Jump to content

All Activity

This stream auto-updates     

  1. Past hour
  2. Eagledad

    Regulating Fall Risks and Nature

    Good post. My wife broke her ankle on a trail hike near Hana Hawaii. During a frank discussion with the doctor who was treating her, he said his bread and butter where hiking injuries. Tourists come from the mainland with a, what he called, a "Disney Land" frame of mind. Meaning that most tourist from the US mainland are accustomed to sanitized risks. There are many danger signs everywhere in our culture, but liability has forced us to add additional safety with equipment like railings, paved paths, hand holds, and so on, to reduce the risk of accidents. We have become so accustomed to low accident rates as a result of the signs and additional safety that we don't respect the risk they prevent. So, when we tourist from the mainland visit areas outside of the mainland, we assume a higher level of security that isn't there. Thus, the result is a lot of accidents. Our doctor said the Hana emergency rescue professionals risk their lives retrieving many fatalities every year because hikers ignore the many signs that say "Stay on the trail", or "Do not go past this point". Hawaii is a volcanic island of very rough and very sharp rocky terrain, so falling even just a few feet causes a serious enough injury that he said often leads to fatalities because of the time required for rescuers to reach the location. As a youth in scouts, I learned a lot about recognizing dangers in the woods and environments that we visited, and the importance of training for those dangers. I mentioned recently that while I was already a petty good water skier in my youth, the Water Ski MB taught me a lot about boat safety while pulling a skier. I taught those same safety habits to my friends and family over the years. I agree with qwazse that scouting should be the go to program for learning the dangers of the environments we visit and provide the safety training for those environments. Barry
  3. If there is one thing I'm a stickler for, it's standards and requirements. " I did all the things you're supposed to do to become an Eagle." No you didn't. Plain and simple. Perhaps someone should ask this scout which other requirements he feels are optional, or how comfortable he would feel if someone else was awarded the rank having not completed a requirement that he did. Eagle project? Number of merit badges?
  4. Not specifically detailed in this story but I feel like the Scouters may have failed him by not encouraging him to get his Life two months earlier than he did. It certainly should have been common knowledge, and the Scouters should have been well aware, that they had a 17 yr old Star scout that NEEDED to get to Life by a very specific date if he had any hope of earning Eagle.
  5. This Life scout did not receive the rank of Eagle Scout due to a Technicality. He did not achieve the rank of Eagle Scout because he did not meet all the requirements to earn the rank of Eagle.
  6. That is so true...Mr Stockton likely has compensation in the $200k (or better range) and he punts when there is a hard decision to make. The requirements are very straightforward and clear. The appeal should have been denied at the local council with the advice that if they wanted to, feel free to pursue with National.
  7. Well if he learned anything in Scouting, maybe it will be to follow rules and meet deadlines. This learning experience should prepare him for RPI and an engineering career. My $0.02
  8. Ageism raises its ugly head again. But, some pro's should grow a pair, and speak plainly with a sentence like, "He didn't meet the requirements for Eagle, but he's a fine Life scout." No passing the buck to National. Call a spade a spade and then give the reporter your FOS speech and a pledge card. Don't feel bad for any Life scout. Ever. This scout could proudly announce that on any resume or bio sketch. I disagree. Always encourage a boy at any rank to take on any service project he desires. It's a pity this fella didn't donate twice as much and take on two service projects in the spring. I hope that now that he doesn't have the burden of that ungainly Eagle workbook, he and his fellow freshmen will do another one this fall. A scout who holds a position of responsibility in his troop, for any period of time, should be respected. Especially when he is at the end of his tenure and it would get him any bling.
  9. Today
  10. Rules are rules. He was too old when he became a Life Scout--didn't have six months left. They should have told him at that time, and not have him waste his time and money on an Eagle Project.
  11. What some may call a Technicality, others will agree that the reason is not being able to fulfill the requirements..."Technically" 2 requirements of the 7 1 - Be active in your troop, team, crew, or ship for a period of at least six months after you have achieved the rank of Life Scout. 4 - While a Life Scout, serve actively in your unit for a period of six months in one or more of the following positions of responsibility. List only those positions served after your Life board of review date. *** Boy Scout troop. Patrol leader, assistant senior patrol leader, senior patrol leader, Venture patrol leader, troop guide, Order of the Arrow troop representative, den chief, scribe, librarian, historian, quartermaster, junior assistant Scoutmaster, chaplain aide, instructor, webmaster, or Leave No Trace trainer. Details in the article https://amp.lohud.com/amp/975027002
  12. qwazse

    Regulating Fall Risks and Nature

    Once again, we are losing sight of relative risk. Eight fatal accidents since 1992, a 10-fold increase in visitors. It sounds like the rate of visitor fatalities is plummeting. Kudos to the rangers' hard work. I think it is important for the public to know of fatalities that have occurred in a given area. High traffic areas need to be hardened. But, I think we need to soberly recognize that with more people comes more adverse events ... albeit fewer per person. For our scouts and scouters, I think there is something to "safe photography" training. We need to show them how Bear Grylls gets some of those cliffhanger shots without actually hanging from a cliff (at least not every time).
  13. Came across this article, posting in issues and politics. Just wondering what the group thinks about it? https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/14/nyregion/kaaterskill-falls-catskills-deaths-instagram.html?action=click&module=Editors Picks&pgtype=Homepage RichardB
  14. The only two caveats I would have for going an "alternative route" would be to have a serious review of your Crossover/AOL ceremony to ensure that it is appropriate and does not use or promote stereotyping of N/A culture; and, make sure that any regalia is as spot on as possible for your local area. The ubiquitous 'ribbon shirt' is certainly okay in a pinch or where the local custom (due to climate, etc.) is to go bare-chested and wear a just a breachclout - use your judgement and common sense. Some of the worst offenders I've seen on things like YouTube is when all four Principals appear in full blown double trailer war bonnets - just because they may be cool to wear, doesn't mean you should. Again, research, research, research! Something like that would constitute a legitimate complaint by a N/A tribe/group. If you can't quite come up with appropriate headgear for various reasons (cost, availability of supplies, etc.), better not to wear anything than the glaringly wrong thing. OK - Off my soapbox :)
  15. Thanks Oldscout448 for the 'recap' of what was discussed at NOAC. I'm pretty sure National gets a few e-mails monthly with respect to "cultural appropriation" - I suspect, given how some Lodges approach AIA/Ceremonies, etc., some of the complaints are legit, but I also suspect that some are from people just trying to make a point, as it were. As some have stated, it should have been more of a development of a set of rules and guidelines rather than entirely eliminating what in most cases can be a powerful experience. Our Chapter is currently on 'summer hiatus', but once things get rolling again in September, I'm hoping we can come up with a "Standing Bear Productions, LLC" solution without upsetting that applecart known as the Lodge. I suspect they'll have no issue with it - our Lodge Advisor was quite enthusiastic about wanting to get more AIA in the Lodge, so I don't anticipate an issue. It might be more convincing the Packs it's still okay to use our "splinter business entity" for their ceremonies
  16. Eagle1993

    NATIONAL POLICY: AOL and Crossover Ceremonies

    I don’t doubt there were complaints complaints (just go to powwows.com forums and search on Boy Scouts or Order of Arrow). Instead of outright banning the ceremony I wish they setup some rules or guidelines along the lines of working with a tribe. There is very little taught about NA culture in our school systems. OA and aspects of Boy Scouts should be used to teach accurate aspects of their culture (both past and current). If a OA chapter doesn’t want to be part of this... no problem. But if an OA chapter and tribe work together, it would be a powerful experience. My limited OA experience along with several experiences in BSA exposed me to NA culture much more than any other aspect in my life. I’m not an expert and there were probably some errors but it did make me more of a knowledgeable advocate of Indian Affairs. My college had an Indian Mascot. I was told by friends and college officials that the dance and “costume” were authentic. Upon first glance of the “dance” I could see it was pure Hollywood and the costume was nothing I saw at local powwows... it was Sioux. I marched in protest of that mascot as my BSA and OA background helped teach me respect for NA. OA and BSA may not be perfect... but I do see the NA representation as a benefit to both youth and NAs if done correctly. I wish and hope they find a balanced approach going forward
  17. Hi @Saltface & @walk in the woods, Thanks for the thoughts. I do get your points here. My personal feelings on the issue don't impact my perspective here. Truth be told, I really dislike it when Scout leaders freelance on the rules in Scouting. The Scoutmaster of my son's troop does that too much for my liking. In fact, I'm stepping down as CC because I'm just tired of fighting with Scouters who want to apply only the rules that suit their needs. Yet, I see a place for organized dissent. I get the point that Scouts should follow rules, and I really do agree. But, as long as it's done safely, I see a valid role for adults to advocate for causes that are important to their communities. I saw in the earlier posts such an organized dissent. We can certainly disagree on whether it's appropriate for a troop to openly lobby for a rules change by openly challenging the BSA. I respect your perspectives here. All the best.
  18. Oldscout448

    NATIONAL POLICY: AOL and Crossover Ceremonies

    I have been reluctant to reply as I was unable to attend NOAC. I did however have a long conversation at last weekends Vigil inductions with a friend who has been performing / advising ceremonies for over 40 years, and has often served as a NOAC judge as well. It seems there was a one hour seminar devoted to this subject, that ran almost three hours. So as best as my sleep deprived brain can recall... National was receiving 4-6 phone calls or emails a month complaining of cultural theft. That's 48-72 per year out of how many thousands of AoL ceremonies? But this is National. They seem to panic at any negative press now days. So they decided to rework it and take it out of local hands. The first draft was written by the two guys who rewrote the Brotherhood Ceremony a few years back. Then it was handed off to the Cub Exec Committee. Which is why, I guess, it is such a " lame, corny " skit. As well as a rather shameless plug for expensive high adventure camps. The attendees were assured that there is no plan to change anything else. Callouts, Ordeal, Brotherhood, and Vigil will remain as they are. Of course there was " no plan to let girls into Boy Scouts " either. Call me cynical Oldscout PS. So far, every scout on my team wants to go with a Standing Bear Productions LLC model
  19. Longhaired_Mac

    Committee Meetings

    I apologize for suggesting a course of action that circumvents appropriate protocol. Obviously I'm ignorant of the Committee side of things and therefore shouldn't have put those 2 cents worth out there.
  20. RememberSchiff

    Membership Removal Procedures Booklet

    Again I'm not a lawyer, but is there implicit defamation? Say one applies to another youth organization and is asked, 1. Have you ever been rejected to serve in a volunteer organization? 2. If so why? I imagine the honest answers, Yes and I dunno would only add another rejection.
  21. qwazse

    Eagle Reference Letters

    One of the better references that I've read was from a scout's older sister!
  22. Yesterday
  23. malraux

    Can you not give it 100%?

    It ramps up from the end of bear through boy scouts pretty steadily. Webelos are expected to camp as a patrol away from parents and to do so more frequently. Then scouts BSA is much more independent and camping oriented. I suspect part of the problem is finding a program that meets the needs of all the different groups across the country.
  24. Chris1

    OA Pocket Flap wear

    Check with the Lodge about their policy, but make sure you talk to someone who ACTUALLY knows the rules, not just a fanatic. There is a bunch of false information floating around. Find out if the flap was only available to those who went, or to anyone as a way to promote NOAC or raise funds. If it was only for attendees then I would say no. If it was a fund raiser, or other (which you seem to indicate) then it might be ok. If it were an "earned" flap, our lodge has had a number over the years, then I would suggest not wearing it.
  25. Chisos

    Religous observeance

    I'll echo what T2Eagle said. While the summer camp we went to last year did have a priest come in on Sunday, not everywhere does that. When I did Wood Badge, I had to make it back to town for the last Mass of the day (fortunately we have a 9pm Sunday available!)
  26. Thanks @qwazse! I appreciate the words and encouragement. In our Cub Scout pack we did something similar. As a result, one of the largest GSUSA troops in our area grew out of that. My daughter's first experience in Girl Scouting was in that troop. They really were a separate GSUSA troop and BSA pack. However, it reinforced for me that kids are kids. Thank you!
  27. Chris1

    Religous observeance

    In my Council we have to Wood badge courses each year one is Thursday through Saturday the other Friday through Sunday. Many IOLS courses or Friday Saturday While others are Saturday Sunday. Our last Council camporee there were religious services for Catholic Protestant and Jewish. We have significant LDS. After the LDS church leave in 2020, We shall see if these offerings diminish.
  28. Jameson76

    Eagle Reference Letters

    Actually the application does call out that the candidate does need to - List the names of individuals who know you personally and would be willing to provide a recommendation on your behalf. And from the G2A Must list all six (five if not employed). If not affiliated with an organized religion, then the parent or guardian provides this reference. There are no restrictions on who the Scout may list for his two other references. He can list anyone he chooses, including parents or guardians not previously listed, other relatives, Scout leaders including those from his unit, or other Scouts and friends. There is no requirement that any of the references be 21 years of age or older.
  1. Load more activity
  • Posts

    • Good post. My wife broke her ankle on a trail hike near Hana Hawaii. During a frank discussion with the doctor who was treating her, he said his bread and butter where hiking injuries. Tourists come from the mainland with a, what he called, a "Disney Land" frame of mind. Meaning that most tourist from the US mainland are accustomed to sanitized risks. There are many danger signs everywhere in our culture, but liability has forced us to add additional safety with equipment like railings, paved paths, hand holds, and so on, to reduce the risk of accidents. We have become so accustomed to low accident rates as a result of the signs and additional safety that we don't respect the risk they prevent. So, when we tourist from the mainland visit areas outside of the mainland, we assume a higher level of security that isn't there. Thus, the result is a lot of accidents. Our doctor said the Hana emergency rescue professionals risk their lives retrieving many fatalities every year because hikers ignore the many signs that say "Stay on the trail", or "Do not go past this point". Hawaii is a volcanic island of very rough and very sharp rocky terrain, so falling even just a few feet causes a serious enough injury that he said often leads to fatalities because of the time required for rescuers to reach the location. As a youth in scouts, I learned a lot about recognizing dangers in the woods and environments that we visited, and the importance of training for those dangers. I mentioned recently that while I was already a petty good water skier in my youth, the Water Ski MB taught me a lot about boat safety while pulling a skier. I taught those same safety habits to my friends and family over the years. I agree with qwazse that scouting should be the go to program for learning the dangers of the environments we visit and provide the safety training for those environments. Barry
    • If there is one thing I'm a stickler for, it's standards and requirements. " I did all the things you're supposed to do to become an Eagle." No you didn't.  Plain and simple. Perhaps someone should ask this scout which other requirements he feels are optional, or how comfortable he would feel if someone else was awarded the rank having not completed a requirement that he did.  Eagle project?  Number of merit badges?    
    • Not specifically detailed in this story but I feel like the Scouters may have failed him by not encouraging him to get his Life two months earlier than he did. It certainly should have been common knowledge, and the Scouters should have been well aware, that they had a 17 yr old Star scout that NEEDED to get to Life by a very specific date if he had any hope of earning Eagle.
    • This Life scout did not receive the rank of Eagle Scout due to a Technicality.  He did not achieve the rank of Eagle Scout because he did not meet all the requirements to earn the rank of Eagle. 
    • That is so true...Mr Stockton likely has compensation in the $200k (or better range) and he punts when there is a hard decision to make.  The requirements are very straightforward and clear.  The appeal should have been denied at the local council with the advice that if they wanted to, feel free to pursue with National.
  • Who's Online (See full list)

  • Popular Contributors

×