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  2. DuctTape

    Jambalaya

    While you all are discussing okra (I never use it) I would suggest boneless thighs, much more flavor.
  3. malraux

    Ideas for Wood Badge gift

    I made custom patrol patches for the rest of my WB patrol using our patrol totem, but that's a specific sort of thing.
  4. DuctTape

    Methods in Scouting

    I agree with Parkman that the methods are largely complementary. As far as the main discussion, what I think is we must remember these are the methods, not the aims. I think someone earlier mentioned it, but it bears repeating. For example, the goal is not leadership development even though it sounds like it. Leadership development is a means (a method) for a scout to become able to do things for others. Advancement is not the outcome, but a means to encourage a scout to plan, prioritize, make choices to do things for themselves. Adult association is not to provide safety, but for scouts to see first hand how ethical adults treat each other, and the scouts. The adults set the example of how to best make ethical choices and helping others. Etc... When the methods get blurred with the purpose and aims; this begins the problems and a method or two slowly become the desired outcomes instead of the means to the end.
  5. Based on my understand - yes, the unit would be in compliance. However, I tihnk you have to look at why the BSA made this YPT rule. In essence, YPT rules exist for two main purposes 1) protect youth from situations where abuse is more likely to occur, & 2) protect adult volunteers from being in situations which are more likely to lead to accusations of abuse. I know there is a third reason - to protect the BSA in lawsuits, but for the sake of discussion, let's not focus on that at this time. I expect that the BSA leadership felt that situations with a female youth was alone with two adult males was a scenario where there was enough possibility of abuse or allegations of abuse that they created this rule. Imagine a scenario where a female adult leader is on premises but out of sight and two adult male leaders are alone with a single female youth. My understanding is that this would meet the YPT requirements. Yet, it doesn't do anything to minimize the possibilty or abuse or abuse allegations over the original rules. This is where I think that the BSA YPT rules are inherently unwiedly. The BSA would have been better taking a more progressive stand by staying with their original two-deep rules or by taking an approach where no individiual youth of a one gender can be alone with one or more adults of a different gender. i.e., two youth females and two adult males - OK. one youth female, one adult female, one adult male - OK. one youth female, one youth male, one adult female, one adult male - OK. one youth male, two adult females - not OK. etc.
  6. ParkMan

    Methods in Scouting

    I find the 8 methods are largely complimentary and go to building a diverse exerpience for Scouts. For example, if you focus mostly on advancement - then eventually Scouts get bored. If you focus mostly on outdoors - the same. So, I don't think I'd rank them - but instead ask myself - what's the best I can do in each? The strongest troops that I know seem to do well in all. Sure, not every one requires the same level of effort - but it doesn't mean it's any less important. For example, an active outdoor program requires lots of time whereas uniforming does not. Uniforming is more about setting the proper expectations early and simply reminding Scouts along the way. Sure, with uniforming you can put some energy into things like uniform closets and "Class B" uniforms - but even those don't require too much effort once they get going. I'd also suggest that focusing on all 8 of them provides opportunities for more scouts & adults to get involved. Scouts may get bored by high school with just patrol method, camping, and advancement. That's where the focus on personal growth, leadership development, and adult association pays off. Adult Assocation and outdoor program create opportunities for more adults to take on small rolls.
  7. malraux

    Blue & Gold cost

    $0, but our yearly pack fees are on the higher side.
  8. And "2 deep leadership" is not the same as "no one on one contact".
  9. Amazed at times how many scouters do not fully understand the concept of 2 deep leadership. We had a parent show up at 10pm last month during our chapter ordeal (one of 3 chapters at the camp that weekend) because the SM had told him that they only had one adult there from the troop and had to have 2 deep leadership. Between the 3 chapters, along with lodge advisors, there were easily 20 or more adults, not to mention the adults going through ordeal. Imagine how unwieldy things like ordeals and such would become if every scout had to have 2 adults from his troop present.
  10. walk in the woods

    Blue & Gold cost

    $0 and we also don't collect dues. Pack typically provides entree (e.g. fried chicken from Walmart). Families fill in sides and desserts. Any extras depend on the success of fund raising.
  11. Eagle1993

    Blue & Gold cost

    $0 We have a pizza and pool party. We do charge $55 in pack dues each year and raise money through popcorn sales.
  12. Michigan special needs troop of adult scouts are struggling to find volunteers A tradition...back in 1964 https://fox17online.com/2019/02/17/special-needs-genesee-county-man-becomes-eagle-scout-at-age-61/ https://www.mlive.com/news/flint/2019/02/special-needs-michigan-man-becomes-eagle-scout-at-61.html?utm_campaign=mlive_sf&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social
  13. PinkPajamas

    Blue & Gold cost

    My stepson's pack in Michigan in was $25-35 a person. I believe the scout's fee was covered but I could be wrong. It was catered at a banquet hall. Our pack is having theirs today, it's a potluck, so people can adjust the cost to fit their budget. The pack covered the cost of renting a pavilion at a local park.
  14. shortridge

    Snow Days?

    My daughter’s school has had two snow days so far. We had two in-service days classified as weather contingencies, so students now have to come in those days - but don’t have to stay longer into the summer. Fingers crossed that’ll be it.
  15. SSScout

    Blue & Gold cost

    ""It Depends"". Pot luck? Catered by La Rive Gauche ? It is up to the Pack, depending on their bank account, their desire for intimacy, simplicity, whether it's a "par-tay" to celebrate BSA's birthday or another Pack Meeting to hand out rank and awards. AOL crossover? Magician? Clown in town? Scales and Tales? Charge a small fee, a large fee, sell a lot of popcorn, beefsticks and campcards and the Pack pays for it? One year our ACM went shopping, found an Out Back whose manager was very Scout friendly and who evidently needed some "numbers" for his district rating. He catered our B&G FOR FREE ! Strip steaks, potatoes, salad, rolls, butter and jam, chocolate brownies.... we had to provide beverages... mucho leftovers, little cleanup. "It Depends".
  16. SSScout

    Ideas for Wood Badge gift

    The Beading Ceremony should be enough of a "present" present. I like the idea of an antique(!) Cub book and photo bookmark, but if it were me, I would present it privately, after the ceremony.
  17. John-in-KC

    Snow Days?

    My district has NO snow days built in. They had been scheduled to release the Friday of Memorial Day weekend. We are now up to 6 June. At one area camp, staff week may be impacted. At another, First session will be four days in.
  18. ParkMan

    Blue & Gold cost

    Our pack had a financial model where Scouts paid for events as they go. So, one year we decided to have our B&G catered. It ended up being about $5-10 per person. We had no objections from families. In fact, most of our families told us that they preferred paying a little bit to avoid having to pull together a potluck dinner. I think you really just have to know your pack families. $20-$40 to attend the B&G wasn't going to break any of our families, so we traded some convenience over saving money. Worked well for us. Had we been a pack with a different set of families, maybe we wouldn't have done that.
  19. The Latin Scot

    Blue & Gold cost

    Charging people to attend B&G?!? We have always had very lovely B&G events, but they have never been so expensive as to require additional costs from the family. For example, in our pack, the committee buys a dozen big lasagnas from Costco, and the leaders and a few willing parents each take one or two to cook and bring to the venue just before the dinner. A few bags of rolls and some easily thrown-together salads complete a filling, pleasant, affordable meal that boys this age enjoy as much as their parents do. Decorations are simple - blue and yellow tablecloths and eating ware, boy-made centerpieces, some pictures on the walls, etc. The entire cost to feed about 130 people last night was under $200, well within our modest budget without needing to charge families. If you can find any way to cut costs and make it easier for all of your families to attend, I recommend it with all my heart. The point of the Blue and Gold is to celebrate the history and purpose of Scouting, not just to put on a show. Make your presentations meaningful and your program relevant, and even the humblest meal can be better than a feast for the families who enjoy it.
  20. I think this is a separate issue, however. A unit doesn’t have to supply two-deep leadership for a broader activity like an MBU that allows individual Scout registration. (See also: den chief training, OA events.) So that doesn’t affect your 16yo Scout. To be open to female Scouts, the event organizers would just have to make sure there is an adult female 21+ registered leader present and all the other YP rules are being followed.
  21. dkurtenbach

    Methods in Scouting

    Far too often these days, I see troops and adult leaders who are really only conscious of one method: Advancement. Advancement as one of the eight Methods is the concept of youth gaining skill and confidence by overcoming progressively more difficult challenges. But for many, understanding the theoretical underpinnings for the Scouting program set out in the eight Methods is largely unnecessary because all the Methods are represented in specific rank and merit badge requirements and advancement procedures. Advancement is now understood by many to be a single complete, practical checklist for achieving the Scouting outcomes of citizenship, character, and fitness. The problem is that the specific rank requirements, many of which are "one and done," merely offer examples of what the eight Methods seek to teach. Advancement requirements do not provide the complete Scouting education, which only comes through the conscious week-by-week application of those Methods by leaders who understand the big picture.
  22. shortridge

    Blue & Gold cost

    I’d never heard of charging to attend a B&G, to be honest. My experience has always been a giant potluck in a donated hall with donated placemats; dens do centerpieces and nut/mint cups; pack covers plates, cups, utensils, and napkins. Making it a moneymaker would leave a bad taste in my mouth, frankly. If you need to charge, cover your costs and leave it at that.
  23. John-in-KC

    Methods in Scouting

    This is MY rank order... The Ideals The patrol method The outdoors Leadership development Personal growth Association with adults Advancement The uniform
  24. John-in-KC

    First Women

    As it happens, my home council, Heart of America, appears to be one of the first out of the starting blocks with Arrow women. Tamegonit #147 held a special winter induction
  25. FireStone

    Blue & Gold cost

    What's a common/reasonable fee to charge parents, scouts, and siblings to attend the Blue & Gold dinner? I think my Pack is on the expensive end, but before I mention what we're charging I want to get some unbiased opinions. Let me know what your Pack charges/charged and what you think is reasonable.
  26. Yesterday
  27. PARENTinSCOUT

    Youth Protection Policy Does Not Prohibit Retaliation

    Yes, I have contacted the relevant people in the district and Council specific to the policy update. Their usual response is nothing, and I assume that it is because they know I am part of the "hot-potato" issue with a troop in their district and they don't want to be near it. It is fair to be concerned that someone like me is seeking attention on a wide policy issue in order to get ahead on a small local conflict. I presented my argument to the Council (council executive) that BSA Youth Protection policy clearly states that reporting process should reflect community standard (i.e. local and state laws). In California where I live, all reporting must be handled confidentially and without duress to the reporter. If reporter conducted him/herself improperly or with malice, that must be handled separately and away from the safety issue of the protected party/child. I believe all 50 states have non-retaliation language in their reporting procedures. If so, then why not BSA? You can't underestimate the value of a policy in a hand of a parent like me when we talk to a leader. They do back down and comply when they are not aware that certain policy exists. This language needs to be in YPT.
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  • Posts

    • While you all are discussing okra (I never use it) I would suggest boneless thighs, much more flavor. 
    • I made custom patrol patches for the rest of my WB patrol using our patrol totem, but that's a specific sort of thing.
    • I agree with Parkman that the methods are largely complementary. As far as the main discussion, what I think is we must remember these are the methods, not the aims. I think someone earlier mentioned it, but it bears repeating. For example, the goal is not leadership development even though it sounds like it. Leadership development is a means (a method) for a scout to become able to do things for others. Advancement is not the outcome, but a means to encourage a scout to plan, prioritize, make choices to do things for themselves. Adult association is not to provide safety, but for scouts to see first hand how ethical adults treat each other, and the scouts. The adults set the example of how to best make ethical choices and helping others. Etc... When the methods get blurred with the purpose and aims; this begins the problems and a method or two slowly become the desired outcomes instead of the means to the end.
    • Based on my understand - yes, the unit would be in compliance. However, I tihnk you have to look at why the BSA made this YPT rule.  In essence, YPT rules exist for two main purposes 1) protect youth from situations where abuse is more likely to occur, & 2) protect adult volunteers from being in situations which are more likely to lead to accusations of abuse.  I know there is a third reason - to protect the BSA in lawsuits, but for the sake of discussion, let's not focus on that at this time.  I expect that the BSA leadership felt that situations with a female youth was alone with two adult males was a scenario where there was enough possibility of abuse or allegations of abuse that they created this rule. Imagine a scenario where a female adult leader is on premises but out of sight and two adult male leaders are alone with a single female youth.  My understanding is that this would meet the YPT requirements.  Yet, it doesn't do anything to minimize the possibilty or abuse or abuse allegations over the original rules. This is where I think that the BSA YPT rules are inherently unwiedly.  The BSA would have been better taking a more progressive stand by staying with their original two-deep rules or by taking an approach where no individiual youth of a one gender can be alone with one or more adults of a different gender.  i.e., two youth females and two adult males - OK.  one youth female, one adult female, one adult male - OK.  one youth female, one youth male, one adult female, one adult male - OK.  one youth male, two adult females - not OK.  etc.
       
    • I find the 8 methods are largely complimentary and go to building a diverse exerpience for Scouts.  For example, if you focus mostly on advancement - then eventually Scouts get bored.  If you focus mostly on outdoors - the same.  So, I don't think I'd rank them - but instead ask myself - what's the best I can do in each? The strongest troops that I know seem to do well in all. Sure, not every one requires the same level of effort - but it doesn't mean it's any less important.  For example, an active outdoor program requires lots of time whereas uniforming does not.  Uniforming is more about setting the proper expectations early and simply reminding Scouts along the way.  Sure, with uniforming you can put some energy into things like uniform closets and "Class B" uniforms -  but even those don't require too much effort once they get going. I'd also suggest that focusing on all 8 of them provides opportunities for more scouts & adults to get involved.  Scouts may get bored by high school with just patrol method, camping, and advancement.  That's where the focus on personal growth, leadership development, and adult association pays off.  Adult Assocation and outdoor program create opportunities for more adults to take on small rolls.  
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