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  1. IMHO it would also be a good time to rethink "Eagle required" merit badges - subject areas, number, difficulty...
    7 points
  2. Too many Americans have been staking out absolute positions and daring others to cross a rhetorical line. Sometimes the rhetoric on even this site has trended in a similar direction, with folks just not showing respect for reasoned but differing views. The divisions that evolve reduce our confidence in our nation's Constitution, and similarly in the fundamental approaches in Scouting. The WWII combat veterans who were the Scoutmasters and Skippers of my youth were not that way. They fought hard in a war to ease my way through life, and Boy Scouts and Sea Scouts helped make me what I hope i
    6 points
  3. I admire all of our paid Scouters. Our SE is involved and engaged with our Scouts and enjoys spending time with them. Our DEs are exceptional and work tirelessly to assist our units to be successful. Thay are worth every penny they're paid. When I retired I was asked to take on the responsibilities of a DE and I declined the offer as I am well aware of the work they do and the sacrifices they make. If they were paid by the hour they would all be wealthy. Scouting needs those professionals and I am thankful for them.
    5 points
  4. There are JTE points for having patrols and having PLC meeting, but no points for patrols doing anything as patrols, for patrol leaders making any decisions, for the leaders - Scouts - being elected, or for the bulk of time in Scouting being in a patrol context - as required by Scouting - even said to this day in Scoutmaster Training materials to be required. How to bring JTE back to Scouting: I posted suggestions, apparently in the wrong place, 1ST: measure the things that BSA no longer cares about enough to actually do anything to promote them - esp, but not exclusively,
    5 points
  5. Concur. That is why BSA doesn't do it. They give you the minimums. We use BSA directives to establish the minimums, and then rely on judgment, experience, activity or subject matter expert advice, committee advice, and the input from other leaders on the trip. It's a pretty good recipe for success.
    5 points
  6. Here we go again. You're taking what I said completely out of context (and is a SPECTACULAR example of how the left is twisting the discussion. You started with replying to: with You ignored the points made and gave a definition of an unspecified term. I attempted to further clarify the objection with examples of what this side of the political spectrum advocates. You decided to change the subject at hand and imply we are criticizing diversity (apparently the definition you gave). Neither of us are doing so. We are criticizing the abhorrently abysmal "research" (which is lit
    5 points
  7. Well put position. Here is the hook about DEI that gets peoples' attention. Zero posters on this thread, regardless of their position on this issue, are coming across as racist or sexist to me. Yet, as I read through these comments, especially from certain commentors, there is a clear implied accusation that those of us against DEI training must be racist, despite a complete lack of any evidence to the effect. This is attempted bullying from the people who are telling us we all need to stop being bullies. Outside this forum, which is thankfully mostly respectful, the accusations are much
    5 points
  8. This right here is the problem. The terminology used includes a plethora of loaded words/phrases by design. Example: Black Lives Matter. The problem is that there are (at least) 3 definitions. All 3 are used as it suits the speaker to promote their agenda: Black Lives Matter (general concept): no objection here. The lives of Black people DO matter. Anyone who objects to that concept isn't within the realm of reason Black Lives Matter (the organization with "trained Marxists" in charge, by their own claims). Whose goals include the destruction of the nuclear family Black Li
    5 points
  9. This is an inherently political discussion. If BSA doesn't want to have it they shouldn't be requiring a MB about it. The law and oath exemplify scouting enough, and apolitically, to get the message we all agree on across. DEI comes from one side of the political spectrum, the quality of the 'science' supporting it is on par with Eugenics, and we don't all agree it's a good thing or that it is even consistent with the law and oath. Hence this conversation.
    5 points
  10. I wish there was a way to punish those responsible for the abuse instead of punishing the program for today's scouts.
    5 points
  11. Reading through this article makes it obvious the journalist knows precious little about our religion; however, regardless of the writer's ignorance the simple fact is that the increasing ubiquity of these cases means nothing but trouble for the BSA. I have no doubt but that the church will weather these accusations as well as ever (we've endured far more calamitous calumny than this before), but BSA national? They have had their backs to the wall for too long already, and these cases will do far more damage to Scouting than they will to the church. My heart goes out to the innumerable vi
    5 points
  12. As I recall, the consensus of the longtime Scouters I knew was that it was a MB that didn't do any harm, might help some Scouts, but that it was ridiculous for it to be Eagle-required. This DI&E MB is Maoist or Stalinist indoctrination IMO -- utterly ridiculous. Citizenship in the Community could have had a few requirements added to address an expanded view of "community" but creating a whole new MB -- much less making it Eagle-required -- is more social justice nonsense from the folks in Irving that have been destroying Scouting from within for the last decade or two.
    5 points
  13. In a day full of history making achievements for women and people of color, Boy Scout Troop 358 (PA) played its own critical role in the inauguration of 46th President Joe Biden and Madam Vice President Kamala Harris. "This year we knew it was going to be virtual, so we felt safe about applying. We applied and waited and we had to film a video. We filmed it at the Art Museum, something to represent the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the city of Philadelphia and the Boy Scouts and the church," explained Wallace. And, the video will now be seen all over the country, throughout Inaugu
    4 points
  14. I have been around the "legal system" for over 40 years and the only conclusion that I can make is that no one will know what will happen until it happens. Until this whole convoluted mess is adjudicated we just won't know. The only positive recourse, as I see it, is to keep our local units alive, support our districts and councils, and work hard to give the kids the best Scouting experience we can. This takes a lot of work and dedication in lieu of uncertainty. I am committed to helping do what is necessary to provide Scouting to every single young person who wants to be a part of this t
    4 points
  15. Most scouts I talk with don't get much out of the MB program as it currently exists. Anything that actually helps them learn a skill is appreciated by the scouts. Anything covered in school is considered a waste of time. Cit badges are all a bust. Shooting, climbing and watercraft badges are great. Camping is surprisingly neutral. They like pioneering if they get the chance to make something fun. First aid is appreciated, but they don't believe they'll ever need it. So, most of the eagle required badges are just hoops they need to jump through. But this is about a specific mb. I think it
    4 points
  16. I served many years on EBORs as the District rep. I think if your project write-up clearly stated how the project was to be funded, and it didn't violate any BSA policy for fundraising, you should be good to go. The funds were donated by family members. It doesn't matter what the source was, as long as it didn't infringe on the Council's FOS campaign for business contributions. Good luck, and congratulations in advance!
    4 points
  17. Good. Those who oppose the mere existence of this badge will cheer the delay. Those who want it done right will cheer that this was rushed and will now be properly vetted.
    4 points
  18. When I coached scouters developing their Woodbadge ticket, I spent most of my efforts on showing them how to set realistic goals. The goal that I had to contend with the most was getting all new scouts to first class in one year. I had to explain that in a boy run program, they don't have, or shouldn't have, that kind of control over the scouts. So, instead set the goal to develop a program where any scout of any age could earn First Class in one year if the scout chooses to make that their personal goal. It doesn't occur to many people that improving the program has more long term benef
    4 points
  19. This was a good week for our Ship. One Scout attained his Eagle rank and another attained his Quartermaster rank. The Quartermaster rank is very rare. And one of my scouts applied for the National Boatswain position. Weeks like this are a rare and special.
    4 points
  20. I doubt that it will, but it could really depend on the MBC for it. For instance, I have seen First Aid MBC's do great jobs and scouts get great value from it. I have also seen it run so badly that the scouts learned nothing about First Aid. One of the best things that happened to our Cub Scout den way back when...was when a Muslim scout joined and the scouts got to learn first hand about religious differences.
    4 points
  21. You are right that none of us at the unit level doing most of the work will be given a chance to provide input on this new merit badge (or on even if it is needed). That is the way it is. 2020 was a hard year on the organization with COVID-19 and the constant radio and TV ads looking for people harmed by the BSA to join a lawsuit. While my troop gained 2 scouts last year, it lost 5 of them due to COVID-19 restrictions. (Actually one was lost due to age out.) My troop did okay in weathering the storm. Myself and my co-volunteers put in a lot of work to make this happen. A number of other
    4 points
  22. Much of this discussion is being shaped by interpretations of why BSA National issued the statement that it did during the protests triggered by the death of Mr. Floyd. Reading that statement, I did not see any of the suggestions made in this thread that National was saying units or leaders or scouts are racist on a broad scale. What I focused on was the statement that BSA had not been sufficiently “brave” about issues surrounding race. I know that Scouting has had a complicated history regarding race issues, though it was not something that I had searched for information about before.
    4 points
  23. If the national BSA wanted to make a statement on racism, then why didn't they make a statement along the following lines... "Given the increase in racial tensions in the United States over the past year, the leadership of the national BSA wants to give thousands of Cub Scout and Scout BSA units credit for being positive models in our communities. A Scout is kind. A Scout is helpful. A Scout is Courteous. A Scout is Friendly. Every day scouts of all races, genders, etc join together to do activities in the outdoors and serve the communities they are a part of. We are proud of Scouts and a
    4 points
  24. In honor of Fred McMurray, one of those knots ought to be a sheepshank.
    4 points
  25. The real question is, what is the minimum number of adults to charter a unit? Four, in five positions. 1 x COR (dual hatted as a MC) 1 x CC 1 x Additional MC 1 x Unit Leader (SM, CM, etc.) Everyone else is icing on the cake
    4 points
  26. As usual, National missed the boat by not marketing the program as a natural for developing habits of DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION. They only have to show how the BSA Mission is to develop young people into ethical and moral decisions based from the Oath and Law. But no, National is following the politically correct route and setting an image of making change where none is required. I wonder how many even know their Vision and Mission. I have many stories of scouts and parents telling how the activities or our units changed their sons understanding of other's differences.
    4 points
  27. If the GSUSA had marketed their Gold Award half as effectively as they've promoted 'Thin Mints' and 'Do-Si-Do's' we wouldn't be in this mess.
    4 points
  28. I believe in the ideals. It's the people who work so hard at tearing them down, who seem to be gaining in influence, that erode faith... I, for one, am standing in the gap as best I can.
    3 points
  29. My dad was a retired Navy Chief. I can hear him saying, "don't call me Sir...I work for a living." (or worse)
    3 points
  30. The insurance companies dropped a couple more motions on the case docket on Friday. The first one, "HARTFORD AND CENTURY’S MOTION FOR AN ORDER (I) AUTHORIZING CERTAIN RULE 2004 DISCOVERY AND (II) GRANTING LEAVE FROM LOCAL RULE 3007-1(f) TO PERMIT THE FILING OF SUBSTANTIVE OMNIBUS OBJECTIONS" [D.I.1972], asks for an order allowing them to serve discovery on 1400 abuse claimants that they have already randomly selected, and then depose up to 100 claimants from that group seeking more information. Interesting excerpts from the motion and attachments... [a page with examples i
    3 points
  31. I am guilty of this...mostly because of convenience, and to thwart the parents who previously did this on behalf of their Scouts. That is, when I provided Scouts with MBC info, about 75% of the parents would make the call on their Scouts behalf to set it up. I agree with you, and will modify my behavior on this one...putting this back on the shoulders of the Scouts. What do you think about this idea? When Scout asks for counselor info for a MB, I will send an email to the Scout with about three counselors' contact info, and explicit instructions that this is their responsibili
    3 points
  32. So, tracking advancement is a different animal than listing each requirement for every award that a scout could earn. Frankly, one doesn't need any pre-printed material to track advancement. Lined paper or graph paper would do. The date goes in the left margin, the scout writes the award and requirement number, and the PL signs in the right margin. If all that matters is lists of req #s and PL's signatures, it could literally be as small as a membership card for each rank. The scout comes to the SM and says "Sir, I've worked my ticket for ___ rank and am ready for my conference and BoR."
    3 points
  33. It's been a few years since I had to deal with JTE, so maybe these complaints about the process are no longer valid. But, that won't stop me from writing them anyway :). 1. Even in the pre-scoutbook era, the BSA had almost all the information they needed to calculate JTE from recharter info, Tour Permits (remember those?), the service hour website (what was that called, service to america or something), etc. JTE should have been a 0 second effort for any unit serving vol other than entering data during the year. Turn in your recharter in December, wait three months for the BSA to rek
    3 points
  34. UK Scouts has been at it for what, 20 years now?
    3 points
  35. That's not it at all. The concept that belief does not necessarily equate to reality is pretty sound. While half the people I was talking about believe eeoc hurts their chances of getting a job, half the people believe it does not hirt their prospects. If we flip the "ringing endorsement" statement we can jist as easily say half the people believeing it doesn't hurt their chances is a ringing endorsement that systemic racism doesn't exist. All we are saying is that perception doesn't necessarily make a thing true. If it did my wife would always be right... Oh wait nevermind.
    3 points
  36. Lol, last question was "any other suggestions for improvement" I said something like, "Yes, don't send out a survey with a due date in the past, especially in light of the PR mess you are trying to deal with. That lack of diligence sends a bad message."
    3 points
  37. I hope this survey is not another non-transparent, manipulated post justification of a National decision. My $0.02
    3 points
  38. Here's an update from an Indian SM on the "longer" other side of the pond: Hope it helps to know we are not alone in our trials.
    3 points
  39. You painted a WIDE brush with your claim. Let's say that, for example, the Catholic Church charters a unit. You think they are going to support a scout leader as a homosexual? They shouldn't. Not because of what I or anyone else says/thinks on the subject, but that their statements of faith prohibit it. https://www.usccb.org/committees/laity-marriage-family-life-youth/homosexuality If BSA is going to say "You have to embrace our opinions on homosexuality", they are asking the church to go against their own teachings. That goes against the whole "supporting people of faith" that scouts purp
    3 points
  40. I am strongly leaning in the same direction. This may be my opporunity to find somewhere else to spend my time. I was hoping to do far more than 20 years as a volunteer, but this September is 20 years since I brought my first son to his first meeting and bought him his orange Tiger t-shirt and hat. Perhaps, it's time to move on. I was glad to see many of the recent membership policy changes. But it has been 20 years of issues starting first with 1999 Dale vs BSA. Now yet another self-inflicted issue ... and this one very political.
    3 points
  41. Value statements such as the above are usually not political. The daily application can be political. How it's taught especially now is usually very political ... especially now.
    3 points
  42. Welcome to the forum, @Scouted2000, and good question. It could help knowing what we're arguing about.
    3 points
  43. My last act in 2020 was to submit our recharter through the internet interface. I have to tie up some paperwork loose ends next week, but the process is almost done. So 2021 is a go for my Troop! I am looking forward to 2021, which could be my last as scoutmaster and one last chance to get the troop to be scout led. With COVID-19 cancelling district events, it will be a chance for scouts to plan their own calendar of events. I have 7 scouts working on their Eagle rank right now (over half of the troop), so the first 6 months of 2021 will be busy with eagle projects and finishing up requir
    3 points
  44. I know some have mentioned that no Scout has to earn Eagle. That is well and good but the Scouts that have stuck with our Troop through this terrible year do want to be Eagle. Some are moving along very well. What happens when a parent says NO to this merit badge and rank requirements? They say that it has no place in the BSA. They say they will not subject their Scout to this indoctrination agenda. But they have to if the Scout wants to become Eagle or the Scout suffers. Unfortunately I see this as a breaking point. The mighty oak will only bend so far before it snaps. If
    3 points
  45. I've said it before, and I'll say it again... @DuctTapefor National Commissioner!
    3 points
  46. @Owls_are_cool (and anyone in his position), as a general rule, if your son wants to take a break from scouting or leave it altogether ... let him. Don’t let current events be a tipping point one way or another. Regarding requiring this badge for Eagle. Nobody has to earn Eagle. No SM has to encourage a scout to earn it. I recommend that you take this as an opportunity to use advancement for something different: fun. Enjoy the hiking and camping and service projects and get scouts to Life rank. The few who want to be Eagle Scouts will find their way.
    3 points
  47. The problem is the appearance of indoctrination, not education. At the very least the MB has a lecturing knee-jerk feel to it. By the nature of the program's core values, Scouting has always been a safe place. Will a MB change that? AND, there will always be bad acting by unit leaders. Will a MB change that? The BSA already has the core values in place to guide and judge acceptable behavior toward other peoples differences with a proven program method to practice those values. The program shouldn't add more repetitive systematic bureaucracy that does nothing to improve the method of
    3 points
  48. We did videos on Boards of Review back when Scouts were trusted to do thm. We were lucky o have a day with years in community theater as a director. Still, it was trial and error. The "final" version proved not to be as good as the fourth "final" - "Thorns and Roses. The bad example, with the victim slding under the table and putting up a small whote flag was well reveived. It made the "roses" part more understandable. In a year, BSA decided adults must do it. Turns out, we needed to show the adults the same video. Why didn''t we do a PLC? Should have. We used to invite Scouts a
    3 points
  49. That's a topic in itself. If I had time, I'd link to it. The short answer: "no". The lack of outside leadership to force BSA and GS/USA to work in lock-step led to their mutual erosion. Reflecting on them, both organizations needed to do two things: 1. Enable its members to pursue the opposite members awards and share each other's camps. 2. Sign GS/USA on as a WOSM member so that they could be invited to World Jamborees and other events. This would have had to have been started 5 decades ago. It would have enabled sex segregation to continue, but with mutual growth and cooperati
    3 points
  50. In my opinion the source of GSUSA's anger, or sour grapes, is embedded in how the whole issue unfolded. I don't know if anyone remembers the lead up and roll out of this but at the time we were all being invited to attend "conversations" with Mike Surbaugh and others about the possibility of adding girls to scouts. We were told research was being done, that any changes would be given full discussion, everything was years down the line, etc. Surveys were going out that they wanted you to respond to, which many of us did. Unfortunately, they were all guided -- a strategy that BSA has utili
    3 points
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