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  1. The BSA would've been in it's current position regardless of what it did regarding membership policies. The bill for sexual abuse was going to come due regardless.
    7 points
  2. Hello All. New here-first post. I read these forums for hours and hours, and signed up to post this. So, as I understand the upshot of it all: 1. That National initially indicated that Local Councils would pay nothing and be protected but now the Local Councils are expected to pay $600 million which will result in the sale of hundreds of Local Council Camps and Council offices, though the National High Adventure Camps will be protected and survive. 2. That National initially indicated that Chartering Organizations would pay nothing and be protected but now Chartering Org
    6 points
  3. Probably re-hashing a really old argument yet another time. ... I agree that we don't need to keep re-imaging BSA and the programs. I would say though that I disagree on the strengths. I feel like a church member who still has faith, but is now questioning one of the long-promised values. Leadership. I just don't think troops teach it well. I question focusing on leadership. I question encouraging adults to teach leadership. Scouts will learn leadership naturally by trying to get their scouts out doing things. Be active, etc. I never wanted my scouts to be in scouting beca
    6 points
  4. Let's hope that we don't have a group that wants to "re-imagine" the BSA and it's programs. The Cub movement toward heavily family oriented over the last 10 - 15 years was not getting in the droves of new members, adding females (not debating that) also did not result in massive new numbers. BSA needs to play to the strengths. Leadership, skills development, outdoor adventure. Get some ACTUAL marketing going on a LOCAL and NATIONAL level. Sell the program to the Youth with some selling to the parents. Show Youth doing things, going out and having FUN. Troops (can't speak for Cub
    6 points
  5. I advocate for the Fieldbook as a primary resource too. Especially the first one. I often find copies of these at garage sales for $1. I have mentioned in the past a patrol could go page by page with the original fieldbook and lead a fantastic program.
    5 points
  6. Sounds a lot like someone who got kicked out of the dance and found himself complaining about the music from the parking lot.
    5 points
  7. Our troop goes and does stuff. That is the goal. On many occasions we get a parent (or leader) that feels we should have "advancement outings", work on this or that specifically. The SM and key leaders always push back on that and continue to just push going and doing stuff. Go have fun. Now just because we do not have specific advancement thrusts on outings, does not mean that advancement does not (or cannot) happen on an outing. I always like working with Scouts on Camping merit badge, first we camp (not including summer camps) over 20 nights a year so most Scouts get that pa
    5 points
  8. They realize this is probably the last major opportunity to kick around and the BSA. Given that TL prohibits gays I would never let my son join nor would he want to (just as I would never support any organization that would exclude people based on race).
    5 points
  9. IMHO, has been passed over may be more accurate or maybe I missed the judge's ruling on which National properties were restricted and the whole J.P. Morgan shell game. Locally, the prospect of selling a council camp(s) more utilized by our scouts than all 4 National camps is not sitting well particularly when Irving incredulously adds, "we share your pain". My $0.01,
    5 points
  10. “ Now, they really do have patch sensors who arbitrarily approve or reject designs that are created by local artists. Well, if that isn't infringing on the constitutional rights of freedom of speech and freedom of expression, I don't know what else is. “ First, I am sorry that you are choosing the leave. It is the current and future Scouts in your area that will suffer because of it. Second, I am not sure what the the issue is with patches but an organization excerpting control over things that reflect on its brand has nothing to do with your “freedom of speech and freedom of expre
    5 points
  11. We have a new CM that knows it all because, well you know. He poked my kid the other day and stated loudly, "he can't that have that patch there, you know". Its a Whittlin' Chip patch on his right pocket flap on a Webelos uniform. Maybe it can be there, maybe it cant. I have seen the arguments on that one. I DO know that the minute he poked my kid it fused that patch to the shirt more firmly that badge magic and it just wont come off now.
    4 points
  12. Absolutely. Ditch the stuff scouting does not shine at. .... at least minimize. Scouting SHINES when it takes kids outside. Hiking. Biking. Canoe. Teaching outdoor skills. Scouting bumbles around in just too many other areas. Scouting can claim so many positive reasons to be a scout IF IT WOULD JUST STOP DESIGNING THE PROGRAM TO TARGET THOSE REASONS. The reason to be a scout is simple. To be outside. To have adventures. To try new things. To make friends. To explore the world. To sit by a campfire. ... The rest is hogwash. Sure it's neat to point and brag at,
    4 points
  13. Part of the problem, too, is that we are trying to create these country-club type experiences for people. Swimming pools, air conditioning, hot showers and flush toilets, climbing towers, ATV programs, bicycle liveries, STEM centers with computer labs, bands, fireworks, catered food service...sorry, but we have lost the bead on what a week under canvas is supposed to look like. How much does a wilderness camp cost to maintain?
    4 points
  14. This is a great comment. By focusing on one leader the BSA, while talking about leadership, pushes aside teamwork and also responsibility. It's much easier to learn leadership if one is confident in what needs to be done and the team understands how to work together.
    4 points
  15. This reminds me of a campout the PLC planned where the patrols would went on a course with a 3 mile hike, 5 mile bike ride and canoeing navigation course. The patrols had 15 stops where the had to do a skills competition. Very complexe and we thought it would take the whole Saturday. All the patrols carried lunch with them, but in the end, all 6 patrols completed the course by noon and eat lunch in the camp site. But, the story in the story is I got a call from a pack leader a week before asking if their 3 dens of 23 Webelos could camp with us to check out the troop. I wasn’t sure how we
    4 points
  16. -The smile and look of absolute, pure joy from the Scout (with a single mom) with cerebral palsy who caught his first fish! - The grin from the small-statured Scout who learned to handle a canoe solo and completed Canoeing Merit Badge... - Running into an Eagle Scout at Philmont, now a Scoutmaster, who I hadn't seen in 20 years, and he tells his Scouts there, "This is Mr. X!", and the look of wonder from them that I really do exist...I can only imagine the stories he told...like how he felt when he finished his first 50-miler in our old Troop, or really learning to navigate and orien
    4 points
  17. I always struggle with this explanation because it's not about female that set the program back, it's the large influx of adults without any scouting experience. I was there, so I know the passion and enthusiasm moms brought to the troop program. I personally trained many female Scoutmasters. But, like just about all male and female leaders without a scouting experience, they didn't have the experience as a youth to guide them into what drives youth to scouts, ADVENTURE!. Adults by their nature look at stature as the goal of their adults decisions. Adults strive to be better at everythin
    4 points
  18. The request of others (me) and direction of the moderators was regarding global, general aspersions and negative characterizations. They specifically said it can be appropriate and acceptable to comment on the actions, etc., of attorneys and other players as it is relevant to the case, as in this situation. Also, I see no abusive or derogatory language in either of the posts quoted. I may have missed the point you were trying to make.
    4 points
  19. I hope you stay strong. You've already hit on the most important part of all of this, what happened WAS a part of your past. This bankruptcy though has dragged it into the present for those who were ready for it as well as those who weren't. I hope for all our sakes that at some point we can all find a way to put this back in the past where it belongs. That's a tough destination to reach and the path is an individual one, sometimes interminably long with a lot of detours. Just don't ever give up and you'll keep getting closer.
    4 points
  20. I can't wait for the next episode. Is it getting to the good part? Since the mediation parties agreed to pay the Coalition millions of cheddar for their critical role in reaching the deal, sans a hinted at objection by the TCC, do all said parties oppose "exposing" the Coalition? I know it will delay the process, but I will again admit and reiterate my feelings. These are not well thought out as to the impact at this stage, but they arose from about September 2020 through the bar date. I resented and also panicked watching the exponential rise in claims through a process that seemed painless t
    4 points
  21. Outside of an Eagle board of review I have never heard a kid say they joined Scouts to " become a fine leader"; "learn to be self reliant"; "learn important lessons that will help me through my life's journey" or any of the other grand ideas that many Scout leaders focus on. Nooooooo, instead I hear things like " to camp out"; "so I can have a knife"; "to go swimming"; "to go to summer camp"; "to mess with fire"; or simply " to have FUN." I just can't help to wonder how many young people are very disappointed and just walk away because they didn't get what they thought they would get.
    4 points
  22. I think you guys are right on the money. I think that there is way too much focus on teaching lessons and building leaders when the focus should be on having fun outside.
    4 points
  23. Subject to approval by the court and a vote by the victims. There's a lot of field left to plow, but it is on the path towards a settlement.
    4 points
  24. Just returned from Summer Camp. 33 of 38 Scouts attended. (86.8%!!!) Would have been 34, but one pulled out last minute due to a broken foot. ($465 per head with $50 early bird discount...some came in later at $515. Plus a $40 bus ride to/from camp...so minimum $505 per camper.) Last month, we offered a 35-mile hike over 5 days/4 nights on the Appalachian Trail. We used this to conduct a Leave No Trace Trainer Course. Only five Scouts took the opportunity. ($110 per head.) We also do a Troop high adventure each summer. In two weeks, we leave for a 50-mile canoe trek (no portag
    3 points
  25. I'm skeptical because scouts already join for the outdoor fun and adventure. That part of the program is fine. The adults are the ones that turn it on its head, and I'm not sure how that can change. Where I disagree with Fred is he wants to simplify the program so the adults can do a better job. But, if we take away goals, adults by nature fill in with their own ambitious desires. I don't believe that adults will allow scouts to lead if leadership is not part of the goals. I've watched to many adults fill in their self-desires where they see gaps in the program. An afterschool outdoor pr
    3 points
  26. Real camps don't have wifi. Go sit on a rock and enjoy the breeze.
    3 points
  27. The more it goes away from this, the more it does “outdoor themed school work” the few youth that will join and stay. Do the outdoors. Don’t write a report on the outdoors.
    3 points
  28. We have had several serious cases in our units. Prevention really needs to include more than repellents and tick checks. BSA doesn't give any common sense guidance about camp site selection, tick activity, vegetation and areas to avoid, etc. Whether it's blue green algae or giant hogweed or rabies, there are a lot of outdoor concerns BSA is pretty silent on despite the fact that it is an organization that routinely puts kids out in the woods. There's a knowlege gap.
    3 points
  29. But the point of the insurers, and I'd point out some of the victims lawyers now, is that it isn't the Trustee's job yet. The Trustee doesn't have a job until 2/3rds of (voting) claimants approve the plan and that at least some (many? most?) of those 82,500 voters shouldn't be voting in the first place. Some of this is just sloppy lawyering (mass approval of the claims in a frenzy of last minute signing) and some is 100% made up. The Coalition's objection basically agrees with you: challenging the claims is premature, let's just vote and fight it out at either the confirmation stage or th
    3 points
  30. If I read the filing correctly the firms that are mentioned represent 65,554 claims. Not all were signed by the lawyers but it doesn't put the rest of their claims in a good light.
    3 points
  31. It appears "Peter" has checked in since his initial post. Odd he has not responded.
    3 points
  32. From my 2 years of Scoutmaster, some of the best things was a new Scout who I helped get over her fear of lighting a match to fuse a rope or the Scout who was very very afraid of shooting a 22. She wanted to, but didn't think she could. It really was the little things.
    3 points
  33. There are two, somewhat overlapping issues as near as I can tell. 1) What, precisely, are the financial ties and legal roles of Kosnoff, his lawfirm, "Abused in Scouting", and the Coalition? And what are their legal authorities to speak on behalf of victims? Going back to at least August 2020, Century insurance has filed a series of "Rule 2019" motions and demands to demand a clear understanding of what Kosnoff's role is, what his firm's role is, and what the Coalition's role is and "Abused in Scouting" is The August 2020 motion: https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/
    3 points
  34. Just to make it official, ThenNow correctly related the current policy on the discussion of lawyers within this (and related) threads. Generalized discussion about lawyers and their motivations is not acceptable; but specific discussion about any attorney involved in the case and actions they've taken or statements they've made are fair game.
    3 points
  35. That is due to federal law and has nothing to do with BSA's wishes. In short, all pensions are guaranteed by the federal government (Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation). You cannot attack the pension via bankruptcy and even if the pension became part of the bankruptcy in the event of a liquidation the pension program gets paid out first/near the top. So no, you cannot attack the pension. No. The decision is the Council's. Precisely because Councils ARE independent entities, the decision on their assets belongs to the Council, not National and not the Council/Scout Executive. Rig
    3 points
  36. Our state United Methodist Church Council issued a statement today saying all Methodist churches should not renew COAs but have the council charter units instead to limit liability.
    3 points
  37. I believe the pros at National did loose focus on the boys and the ideals of developing character. They lost the concept of scouting and it’s values, so they justified their existence with Greed for money and members and change the program in two areas that hit the program hard. First, they went after first graders to increase cub recruitment. That blunder brought in boys with a toddler maturity, which didn’t mix well with the advanced maturity of the rest of the age groups. The increased overhead pack management burned out the adults and they left. Second, National brought in femal
    3 points
  38. Well, BSA did mention the DC revival in their First Day Motions Informational Brief [D.I. 4], filed on the first day of the case, page 5: https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/799040_4.pdf "In January 2020, for example, a group of plaintiffs filed suit in the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia alleging that the District’s recent revival-window legislation permits plaintiffs to bring previously time-barred claims, regardless of where the abuse occurred or where the plaintiff resides. [footnote: See Does 1-8 v. Boy Scouts of America, No. 20-00017 (RJL)
    3 points
  39. Huh ... Go figure. I always thought it was because so many outside organizations keep taking pot shots at BSA to promote their own agenda. And this article is in a Christian magazine?
    3 points
  40. I found two different versions of the lyrics translated from Czech to English. Here is the first: Here is the second:
    3 points
  41. The funny thing is we have pretty much the ideal opportunity to sell that kind of outdoor fun right now. Parents are favoring outdoor activities over indoor because of COVID, and the BSA still encouraging the same, if you can do something outside instead of inside do it outside. I haven't held a den meeting indoors since Feb 2020. We're pretty good at getting kids outside and having fun. If only we had a National marketing campaign available to us to reach local families with that kind of outdoors-heavy message. Instead, the latest marketing materials and stock photography we have from na
    3 points
  42. Our council stated that territories are coming in to evaluate camp needs between councils. Don’t forget that it is highly likely many councils will merge post bankruptcy … so the sale of council camps must be coordinated. So there is some coordination going on. While I am sad to see camps go, they were not fully utilized when we had 4M scouts let alone 1M. A bunch of camps utilized at 25% capacity or worse leads to decline of all camps. It would be better to focus use on fewer camps to increase their utilization. Volunteer hours can then be focused on those camps. My bigge
    3 points
  43. I wish the BSA had left well enough alone and kept "Leadership" as one of the Methods of Scouting rather than slipping it in as an additional "Aim of Scouting" as they did a few years ago. With "Leadership" now as both an Aim and a Method, not only has the BSA confused the concept of Leadership they've also muddled the foundational principles of the organization. Inexcusable.
    3 points
  44. It can be confusing. I'll try to overly simplify it. A Victims Trust will take possession of the insurance policies. Basically, the BSA "assigns" them. Then, the trust allows some small number of "slam dunk" claims to go to court with much coordination. This will include a negotiated percentage of any award going to the trust so that it doesn't dilute coverage limits for remaining victims. Theoretically these claims will win in court and the insurers will then be liable for paying. String together enough of these and the insurers will want to settle to stop the bleeding. What this judg
    3 points
  45. Do you really think the US Constitution protects you from the BSA saying you can’t design a patch with its logo as part of it?
    3 points
  46. Then you have been defending something you don’t understand. The Bill of Rights protects you/us from the government infringing on our government from infringing on our inalienable rights. Please stop communicating differently because it is not helpful….especially during these trying times in our country.
    3 points
  47. THIS is the Cleary-type reporting I was hoping for. Annual data on how often BSA is failing at protecting youth.
    3 points
  48. It would be interesting to see, by council, the amount of money they're putting into the sexual abuse fund compared to their annual salary budget.
    3 points
  49. One thing I saw someone wearing was a leather rounder with Eagle mentor pins on it. He wore it as a temporary patch. If I was to wear unofficial pins, I would go this route.
    3 points
  50. Actually, parent pins shouldn't be worn on the uniform, and there's really nothing to be gained by doing so. Let your child represent him- or herself in the youth uniform. You best represent the Scouts by being properly uniformed yourself, and part of that means remembering that parents' pins are meant for non-uniform wear. Nowadays, there are nice parent ribbons available at the Scout Store on the which you may place your pins, but again, those are not to wear on the uniform. In our troop, when we present our parent pins we remind them that while they are lovely reminders of their child's acc
    3 points
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