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Everything posted by Eagle94-A1

  1. I did 6 years as a DL, and was burned out. While the first 2 groups were a joy to be with as I had parents interested in helping their kids, so they stayed around and had fun too. Youngest son's Tiger den was a challenge. No one was willing to step up and help out. The parents there stayed glued to their phones. Grandparents there either had health issues, or also stayed glued to their phone.
  2. Same CO...multiple CORs

    After I left the troop I grew up in, I stayed in contact. Don't know how, but they had 3 different CORs: one for the pack, one for the troop, and one for the crew. I could understand how there were 2 different CORs since the pack was one number, and the troop left a CO and kept the original number. So I could see how that got overlooked. But the crew had the same number as the troop. What was funny was the SM of the troop was the COR/CC of the crew, and the crew advisor was the COR/CC of the troop.
  3. Sad but true. I had to team up youth and adult staffers for IOLS. Adult staffer was to keep the adult participants in line if needed.
  4. We had a crossover the week before OA elections. They only knew one person on the ballot, their Den Chief. Out of the six or seven eligible, the former Den Chief was the only one elected because of all the new Cross Overs.
  5. Every Scout's journey is different. I spent 5 years as a Life Scout. I admit some of it was "the fumes," i.e perfume and car fumes. School and work also played a part too. But until Senior year of HS, every Friday nite, unless on an JROTC trip, was Scout night. And while I may not have made all the camping trips, I made a good number of them. I'd say on par with folks today. But for the most part, I was having too much fun and not worried about MBs needed for Eagle. Instead of summer camp, I was doing jamboree, HA in Canada, going through advance training, essentially having fun. I didn't want to do the boring "paperpushing" MBs of the Citizenships and Personal Management. I wanted fun stuff like Lifesaving and Motorboating. And I have seen a few Scouts liek that. One thing i have found that keeps them active is giving the Scouts ownership of the troop. A bunch of the Scouts who made Eagle were like me; active and having fun, but not focused on advancement until 17 hits them. But I have seen a bunch who are not active, sometimes even quit for a while, only to come back and push to get Eagle. heck even know of one who tried to petition national for an extension due to sports taking up all his free time. Thankfully he didn't get it as I know a bunch of athletes. who MADE the time to stay somewhat active and earn Eagle
  6. Understood. I know once upon a time, when Scout was not a rank, the SM could award Scout at the Crossover, as well as waive the 2 months tenure for Tenderfoot. Don't have my original 1979 edition handbook, but the 1988 printing only has the 2 months tenure being waived listed.
  7. Pretty much. One of the challenges is that BSA changes policies and procedures so often, folks cannot keep up. Best example is the December 2016 Cub Scout advancement changes. We still have folks using the June 2015 - December 2016 advancement because that is in the book. Another example can be the various MB requirements. How many times did they change Cooking MB in a 5 year period? Another challenge is old age, Memory goes as ya age OK I am using my 1987 printing of the 1977 ed. of the OA HB. The Unit Election Procedure starts on page 48. On page 51, procedure 6 is the following 6. The election team determines the maximum number of names a voter may list on his ballot by reading the illustrated chart [ note chart is on page 53, E94], as follows * Find the number of eligible for election in the first column (Note: Boys who are already members of the Order of the Arrow must not be counted as eligible) [sic, E94] * The maximum number of names a voter may list on his ballot is given by the number immediately to the right in the second column. Example" Voters in a unit with 9 boys eligible may list no more than 5 names on their ballots. * If there are more than 20 eligible in the unit, one-half the number eligible may be listed on each ballot. If the number eligible is uneven, round the figure upward before dividing by 2. The chart on page 53 looks something like this ELECTION CHART Number of Boys Eligible Maximum Names on Ballot 1 or 2 1 3 or 4 2 5 or 6 3 7 or 8 4 9 or 10 5 11 or 12 6 13 or 14 7 15 or 16 8 17 or 18 9 19 or 20 10 21 or more Ratio of 1 to 2 (round up if number eligible is odd.) Regarding blank ballots according to Procedure 7 on page 52 they count. Only way to not vote and not hurt anyone was to "abstain by not turning in a ballot at all, and this will not affect the final result." The 1990 edition of the OA Guide for Officers and Advisers repeats the above verbatim on pages 38 through 41. I think I got the book in 1993, but no later than 1995 when I became a chapter adviser.
  8. Give me a few days to find my Guide to Elections and Inductions book from that time frame. Since it is out of date, it may be in storage.
  9. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    Outdoorsman Activity badge, which use to be required for AOL when I was a scout had such a requirement #4 With your parent or guardian, camp overnight with a Boy Scout troop. Sleep in a tent that you have helped pitch.
  10. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    Part of the reason for the AOL is to prepare them for Boy Scouts. Engaging with a troop has been one of the requirements since as long as I can remember, and if memory serves, one of the original requirements. Heck I remember when a man had to be the WDL to simulate Boy Scouts more closely. One of the challenges i've found is that Scouts do not stay around for long if they do NOT engage with a troop. Give you an example. For the past 2 years, the Webelos from our feeder troop have not camped with us. One den visited us at camp for a few hours and left, the other den used the joint Scouting for Food activity for the outdoor requirement. 4/5s remain of the first den, and 1of 3 remain from the second den. Contrast that with camping and it is much higher. Out of oldest son's den 2 of the 4 camped with the troop, and hte other two transfered over because of them. Middle son's den had 4 camp with us, and all four are still here.
  11. Yes it is only mediocre if you let it. And I know how much work is involved in getting a chapter back on its feet. Done that twice, and started a new chapter once. And I may have to do it again since I found out the Chapter Advisor stepped down. As for me being negative, kinda hard to see something you have devoted all of your adult life falling apart. feel like I am the Dutch boy putting fingers and toes in the dikes. District committee is non-existant. Folks are expressing their displeasure with national's policies by stepping away. Folks believe that national is not listening to them, and that the organization as a whole is not the same one they signed up to be members of. we are talking folks with 10, 20, 30, 60 years in the organization. And not having a full time DE, someone who can devote all of his energies into recruiting folks hurts the district too. And I know I am burning out, which is also contributing to the negativity. I am tired of being put in charge of things at the last minute. 2016 camporee was dumped on me 2 months before it was scheduled. Took a year to plan 2017 camporee, then WHAM, one week before a CS activity is dumped on me at the same time and place. Ditto with Cubmobile the past 2 years and Scouting for Food.
  12. Prior to 1996 Scouts could vote for 1/2 of those eligible. If it was an odd number, you rounded up to the next even number. So if 2 Scouts were eligible, you could only vote for 1. If 3 or 4 Scouts were eligible, you could vote for 2. Etc. Still needed 50% of the unit there, and still needed 50% of the vote. And abstentions counted. I remember one troop that had an odd number eligible. SM divided the troop into 1/3s and told them who to vote for. That was the only time I saw everyone eligible get elected into the OA prior to the current policy. And I found out the next year when he was bragging because he no longer had to rig the elections so that everyone could get in.
  13. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    DON'T GIVE THEM ANY IDEAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ( and yep, I shouting a warning at ya ) Seriously, having worked for National supply an knowing that many of the folks have little to no experience in the program, I can see someone coming up with this idea and implementing it in order to make a few bucks. Heck it may be one of their "nonuniform" items that folks will wear with their uniform.
  14. If memory serves, doesn't the Webelos have to talk to the SM for Scouting Adventure? That could be the SMC. I remember earning the Scout badge a week after Crossing Over AND getting the time requirements between Scout and Tenderfoot waived due to AOL. My old troop would do the investiture ceremony within 3 weeks of the Webelos Crossing Over, as the troop neckers were handmade and not readily available at times. Sadly I do not believe many WDLs are doing their job properly. They are treating Webelos as Wolves and Bears still, when it should be the transition phase. I'm seeing it with one of the packs that feeds into us; their Webelos are just are not ready for Boy Scouts when they cross over. And from posts here and elsewhere, this seems like a nationwide problem.
  15. Yes, the OA has lost its luster. Started back when you could vote for whomever you wanted instead of 50% of those eligible. When I found out a SM rigged an election so that everyone could get in, I was ticked. I don't know what happened after I became inactive with the OA due to Cubs Scouts, but my chapter is dead in the water. My oldest, who has been eligible for some time now, has no interest in the OA.
  16. Lions now an official Cub Scout rank and program

    {sarcasm on} GEEE i didn't see that coming. {sarcasm off} If you look at the current membership apps that were created in July 2017, Lions is an official program. And Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts is gender neutral.
  17. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    I think that is the major problem. Webelos IS suppose to be the transition period between Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts. They are suppose to be treated as Boy Scouts but still under the direction of an adult Den Leader, and if lucky a Den Chief. My den growing up and my two older sons dens were just like that, and making the transition was/is smooth. Youngest son's den is also like that. I think this is where many WDLs screw up. They keep treating the Webelos as full blown Cub Scouts, and not in transition. They are not upping the expectations, and are still in "Do Your Best" mode. Had a nice chat with the SM and a few other adults about the differences between the Webelos we are getting from one pack, and the Webelos from another pack. Told them that any Webelos with Arrow Of Light should be able to automatically earn their Scout Rank the night they cross over since Scout Rank and the Scouting Adventure Activity badge is 99.99999% identical. Even made a bet on it with the SM. Which reminds me, I need to remind the SM to make me a "Death by Chocolate" cake on the next camp out that he owes me. Because the feeder pack's Webelos dens are not fully transitioning, I am considering going back to WDL once youngest crosses over in December. Out of 9 who crossed over in April, 4 remain, and 2 don't seem to be interested in the program. And out of the 3 we got in December, only 1 has been to any meetings or camp outs.
  18. Fat Tuesday Dinners

    Jealous. Gambinos is awesome. I lived 1/2 from their Metairie bakery. Two of my cousins worked at their Gentilly bakery. My cousins stole their recipes and made goodies for Christmas.
  19. Fat Tuesday Dinners

    Out of curiousity, which bakery and how much was the shipping? Or did you go local? I ask because I could not find a decent king cake locally, and the bakeries back home I inquired about charged an arm and a leg for shipping. Wife had pity on my soul and started making them for me. As for food, I love the traditional New Orleans Mardi Gras meal: Popeyes Famous Fried Chicken with cole slaw.
  20. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    The entire First Class, First Year premise looks only at one factor and membership retention: advancement. And IMHO since it came out when NSPs came out, it is based upon how LDS units do things, i.e. 11 year olds are a separate group. Every unit that is “successful” with NSPs has to treat them like Cub Scouts, not Boy Scouts. Of course they will advance fast, but do they truly learn? With traditional patrols, advancement is slower, but they learn, truly learn.
  21. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    I so wish I had more parents with this attitude. Monday night we had one mom post on FB that her son needed someone to sign off on some Second Class requirements. This is the same Scout who refuses sleep away from daddy. While he was working on requirements, Mom was lamenting the fact that he's been in the troop 10 months as is still only Tenderfoot (don't ask) and that he needs to be First Class by April. I had to talk to her about it is more important that he knows the skills and that a First Class Scout is not only capable of camping on his own, but is suppose to help others. Sadly I don't think she gets it. Then again, maybe I am being a hypocrite. I've reminded middle son that he needs to get First Class by end of May so he can go on the AT trip he's been wanting to do since last summer. It's all on him.
  22. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    While I admit my dealing with Venturing are very limited, I do know that I can count on one hand the number of years my council had an "active" VOA. As far as the OA, I've had a lot more interactions. As a youth officer and 21-23 year old chapter advisor, I was pretty much ignored. I had to get one of my friends to pass off my ideas as his to get them even considered. I had one chapter chief so ticked off at the condecesion of one district committee meeting, he vowed never to attend again. And to this day, his successors have not attended anymore ( approx 7 years now). Talking to the current lodge chief, i discovered that after one incident, which I witnessed years ago, the lodge chiefs have not been attending the council executive board meetings because their voices are ignored. This lodge chief has already commented that he WILL be attending these meetings, and he will represent the voice of the youth in the council whether the adults like it or not. As for the incident that caused the LCs to stop attending, let's just say that the overwhelming opinion of the youth was not to do something. I want to say something like 90% of the youth did not want something to be done. The Lodge Advisor was furious at the results, and overrode the vote by saying "I don't care what you want, this is how it is going to be." When youth and adults started protesting by wearing their sashes inside out, he yelled " wear them properly or don't wear them at all." over half the people in attendance no longer wore their sashes. So forgive me if I do not think that youth have an actual voice that is listend to at the national level.
  23. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    Family camping was the "camel's nose in the tent" that led to coed Cub Scouts. And according to BSA's documents, family camping is allowed for Boy Scouts, Sea Scouts, and Venturers. And we already face folks pushing "family camping" on the boy scout level.
  24. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    Read the current youth application that came out in July 2017. Boy Scout membership states "children...."
  25. Concerns with coed rules, leadership, liability

    page 22 of the Guide to Safe Scouting has this to say about family camping. And since 'OUTING is three-fourths of ScOUTING," I think this will apply to 'Family Scouting" Family Camping Family camping is an outdoor experience, other than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight settings with two or more family members, including at least one BSA member of that family. Parents are responsible for the supervision of their children, and Youth Protection policies apply. (emphasis added)