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  1. May not be a big deal to most people, but my kid was on bacon duty this weekend. He crossed over in March and wont hardly cook at home. We help staff a Cub Family Campout this weekend and the Boy Troop and Girl Troop were both there. I am usually helping the girls and let him go on his own with the boys. Mainly so he starts to learn to do without me always being there to help. In addition to bacon, he also scrambled eggs, and cooked two hamburgers.
    7 points
  2. I think this is the wrong way to look at the problem and is the source of a lot of angst here. Rather than ask for a specific failure rate that is acceptable, after which everyone can say there is no longer a problem, it would be better to use methods that continually drive down failure rates. Look at air travel. Back in the 70's there were enough crashes that all the parties involved (manufacturers, airlines, regulators) got together and decided that air travel was both important and dangerous. They started measuring death rates in deaths per billion passenger miles traveled. I think it start
    7 points
  3. There is no doubt that our history has led to where we all are today. The past created our present. So a lot of people today are behind the eight-ball from the outset. It will take generations to right the ship. But, we've now also had generations of a relatively level playing field. My parents, born in the mid 1940s, were born poor. My dad's family had to get water in a bucket from the neighbor to flush their toilets. My mother was slightly better off but they did not own their own home when she was growing up, had ice delivery long after refrigerators were mainstream, and had no h
    6 points
  4. I was extremely dismayed to discover that BSA had created a DEI group, and have considered pulling my son out of Scouting because of it. Especially when they started pushing the new Eagle-required merit badge. DEI at face value sounds great. Who could be against diversity, equity, and inclusion? The co-opting of these terms has been ingenious. I believe DEI is sinister. Diversity inevitably starts having metrics. Metrics that presuppose some kind of quotas that should be met. This invariably results in punitive measures taken against whoever is not in the favored class. It's t
    6 points
  5. I know there often is a back and forth about suicide. Some say it's the ultimate selfish act by the one who lost the battle. Others who know the anguish understand it CAN be a severe mercy. I DO NOT condone or encourage self harm of any kind and certainly not the most extreme. I share these thoughts as someone who has been there. I thought everyone would be better off, including me, in my mortal coil absence. It seemed merciful to all involved, which of course is distorted and doesn't account for the good or the potential for healing, forgiveness, restoration, redemption and love that "covers
    6 points
  6. This discussion is the cart before the horse. What is the purpose of scouting? What is the purpose of the activities? I learned as I gained experience to measure if each activities was providing a positive growth opportunity for the scout. Mostly character, but other growth as well. By measuring each activity, I was forcing myself to understand the goals of the program, as well as insure the activities were presented in a manor that would produce growth. If the adults don't know where they are going, how do they know if they are doing it wrong? HOWEVER, scouting is game with a purpose and
    6 points
  7. I don't like it. The change should be "completed the fifth grade" or 11 years old. I agree with eliminating the AOL "early admittance". 10 year olds are way to young. Provide them with a quality Webelos program and do not push them into a Troop where they will be basically a "Webelos patrol". BSA sucks at recruitment and keeps thinking changing requirements or ages, etc... will solve it. It usually does the opposite. Older scouts are ok with younger scouts as long as they are not too young. This will exascerbates the frustration of the older scouts. BSA has no experts wi
    6 points
  8. She has a lot of work to do because confirmation of portions are typically appealed more than rejections. If she has issues with confirmation and must reject portions that becomes the BSA's problem to clean up. If she confirms portions and say the insurers appeal then she needs to have her case law locked down. Given the complexity of this and the historic nature and scope it should take a long time. Something else to consider. Judges ARE aware of news cycles. A long Memorial Day weekend coming up? The Friday before makes for a nice opportunity for s ruling when the press and others are
    5 points
  9. You may recall a recent post by our resident honorary Chief Scout @InquisitiveScouter Yesterday, I found this commentary https://seandietrich.com/scouts-honor/ Read the rest at at source: https://seandietrich.com/scouts-honor/ Mr. Dietrich concludes his commentary: Personally, I will never forget standing in a Methodist church, wearing a khaki uniform, showing three-finger salute, reciting an oath before my flag and my friends: “On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country, and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times
    4 points
  10. My own experience is that scout growth is dramatically slower without older scouts modeling the skills the new scouts need to learn. Troop Guides are OK, but they have to teach most of the skills in more of a classroom setting, while new scouts in a mixed age patrol just have to watch the skills being used in normal activities. The scouts in new scouts patrols tend to get bored because they don't stay busy enough when the troop guide isn't around. There is no resource of experience other than the troop guide. Then usually means the adults have to fill in to make sure the new scouts have a cont
    4 points
  11. Wow, that's quite a leap from what was really stated. Girls are wired differently than boys and and difference makes growth more challenging for boys when they are mixed with girls in a patrol method environment. The question isn't whether boys and girls can mix in scouting activities, of course they can. The question is whether benefit of girls and boys scouting together is worth the less growth for the boys. Barry
    4 points
  12. I thought this might be interesting discussion material. Scoutmaster Fred Young recruited Jakayla Armstrong to their church’s troop in 2019. At the time, he had to register Armstrong as a Lone Scout, since she was the only girl in the troop. He had faith that Armstrong could handle scouting with 10 other boys, he said, but he was wary at first. “Some boys didn’t want girls in the Boy Scouts,” he said. “And you have to be prepared for that.” Young said a handful of girls have joined other troops in the area, but none are African American – and his troop is the only all-Black troo
    4 points
  13. Then BSA will go Chapter 7. They brought this up multiple times. They do not have the liquidity to continue in bankruptcy after this summer ... and a completely rejected plan would likely take 6 months to a year to get through the process (plan, voting, confirmation hearing, approval). If national goes CH7, then expect many local councils to be immediately sued and a large number to file for their own bankruptcies. LDS and some COs will also get sued. I'm not sure if the BSA can survive, but it will be ugly for much longer. Now, I think a more likely outcome is that the judge either
    4 points
  14. Go ahead and start another subject. I enjoy these discussions and can talk hours about it in person. The whole idea of Patrol Method is to put scouts in situations where they have to make difficult decisions from the interactions with patrol mates. I learned that the preparing meals is the most intense patrol activity that exposes the scouts true character. And usually forces them to learn better habits of interacting with other people. We didn't always go to a camp where the patrol prepared the meals, but we made sure the patrols were independent so they would have to rely on each oth
    4 points
  15. Late to this post. In my district, cub scouts are done by over half. Virtualized cub scouting did not work. Packs that continued in person activities as much as possible during the COVID fear campaign are the ones that are healthy today. Packs that did not, lost a bunch of cub scouts. Another factor driving scouts out of the program is the push towards more classroom type activities instead of more outdoor activities. Recruitment has been significantly down. It has to be all the advertisements looking for victims of sexual abuse, because of the BSA. My chartering organization will no lon
    4 points
  16. You make several interesting points: Traditionally, we know from observation that the majority of chartered organizations have acted more in the role of a benevolent landlord rather than treating their Scouting organization as a true ministry or part of their organization. A meeting place, equipment storage and perhaps a Scout Sunday program or chili supper fundraiser have been the extent of their involvement. This has been common practice for decades. You are correct that court interpretations of the charter agreements have shocked some chartered organizations into realizing the
    4 points
  17. This past weekend was a District Cub Family Campout... So, the boy Troop and girl Troop helped staff. Meaning, we helped run the various activities during the day. Otherwise, it was a pretty typical weekend campout. I flew a kite on Saturday,.
    4 points
  18. Welcome to the forum, @DocDeVivo . Any uniform is acceptable, no matter how old.
    4 points
  19. I've always thought before that having a wider age range in scouts helped promote the magic of older scouts working with young. To me that magic was what scouting was about. And yet I can see how splitting that age group could help the scouts see the transition from younger scout to older. I had a lot of conversations with scouts along the lines of you're no longer the young scouts, it's time to start helping out. Something about the UK group system could also help that as well. The BSA also struggles with the transition between age ranges because they're separate units. If the same lead
    4 points
  20. I think it’s a cultural thing. I worked a lot with the 14 to 22 year olds and gained so much respect from them, as well as pleasure with the experience. They are the noble product of patrol method and have so much to give back. But, our culture expects them to go out into the world and get educated and find their place in the community. Like some here, many at National and others outside looking in see scouting as nothing more than an after school babysitting program. Move on from youthful play time and get busy with serious adult life. I agree the BSA doesn’t give the older scouts any vision
    4 points
  21. InquisitiveScouter is spot on. Scout Accounts were a bad idea from the get go. Complicates things. Integrity. A Scout is Trustworthy. Scout stuff only, never personal stuff, The moneys can never be viewed as a "COMMISSION" for raising funds for the Unit. The money is the units, and thereby the CO's . Period. Scout leaves Scouting? Money is the units. Scout transfers to another unit? The money is the "original" unit's. They could send it to the new unit, but I have often seen them not. One Scout I am aware of saved up all his SA, and when he Eagled out.... He bought the Tr
    3 points
  22. Are you serious? Several years ago BSA had a poll in which 94% of the respondents were either against (18%) or strongly against (76%) the proposal, yet BSA did it anyway. 94% OPPOSED AND THEY DID IT ANYWAY! (emphasis). National has repeatedly announced membership increases AT THE LAST MINUTE. One year they even told units to hold off on rechartering until they finalized the price. People repeatedly complained because units had already created budgets, and round ups were going on. Again, National was told repeatedly to give more notice to help the boots on the ground prepare, especially t
    3 points
  23. Well kind-of. Certainly the social issues had an impact on membership, but I suspect it's not the lion's share of the issue. A very significant issue has been scope creep in sports combined with the increasing rate of 2 working parents in families. Many of those sports that were once seasonal have become year round or 3-season endeavors. Tennis, Lacross, Baseball, Field Hockey, Soccer, etc.. So where once a kid might do scouts for 9 months and just stop long enough for a sport season, now their whole year is tied up so they just skip scouts entirely. And the reason BSA started movi
    3 points
  24. I find people often use the passive voice to hide... I always then ask the direct question, "Who told you?" If they can't give me name or point of contact, I ignore them. If they give me a name, I call the source (eliminate the middleman) and get the story straight. Nine times out of ten, what person A said and what person B heard are two entirely different things.
    3 points
  25. Best to go to the source.... *(( The true author of this article is unknown. It is here copied from the COME HOSTELING newsletter, Sept. 1980, of the Potomac Area Council of the American Youth Hostels, who received it from Dick Schwanke, Senior PAC Staff Trainer, who read it in the APPALACHIAN HIKER by Ed Garvey, who got it from the Potomac Appalachian Trail Conference Bulletin, which quoted it from THE RAMBLER of the Wasatch Mountain Club of Salt Lake City, which reportedly cribbed it from the I.A.C. News of Idaho Falls, which reported it from the 1966 PEAKS & TRAILS. I offer it h
    3 points
  26. I'm kinda disturbed by the attitude displayed here that bullying is not a reportable incident. Handling stuff like this on the quiet is a big part of what has led to the BSA's current legal trouble.
    3 points
  27. Been there done that. In fact, we tried almost 10 different approaches to getting first year scouts up to speed, and comfortable enough to want to stay. The BSA looses more scouts in their first year of a troop than any other age in the BSA. Our Troop certainly saw that problem. The quick reason for the drop out rate is that sudden culture change from being hand held through life by adults to instant independence of relying on the boy leader not much older than the new scout and themselves for surviving in the woods. It's terrifying for many new scouts. Now, you would think that the new s
    3 points
  28. The problem is that ,many adults are stuck on the imaginary age 14 restriction. Our only restriction was physical fitness maturity to make sure the scouts could physically do the adventure task safely. Except for Philmont. Could not get past that restriction. But, we usually did at least two or our own high adventure pack packing treks anyways. So, everyone that wanted to go backpacking could go. That doesn't include our backpacking weekend campout. Barry
    3 points
  29. A few reasons for Venture crew/patrols demise. 1. Not really popular outside of LDS units, and then it was those units that did not focus on sports. When the old Leadership Corps was turned into Venture Crews in 1989 (although some units like mine continued using Leadership Corps until we ran out of patches circa 1995), it did not have a huge following. I was hired in 1996 to create a high adventure program based upon the activity pins that were associated with the program, we had 0 interest, and I ended up doing COPE instead of because NO ONE signed up for it. 2. Varsity Teams and
    3 points
  30. Great question! In reality, they weren't. That is, you can organize your Troop any way you wish, and if you want to have an older group called the Venture Patrol, then go for it. Here's a website with some more details... http://www.seniorscoutinghistory.org/seniorscoutsite/venture.html Programmatically, who knows why the BSA moved away from this? The old heads here (like me) remember the Leadership Corps, which was essentially the same thing. http://www.seniorscoutinghistory.org/seniorscoutsite/leadershipcorps.html The REALLY old heads will remember Rovers, Emergency Servic
    3 points
  31. As to the photo I posted above, are you able to explain what it takes to become a certified time logger and fee application preparer? Mama "needs" a new pair-o-shoes. I'll cut down the hourly from $298.237519 to an even $250.
    3 points
  32. I have no idea what OAN is nor do I see what "Antifa" has to do with this. I agree, the current incarnation of the new merit badge is fairly tame. But there is a saying: "Once you let the nose of the camel in your tent before you know it you have the whole camel in your tent." All of this woke stuff was pretty tame years ago and look where we are now.
    3 points
  33. Could you add in "Antifa" into your comments? I almost have OAN BINGO! The DEI & Citizenship in Society MB are very mild. They are not on any sort of fringe of political stances. The early release of C in S did have some concerning content, but that was removed. So far, I see no impact to day to day operations of any unit from DEI. The biggest impact I have seen is council JTE which was actually created back in 2019 (prior to DEI). So, for 1 line item in JTE, the "goal", at the council level, is to recruit your minority ethnicity at least 45% as well as you do the
    3 points
  34. Lots of assumptions on how the BSA will end up doing it. I have been in other orgs who didn’t do it how you describe.
    3 points
  35. The issue both he and I highlighted was the fact that BSA at all levels "knew or should of known" the imminent threat of CSA throughout the organization. The documented knowledge of that irrefutable evidence created/creates a gimme case of negligence under the law. The "knew or should of known" element was NOT ONLY regarding disconnected, diffuse incidents in many locations over 10 decades, but it illustrated in great detail, among other things: 1. Repeat patterns of grooming; 2. Behaviors and indicia of both abusers and high risk Scouts; 3. High vulnerability and easy access wi
    3 points
  36. There's a third option, not at all volitional. I did not come to a place of factors allowing me to share. I had hinted, but never disclosed to anyone other than the girl I dated who was abused by her father, along with her twin sister. Even then, the words were few. In my case, the factors wrenched from me the box I had been desperately clutching to my chest. A box of "dark and dangerous treasures" which had been poisoning me from the inside out for 30 years. In a very real sense and more accurately, the infectious box finally ate its way out of me in true Alien fashion. My body couldn't
    3 points
  37. Well written. I fully agree. It's just not possible. Hindsight and changes in judgement, values and expectations causes past records to be more damaging than valuable. Also, isn't that the whole thing that opened BSA's legal nightmare? BSA kept incident records from 50+ years ago. ... It's legal negligence that BSA did not have these documents subject to a data retention policy. Yes, handle the incidents. Follow the law that exists at that time. Make the best decisions and take the right actions. Then, when done, the records should have been subject to a standard data re
    3 points
  38. Just ask. I fixed the not now typo
    3 points
  39. Makes sense. Dioceses are independent businesses with their own lawyers AND their own state oversight requirements. For example, my diocese has legal reporting requirements to the state AG as part of a settlement. Other dioceses don't necessarily have those expectations. BSA needs to drop the term "charter". Like most churches, Catholic dioceses "conceptually" strongly support BSA and scouting. The issue is the contractual and legal obligations. Long gone is the 1950s honorary view of a charter. Courts are now enforcing it as a legal document with millions of dollars of liability
    3 points
  40. Our council covers multiple states. It is interesting that the Catholic dioceses in some states have ceased to charter Scouting units but not in other states. It is also clear that at the national level the UMC is seeking to continue a relationship with the BSA. Assuming that the proposed settlement is approved, it appears that there may be a variety of options open to local congregations that wish to continue some level of involvement with the BSA. It may be a traditional chartering model or more of a "landlord" relationship that limits CO liability. Our own UMC sponsored units are in a wa
    3 points
  41. Norman Y. Mineta, a son of Japanese immigrants who was held in an internment camp during World War II and later became one of the country’s highest-profile Asian American political leaders, as San Jose mayor, a 10-term congressman, and as Transportation Secretary who ordered commercial flights grounded after the 9/11 terror attacks , died May 3 at his home in Edgewater, Md. He was 90. Sources: https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096440480/norman-mineta-first-asian-american-cabinet-secretary-dies-at-age-90 https://www.truckinginfo.com/10169918/norm-mineta-a-uniquely-american-story
    3 points
  42. Rather than give any money to the council I'd suggest going to one of the camps, ask them what they need that's worth about $250 and go buy it for them. They will be thankful. Do not give them the money and do not give it to the council saying it's for the camp as the camp will never see it. This is my experience. In the meantime, tell the guy that told you the 40% fable that the deal is off the table because they lied to you. Nobody pays 40%, not even for popcorn - that has a built in 33% that goes to the council. <end of rant>
    3 points
  43. Welcome @MattySchnides! Zero percent!!!!!!!! And the DE response is laughable.🤣 Units do not exist to provide a cash cow for the council. Give them zero and ignore any other correspondence on the matter.
    3 points
  44. I'm telling my parents to not buy the Cub Scout handbooks. At $25 a year, it's another expense that really isn't needed. Scoutbook has all the requirements and a little Google time will clarify any questions. My kids haven't opened theirs on their own at all. The Boy Scout handbook is probably more useful as it isn't a one year and done thing.
    3 points
  45. OK, then find another adult to go camping and offer it up. Even if you only get two Scouts, go hang out in the woods!
    3 points
  46. Hello all! I'm Andrew from Canton, NC. I used to be fairly active on the "official" Scoutbook discussion forums page, until they banned all content that wasn't related to "Scoutbook, Internet Advancement and all other BSA IT software and resources". I'm happy to find this website so I can learn from others and share my own experiences. You'll most likely find me in the Cub Scout forums as I am a AOL DL/CC for our Pack.
    3 points
  47. I'm not sure what to think about this. I'm up for discussion, but I believe 95% percent of scouters couldn't even quote the Aims (character development, citizenship training, and personal fitness). or Methods (ideals, Patrols, Outdoor Programs, Advancement, Association with Adults, Personal growth, Leadership Development and Uniform). .And, those who can quote the Aims and Methods generally believe that the adults are responsible for both the Aims and Methods. I don't think knowing the Aims and Methods is the problem. I personally believe that not knowing how to use Aims and Methods is
    3 points
  48. In a Scout troop, everyone pulls his weight and does his/her share of the work. BP said, "Never do anything for a Scout that a Scout can do for himself." hat's the program. No, I don't think it should be changed.
    3 points
  49. As @scoutldrstated, you do not "join" OA, you are elected by the members of your troop. In order for someone to be elected, the scouts in the troop should know that person well. Were I still a youth member I would be leery of voting for someone who dual registered for no other reason than to use our troop to gain election to OA. If becoming an Arrowman means that much to you, I would either try to convince your SM that being elected to OA is not going to cause you to neglect your troop, and therefore allow an election to be held. If that cannot be accomplished you have to look at the p
    3 points
  50. All of the camps in Rhode Island have been leased for as far back as I can remember. They're owned by RIBS (Rhode Island Boy Scouts), one of the early organizations that merged with the BSA but continue to exist as the entity that owns those camps. Narragansett Council doesn't own any of them (there is a lot of cross-fertilization between the boards of RIBS and the council, but they are legally distinct entities.) So, there's a lot of precedent there, and yes, NCAP applies.
    3 points
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