Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


Everything posted by Eagle94-A1

  1. From https://oa-bsa.org/article/national-committee-immediate-policy-changes National Committee: Immediate Policy Changes Ed Lynes June 07, 2019 Announcements Brothers, In recent years, youth membership in the Order of the Arrow has declined significantly — down 18 percent since 2015. These changes have impacted lodges, and their ability to support councils and deliver program. The Order must grow, alongside the Scouting movement, to achieve its purpose. The best way to do this is through supporting a “High Performing Lodge” in each council. To help achieve this aim, the national OA committee approved several, significant policy changes at today’s meeting: Brotherhood Requirements: Effective immediately, the waiting period between induction and eligibility for Brotherhood membership has been reduced to six (6) months. All other requirements are unchanged. Journey to Excellence (JTE): The lodge program is being discontinued and immediately replaced with the new Performance Measurement Program. There are a small number of requirements and clear benchmarks for lodge achievement. The requirements are consistent with the former JTE to align with your lodge planning. Purpose of the Section: Effectively immediately, the role of the Section has been expanded beyond hosting an annual Conclave. Sections share in the responsibility of empowering, supporting, and helping lodges become high performing. The Lodge Ledger will have more detailed information on these changes and other new programs and policies approved at the meeting. They will also be covered extensively during Thrive, the national OA webinar, on October 19. If there are questions on these changes, or feedback on how to better support your lodge, please contact either Vice Chairman of Unit, Lodge, and Chapter Support Dan McCarthy or myself at membership@oa-bsa.org. Thank you for all you do to make our Brotherhood stronger each day. WWW, Ed Lynes Vice Chairman of Strategic Performance National Order of the Arrow Committee membership@oa-bsa.org
  2. Eagle94-A1

    Scouter needs advise

    That's what the commissioner corps is for. Professionals won't touch unit problems with a 10 foot pole unless A) Youth Protection, and B ) Money is involved.
  3. Eagle94-A1

    Compare Scouting vs Sports ?

    Maybe, but if you want to advance and move up the ladder, you eventually need a BS/BA, and sometimes a MS/MA. Best example is nursing. You can be a LPN with a years worth of training. But your scope of practice is limited compared to a RN with a 2 year associates degree. But to move up to supervisory positions, a BSN is required. The problem is the way HR departments put in criteria for application selection. If certain things are missing, like a 4 year degree, you may never get your application pass the computer system. Best example I could give is my brother. He was in the sales profession since HS, participating in a Distributive Education program. Top notch salesman, always qualifying some whatever company awards, and was even assigned to help train manager-trainees. Every time he applied for a manager-trainee program, he got rejected because of no bachelors. Eventually he left.
  4. Eagle94-A1

    Scouter needs advise

    Where to begin. 1) In my experience, the Scouts know who will do a better job in a POR than the adults do. That is why if the Scouts elect someone, you need to give them the opportunity to lead. AND you got to be fair and unbiased. I'll give you an example. There was a Scout elected SPL who I didn't think was ready for it. He was 11 years old, Second Class, and had only 6 months as a PL prior to being SPL. He beat out 2 older scouts, one of whom was SPL before. I tried to talk my son into stepping down! It was talking to him, trying to convince him to step down, that I realized he "got it," the concept of servant leadership. He did a great job for an 11 year old SPL. He got the troop started more on youth led for a while. 2) Sometimes the most mischievous of Scouts are the best ones. They are bored, hence why their misbehave. Another example. We had a guy who was a major P.I.T.A. There were times I wanted to strangle him. Somehow he convinced the SM to approve him to work summer camp with his older brother. Discussion among the Scouters ensued, and he got approved. BEST THING TO HAPPEN TO HIM. Being given some responsibility changed him for the better, and it carried over into the troop. He was just bored, and wanted attention. 3) Parents need to BUTT OUT! Their commentary will affect not only the other adults, but also the Scouts. Let's face it, the Scouts will pick up the parent's attitudes. And their recording of what one Scout does may come back to bite them in the butt when the same thing happens to their child. An example of this happening was another bored and mischievous Scout. He got elected PL and did a good job. He got elected SPL, and some parents, and a few Scouters, were ticked off. They did not think he would make a good SPL due to his previous behavior, and they wanted his opponent to win.They undermined him among the other adults, and their attitudes started affecting their Scouts. Long story short, the SPL could not get anything done without an adult either telling him no, he cannot do that or completely taking over. He eventually quit Scouting altogether 2/3 of the way through his term of office. As I mentioned their recording of what the Scout did may come back to bite them in the butt about their Scout. The Scout who lost the election for SPL, and then the election for PL, made it known to the other Scouts that he did NOT want to be in a leadership position. Only folks not to know this was the adults, including ASM dad. It got out that during the patrol election, which was happening during his BOR. He submitted an absentee ballot, but it did not get in before the vote. It was a tie. When his ballot got in, it tipped the PL job to his opponent. dad was ticked off, but tried to play it off.
  5. Eagle94-A1

    Changing Election Policy midterm

    Agree, especially since the troop instituted a policy that you cannot run for immediate reelection, but have to sit out a term or run for a different position. The troop is not not adding to requirements. Star and Life Scouts still need 6 months. It would be as if a Star Scout SPL earning Life 4 months into his 6 month SPL term of office. the last 2 months of SPL count towards Eagle, he just needs 4 more months in another approved POR to finish the requirement. That exact situation happened to my oldest. 2 months of being SPL and 4 months of being a PL is what he is using to meet that Eagle requirement. You're telling me. Heck sometimes 6 months is not enough time. Another reason why I was against the 4 month change. And I am also against term limits. I was a PL for 18 months straight. I had several friends keep getting reelected for 2 years. But it could be worse. I know one troop in which the SM appointed all PORs. (all bold here on out are emphasis) 🤯 SM's rationale was that "the same people keep getting elected over and over. This is gives everyone a chance and is fairer" When I reminded him of what I taught him in training he told me, "Scouting needs to change with the times." Agree and disagree. Agree in that all decisions are made by the PLC. They know what works best with their patrols and troop better than we do. Disagree in that adult interference causes more problems than they solve. Seen it happen in other troops, and lived it in one troop. Trust me it was not pretty, and fought hard against it. Also disagree in that once the PLC makes a decision, it is troop policy. And just like our countries laws, succeeding PLCs can change those policies.
  6. Eagle94-A1

    Changing Election Policy midterm

    Interesting. Other than the one Scout, and his parents, is anyone else complaining? Another question to consider, is the job getting done? I was in a troop that switched from 6 months to 4 months. Part of it was to give more opportunities for leadership. Part of it was lack of performance by the SPL. I was against that decision, but more adults agreed with it. Key question what would the PLC think of the change? Forgot to add, if the PLC does want to change it, it needs to go into effect AFTER the SPL finishes his term of office. The SPL was elected for a year, and his term of office had not ended.
  7. Eagle94-A1

    Compare Scouting vs Sports ?

    In some areas it is the school. Back in the day, as well as in my locale today, Band is a class with a grade that affects GPA. Miss a performance, you lose part of your grade. And while it is not done in my locale that I now about, back in the day at my HS and friends' HSs, sports counted towards your PE grade. They would place folks on the various teams in the same PE class. During the preseason and season, practice and games counted as the class. "PE period" was actually a study hall. Miss practice or a game, you lost part of your grade. Once the season was over with, you then went to a normal PE class.
  8. Eagle94-A1

    Scouter needs advise

    @Owls_are_cool 1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS! 2) Sorry to read about the situation. I was in an adult run troop that had parents constantly interfering, and ignoring, the trained Scouters. my advice is... ...RUN FOR YOUR LIFE! I spent 19 months dealing with parents you are describing. It made my life miserable. But more importantly, it was affecting my boys. Oldest wanted to Eagle and leave because he was getting fed up. Middle son was becoming extremely cynical with the situation. We had to leae, and it was a good decision. It will be hard to do. But what is in your son's best interest?
  9. Eagle94-A1

    Baloo and IOLS combined

    There are enough differences between the 2 courses that I would not combine them. I would however have the tw courses offered during the same weekend and combine some activities that could. Webelos Leader Outdoor Training and IOLS I have a combined, but WeLOT is now part of BALOO.
  10. Eagle94-A1

    When to step away

    Can understand completely. After 15 years on the same district committee, I needed a break. I have had 9 months R&R. Between that and the new troop, it's been a great relief. So sit back, take a break, and have fun with a unit, or no nonscouting activities. Get the much needed rest you deserve .
  11. They won't, even when they acknowledge that there are problems with the applicant because "you do not penalize the Scout for the errors of the adults."
  12. I remember when it could take up to 3 months for National to approve Eagle.
  13. Eagle94-A1

    What to wear?

    What does your son want you to wear?
  14. Metaphorically taking off the uniform and putting on the "dad hat" my hoodlums made me a number of years ago. Oldest is 95% completed with his Eagle Project. All that remains is to do is get it inspected and approved, present it to the hospital, and the give a presentation on the project to the foundation that is giving him the grant. Basically stuff he needs to do himself. Project was building 2 mobile gaming stations and a mobile gaming library cart with storage for some of the accessories. While not as major as some projects of late, with the exception of dealing with beuracracy, driving, and taking photos, adults have done no work on it. And since powertools were not involved, all members of the troop could help with the project.
  15. Eagle94-A1

    Bragging time on the oldest.

    SWMBO = She Who Must Be Obeyed, aka the wife. The project has gotten to her. Funny thing is, she has done little actual work on the project. Mostly it's been encouraging him and getting answers when needed. I've done the same thing, but also was one of the adults supervising the project.
  16. Eagle94-A1

    Bragging time on the oldest.

    Lot going on the past few days. Went to the mountains for family vacation. Came back and oldest had to prepare for the presentation to the hospital's foundation board of directors for today. Long story short I was reviewing the workbook to make sure all the 'i's dotted and t's crossed" when I noticed two challenges. One was the Eagle Scout Fundraising Application. To be honest, I do not think it is needed for his project, but to make sure and be safe, it got filled out. Also added a before and after picture to the project. Beneficiary signed off on both. It is done! Hopefully the DE can sign off on the fundraising application so we can get that done tomorrow. A huge stress on everyone is over. This project has stressed him out. It took more time than planned, and has pushed back his goal of finishing everything by December instead of the end of this month. Seeing her son stressed out, plus dealing with some of the bureaucracy at the hospital, SWMBO has been stressed. And when Momma is stressed, EVERYONE is stressed Life is good.
  17. Eagle94-A1

    Crossover schedule

    @The Latin Scot There are advantages and disadvantages to both methods. In the current non-LDS 5 year program, the Cubs are burningout IMHO. All three of mine were ready to Cross Over when they did, or before. While the younger 2 were indeed 11 when they crossed over, it had to do more with when the ceremony took place, Middle son was tempted to skip the Webelos badge and go straight to AOL since he was caught in the 2015-2016 program changes, and did not need Webelos to earn AOL. Only reason he stayed was the friend factor. Thankfully he had 2 WDLs who knew how to run the program, and they were acting more like a NSP, or an 11 year old LDS patrol, than Cub Scout which helped. Youngest was a different story. He was ready to move up 2 months prior to the Cross Over. He was actually attending troop meetings, camp outs, and fundraisers at the same time he was getting some extra Adventure Pins the last 3 months of Webelos. In fact the only reason he went to den and pack meetings was SWMBO forced him. She wanted him to finish Cub Scouts strong. Plus she committed herself as Bear ADL until the end of the School year. So one disadvantage until waiting is that the Cub can lose interest if they are forced to wait. Another disadvantage, depending upon when the Cub Scout ages into Scouts, BSA, is that they may not have time to be fully prepared for summer camp. I know that is not an issue with LDS troops since 11 year olds cannot go to summer camp, but for non-LDS troops, it can be a problem. I know when I did the traditional 3 year program back in the day, I turned 11 and crossed over a month before the troop went to summer camp. Not only was my family unable to afford the camp fee on one month's notice, my mother also had other issues. Long story short, my original Council, the New Orleans Area Council, had a major sex abuse scandal in the 1970s. My family didn't know the troop's leadership very well and had reservations sending me with people they really didn't know. Grant you there are ways to overcome that, but it can be an issue. Biggest advantage to the traditional 3 year program as still practiced by the LDS Church is that it does not cause burn out and, as you mentioned, can be customized more to the individual
  18. Eagle94-A1

    Den Leader Guides 2015 edition vs 2018

    Outdoor Adventurer, since camping is one option for it.
  19. Eagle94-A1

    Den Leader Guides 2015 edition vs 2018

    IF you are using the old guides, I would recommend going to Macscouter.com and downloading the current Cub Scout requirements http://usscouts.org/advancementTOC.asp#cubrank That way you can modify your program guides Apparently all of the requirements, except Bobcat, were changed September 1, 2018. So that is #3 since July 1, 2015 😑 ON A DIFFERENT NOTE, Glad youngest son's den followed the requirements in the book for AOL. Although the requirements look the same.😁
  20. Eagle94-A1

    NYLT Recruitment

    William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt said it best: "Train 'em. Trust 'em. LET THEM LEAD!" The Scouts will be learning how the ideal troop works: youth led with adults providing support. They will be learning the skills needed to make it happen: communication, representing the group, counseling, etc. Here is a link to the 2014 Syllabus https://scoutingevent.com/attachment/BSA358/58960_1449594194_1802.pdf I beleive that there have been some minor changes, but do not know for sure. Either way, it will provide a foundation of understanding for you. IMHO, the hardest part will be letting go of control and letting the Scouts take over. You trained them with ILST, and trusted them to learn more with NYLT. Now you gotta trust them to apply what they learned and lead. It won't be perfect. they will make mistakes but you MUST give them the opportunity to make their own mistakes and learn from them. Some of the things ideas I offer: 1. Make sure the PLC is meeting on a regular basis to plan and prepare. You would be surprised at the number of troops that do not do this. 2. Resist the urge to intervene and take over. If you want to destroy a troop, that is the way to do it. 3. As soon as you are able to, go through Wood Badge. NYLT is Wood Badge for Scouts. In fact staffers can earn their 3rd and fourth beads running NYLT now. CAVEAT ABOUT WB: WB was orignially intended to give adults advance outdoor skills in a Patrol Method environment. While over time it has morphed into a management course, some elements of the Patrol Method survive AND some participants when they return to their units continue to act as if they are in patrols still. OUR JOB AS SCOUTERS IS TO SIT BACK DRINK COFFEE, BUG JUICE, OR COCOA AND ENSURE THE SAFETY OF THE SCOUTS AS THEY RUN THEIR TROOP. ( caps and bold are emphasis). 4. Listen to you Scouts' words, and actions! I knew a SM start a new troop and spent about 5 years getting it to completely boy-led. One of the things that helped was at the 3 or 4 year mark, he had Scouts old enough and First Class to go to NYLT. That really helped the troop. The SM stepped down and a new SM took over. The new SM ignored his Scouts, especially the NYLT ones, and ran his own program. He stated to his UC that "BSA needs to change with the times." as the reason why he was not using the Patrol Method, and completely ignoring the Scouts. Some of the Scouts were polite when they talked to him about how he was screwing up the troop. One was right to the point. It didn't matter, he was ignoring everything BSA teaches: planning the meetings and camp outs without the Scouts input, appointing all leadership positions including PLs and SPL, etc. Once the Scouts realized it was useless to talk to him and try to run the troop, they talked with their feet: they left. The older ones Eagled and left. A lot of the younger ones transferred to another troop. So listen to your Scouts.
  21. Eagle94-A1

    Which square knots to wear and why

    I personally don't like the devices as they are a pain, figuratively and literally. Plus there are big differences between being a TDL, CSDL and WDL. So I didn't mind Regarding the training award knots, all they consolidated were the Cub Scouter, DL Coach, and the Scouter Training Award. The Scouter Training Award had devices for Boy Scouters, Sea Scouters, and Venturing folks. They just added the Tiger, CS and Webelos pins on them.
  22. Eagle94-A1

    To have an ECOH or not

    Until recently, I never encountered this problem. Growing up you were expected to be there. Heck I remember coming from a semi formal ring ceremony at HS with my girlfriend, then heading to an ECOH and changing into my uniform. As soon as the ceremony was over, changed back into coat and tie, and went to the ring dance. Last ECOH I went to, was held at the Eagle's church instead of the CO, and his brother, who is an Eagle MC'd it. Very little involvement from the troop.
  23. Eagle94-A1

    Which square knots to wear and why

    When I worked part time for National Supply in college, my boss did not want me wearing any of my knots. And she didn't want me wearing my jamboree insignia either. All I could wear was my employee patch and WC. However 3 years later when I went to work full time for her, she had no problem with my knots or jamboree insignia. And when I went to the shop the other day, two of the 3 sales clerks had knots on. And in the past one clerk had beads on.
  24. Eagle94-A1

    Which square knots to wear and why

    1) WELCOME TO DA FORUMS 2) One of the challenges regarding knots is that with the exception of the Sea Scout program, which has had a max number of 6 for a number of years, there has been only "recommended" maximums that have changed several times AND at one point was only listed in restricted literature like the Wood Badge syllabus. It has only been in the latest Guide to Awards and Insignia that a maximum number has been established: 9. And then that is only for the current uniform. If you are wearing a vintage one you don't have to take any off. And to be honest with the number of problem uniforms you see in BSA literature, having more than 9 knots is extremely minor. And who knows it may change again. 3) "Order of Precedence" while highly personal, other factors can put into play, i.e. time factors for sewing, or in my case laziness I had a new shirt, barely got my knots sewed on it in time for the district banquet, and I got 2 knots that night. Long story short, I didn't undo all the knots I just sewed on to rearrange them. I just added them to the top. On another shirt, I still have the original 4 knots on it that I bought to go on the shirt when it was new. Another factor is each individual will have their own preference that others may disagree. I know I made a lot of folks unhappy when I said the toughest volunteer job is being a D, and how I was extremely proud to earn my TCDL and CSDL knots.. People tried to say I didn't know what I was talking about, until I pointed out my previous positions in the movement. Minimalist or Wear what you've earned, it doesn't matter. What does matter is respecting the time that the others give to the program. Respect their knowledge, skills, and abilities, and don't just ignore them because they are not wearing knots or beads..
  25. Eagle94-A1

    Patrol cook and chef kits now

    Looks like the Scout SHop is selling this now https://www.scoutshop.org/gsi-glacier-stainless-steel-troop-cookset.html