he doesn't want to burn the BSA to the ground then enlighten us, but insulting forum members isn't helping.
    5 points
  32. I am not calling anyone’s claim or legitimacy into question, but I’ve thought a lot about those numbers, having only my own frame of reference, experience and research to mull. As a survivor from an alcoholic, abusive home, I have a pretty good understanding of “walling off” memories. So, in light of that, I think the second number is very easy to understand, the first less so. I said this ages ago on the forum, but some geographic touch point seems available to most people. I lived in this town in this general location. We went to an Elk’s Club or school and I could walk. Something. I don’t u
    4 points
  33. We need to be very very careful about questioning the veracity of someone putting themselves forward as a survivor. We wouldn't tolerate anyone questioning the credibility of the posters who have come forward on these forums as survivors. We shouldn't --- and won't --- accept it about others. There are tens of thousands of survivors, that certainly means there are just as many divergent and honestly held opinions on what the best course of action should be.
    4 points
  34. I'm sure there are many victims, besides me, who have researched SoL and reached out to legislators about a change or window. I'm equally confident more States will enact changes to their SoL. And as the case develops, more avenues are opening up to toll the SoL's. So how can the Grey matrix be set in stone when laws are fluid? This has always been my line in the sand. I will never feel justice when the poor fellow across the river from me receives 5x my settlement for what may be a lower level of abuse, simply because he is in another jurisdiction. I'm aware that we are time barred.
    4 points
  35. I want to say this with all due respect if you are a Survivor, and respect for your personal wishes. But, for many Survivors there is a realization that "moving on" isn't as easy as seeing this bankruptcy resolved for the BSA first and foremost. Remember, this is the BSA'S VOLUNTARY bankruptcy and Survivors were dragged into it. For many that had "good" claims working their way through the legal system this will forever deny them their day if a permanent injunction is granted. For those hoping for a change in SOL it also dashes thoses hopes. I TOTALLY understand any Survivor wanting resol
    4 points
  36. I think one of the more interesting concepts that came out of Michael Johnson's statements was for the first time a senior member of BSA ackowledged that Scouting is a high risk activity when it comes to predators and child abuse. We've talked about it here on the forum but BSA has not even wanted to discuss that although it is pretty clearly a reality. I thought Vieth's outlining in black and white some of the reasons why was useful. It's why BSA can't defend itself by saying we are doing what everyone else is doing and more regarding YPT. The baseline for scouting has to be higher because of
    4 points
  37. Why let the #$%&! take any more from you. You did the work to earn the Eagle. I guess I have more of the mind set to say "look #$%&!, even with all the horrible crap you did, I still earned it in spite of you." Though I would likely have even more expletives.
    4 points
  38. No, if anything, I have doubled down. BSA has some serious issues and deficiencies. But they also have a great mission and a solid program. I don't think a start up organization to replace BSA could be half of what we have now. So, I am rolling up my sleeves for the hard work of rooting out the evil and preserving the program that achieves its mission, aims, methods, oath and law. I think our youth need and deserve a program that lives up to the standards that were set forth back in 1910
    4 points
  39. It is run more like a cult than a functional nonprofit organization.
    4 points
  40. Not really, in this sense: The plan was going down in flames anyway. This just reaffirms it. The TCC was going to demand tougher YP standards. This just reaffirms it. Johnson may (or may not) have gotten subpoenaed, now he 100% will get deposed by like EVERYONE. The TCC wanted $1.5 billion? Yep. That just got more likely. Where it comes in the longer term, post-bankruptcy The bankruptcy covers claims prior to February 2020. All future claims? Johnson is their star witness. As I noted and Kosnoff put it better: he'll be in depositions for the rest of his life.
    4 points
  41. If we cannot instill character in the program then it is no longer Scouting. Unlike you appear to be, I am confident that outside experts and experienced volunteers can modify programs to make a safe environment.
    4 points
  42. Thank you for sharing. It certainly is horrendous that multiple safeguards failed. An abuser was not removed. The council covered it up. The police gave up to quickly. I keep saying this and I'll say it again. The 82k cases contain a lot of information. It should be analyzed and understood. It would benefit the abused, the BSA, future scouts and society as a whole.
    4 points
  43. As a survivor and one of many victims of the same abuser who carried out his deeds across multiple boy scout troops, what gives the BSA, my LC and CO any right to complain about anything. PERIOD! I did go to the police and my case was turned over to a unit that specializes in the exploitation of children. And when law enforcement came knocking at BSA's and my LC's doors, they were told nothing to see here detectives. Guess what...24 years later I learned through this bankruptcy, BSA and my LC banned my abuser from scouting 11 years prior to me reporting him to law enforcement. So my path
    4 points
  44. From the forum Moderator Policy: "Members are reminded that topics are discussions to inform, reflect and not arguments to be won. "
    4 points
  45. With the little money at stake you mean a "Roylex" and "Guchey" shoes. 😉
    4 points
  46. Hello all. I am a leader of a Cub Scout Pack and I have been following this for the past few months to try to anticipate the impact to our unit. As things stand now, it appears that short-term impact to our unit will be minor aside from increased dues and maybe one less camp in our area. Long term … well the headwinds associated with Cub Scouts certainly haven’t disappeared but that is a different topic from bankruptcy. But nevertheless we have volunteers who are committed locally to Do Their Best for the scouts regardless of what is happening at higher levels of the organization.
    4 points
  47. It is funny since they are able to do a number of things that due to the national oversight of OA, the OA isn't allowed to do. Bare chests, face paint, AOL ceremonies, adults conducting ceremonies, etc. are not allowed in the OA. Mic-O-Say gets away with a lot.
    4 points
  48. Turning a blind eye? That is more than a little insulting to people who care about scouting and scouts and are trying to make sure things are done right. And you become indignant toward people willing to help when: You can produce no names of abusers or victims no location of abuse no date of abuse no location Your only claim is to say Google it, you will find it There is just nothing you have pointed to that is actionable. That is like trying to find a specific grain of sand on a beach.
    4 points
  49. The next time I hear someone complain that YPT is too restrictive about how it applies to interactions outside of Scouting, I'm going to point to this mess. The line is so blurry, BSA would be stupid NOT to have YPT treated broadly.
    4 points
  50. They said they are cutting one of the electives. I agree, too much book/classroom MBs. As a nerd, it was great/fine with me. But that isn't the program. The more Scouts is like school, the less Scouts we will have. They get enough school at school.
    4 points
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