Eagle94-A1

I am very pessimistic at this time. Things that I thought would happen due to the lawsuits and bankruptcy on the local are happening. And COVID-19 is making it worse. We are on a conditional charter now due to membership loses and not meeting finance goals. our DFS and 2 DEs have been RIF'ed. Merging districts was mentioned in a letter, and friends in the know mentioned possibility of splitting the council amongst 4 neighboring councils. A variety of factors have affected membership: policy changes, loss of LDS, negative publicity regarding lawsuits and bankruptcy. FOS is down because of the above and the last, minute increases in registration. I know I reneged on my pledge because I had to use my pledge to pay for increase in dues. I am not pledging for this year, I am expecting another increase in fees. Hopefully someone will realize that we need the info prior to June so that units making budgets based upon the school year can plan accordingly. My district and council are dying. Regarding the comment that BSA will be more volunteer led, I hope so. But I won't hold my brief. I not only know of professionals who ignore and overrule volunteers, but also go after volunteers who disagree with the. I personally know 2 volunteers who were removed from Scouting because they discovered some irregularities on the professional level, and brought it to folks attention. Heck one SE gave a training session on selecting volunteers, and told us to only use "yes men" in stead of the best person for the job. One of the reasons my district is in the shape it is in is because the pros overule our decisions. Funny thing is, we never seem to see them around, nor are they in communication with us until after everything is planned and organized. It seems as if they think because they are paid, they know more about Scouting than the volunteers do. As far as summer camp is concerned, I do not think it will happen. Even if things open up, I think parents will be extremely cautious and not send the Scouts. Hopefully I will get a refund for the deposit already paid, but I doubt it. Hopefully I can write it off my taxes as a donation.

Reviving this thread because an email was sent out today that my council has a conditional charter. Trying to figure out what the heck is going on, and what to expect. I am expecting the worse. The 'reduced in force" the DFS and 2 other pros. And the plan on realigning the renaming DEs.

Actually there was a survey or questionnaire on the matter. But from the questions on the survey, the manner in which they conducted the survey, and the results they excluded from the survey, it seemed that the decision was already made. The questions were very biased towards the decision they wanted. Anyone taking it would have known what answers they wanted. as they really didn't give options The manner in which they conduced it ticked off a lot of folks, professionals included. First national informs the SEs and council presidents and commissioner, DAYS PRIOR TO A NATIONAL SCOUT JAMBOREE ( emphasis) that they want these town halls done by a a date that was 15 days after jamboree ended. When it was announced, many SEs council presidents and commissioners were either on their way to jambo, or already there on staff. My council key 3 were furious at the short notice of it, as they were only able to schedule 1 town hall prior to the date. Then in order to have a town hall, all three people had to be present. THEN only those attending the town hall could take the survey. In my neck of the woods, were were given so short notice, that only 14 people were able to attend FROM A 15+ COUNTY AREA ( emphasis). I was the only one who could make it from my district. They had a second one scheduled, but it was AFTER the deadline, so thsoe folks were unable to take the poll. Then when the results were tabulated, LDS members in the Western Region were excluded from the results. Don';t know about the rest of the regions, but some booklet that was published had a foot note stating that fact. Why would you leave out 18+% of the membership out of the poll? What i find intersting is that the booklet did nto have the results of the poll. In fact I cannot find the results of the poll published in any BSA publication. Instead National used non-member polls to justify their decison.

You are not joking about unit leader personality affecting unit culture. SM is the one who does not understand why they need to camp every month, and stated he did not like camping. He also earned Eagle in the 1970s when camping was not required. When I last conducted ITOLs, it was specifically for him and his ASMs, as he just assumed SM, and none of the adults were trained, let alone gone through ITOLS. He showed up, and no one else did because "it's too cold to camp." Temps were in the upper 30s, lower 40s. I do not know if it is still the case, but at one point all leadership positions were appointed by him. Rationale was the same boys kept getting elected over and over, and everyone needs a chance to be a leader for advancement. Multiple UCs (when we had them) have been sent in to help him out, including several former ASMs from that troop. They have been ignored, told Scouting needs to change with the times, and worse, told they don't know what they are talking about. I stopped trying to help when I was not only accused of stealing his Scouts (Webelos Crossing Over into Scouts) but also accused me of trying to take over a Cross Over Ceremony for our troops when the OA backed out at the last minute, and the CM asked me to write a single ceremony script incorporating the two troops. Sadly the district is on life support. We do not have out own DE, but have been sharing one for years now. I hate to say it, but I lost count how long it has been without a FT, dedicated DE. I think it has been 7 years now, at least. Volunteers on the district have been burned out and frustrated by pros. Several have quit over pros overruling them and/or taking over events and duties they are responsible for. I would say we have a Key Three now, but no one has seen out DE since university of Scouting/Council Silver Beaver and Eagle Luncheon that was advertised with 2 weeks notice. That was a month ago. Prior to that, I honestly can't remember when I last saw him, maybe the district camporee. Regarding the troop, they had major issues in the past. Hopefully things have changed. They got a friend of mine as ASM who likes to camp. Challenge is that due to health issues, he can only car camp. While there is nothing wrong with car camping, it seems that is all they do. I have seen one ASM show up to camporee in a popup camper.

I think you are right. National has focused solely on folks getting Eagle, and it has spread downward through the ranks. Heck I had one SM tell me one of my Scouts was wasting his htime because he took a MB he already had a second time because he enjoyed it. Instead that Scout should have been taking MBs he needed for Eagle. Scouting and summer camp in particular should be about fun. In all honesty I do not think he had fun in Scouting. He did it because his mother pushed. As for meeting the purpose, again I don't think so. Scouting is suppose to prepare you for life. And he is afraid of leaving his family to go to college. I have only seen this once before in an Eagle, and it was one form the same troop. He passed up scholarships to out of town universities to stay with his family. I know, I know, meeting the requirements. He met them. Thankfully I have been extremely fortunate in that regard. Every Eagle who has asked for a letter has been outstanding. I even went to bat for one Eagle who had some delays in his EBOR due to his dear old Uncle Sam sending him to San Antonio for sometraining.

WOW! Every single troop I have been involved with in 6 different councils over 30 year has gone to summer camp as a troop. I really feel sorry for your Scouts.

I am a big proponent of summer camp because that is the place where bonding with the troop happens faster because you are there, with your buddies, 24/7. Further for many Scouts, summer camp is the first time away from their parents for an extended period. We did ask about why he didn't go to summer camp, and the reason was he did not want to be away from his family that long. Now he is almost 18, leaving for college in the fall, and is worried about how he will handle being away from his family. While he met the requirements for Eagle, he not only did get the full experience Scouting had to offer, but also is not prepared to leave the nest. He is an Eagle, pending National approval, but Scouting, whether locally or nationally, has failed to prepare him for life IMHO.

Last night I sat on an Eagle Board of Review. I admit I was surprised when found out who it was because I had not seen them in 5 years. I admit life threw him and his family some curve-balls and could understand why he wasn't around. But the shock involved weekend and long term. Found out that his troop goes to the same 4 places all the time, and they are in conjunction with merit badge universities. That is definitely the troop's fault. BUT here is the kicker in the 6 years he has been registered as a Scout, he has never been to a week long summer camp. That's right... NEVER BEEN TO A WEEK LONG SUMMER CAMP! (emphasis). I wondered how he could ever earn Camping MB, and looked it up. A week long camp out MAY (emphasis) be used to meet the 20 days and nights of camping. So who failed the Scout: Troop, National, or both?

Lots of good advice. A few other thoughts. 1. Contact the council to get a transcript of their advancement records. I have seen Scouts get delayed because council records were messed up. 2. MAKE COPIES OF EVERYTHING! I have had a Scout "never turn in the paperwork." when he had a photo of him turning in the paperwork. Another time a Scout's BOR signed application was "never turned in," when the paperwork for the other 2 EBORs that night were received and processed.

I think folks are forgetting the origins of the Boy Scouts. The program was designed to allow Scouts to do things on their own or with their patrols. Anyone remember the First Class journey requirement? It was a 14 mile round trip journey by foot or boat.It could be done by yourself or with another Scout. And it cold be all day, or include an overnigt camp out. Venturing is not what Scouting should become, rather Venturing is what Scouting use to be. The purpose of Scouting wasn't to earn ranks, but develop independance and skills needed for life. The Ranks just showed what skills you had mastered and what you were capable of doing. Advancement wasn't the whole focus of the program like it is today. And I am afraid for Venturing. Not only has its numbers dropped, the powers that be at National have started make it more like Scouts BSA. Instead of awards, they now have ranks. While there has always been a recommended uniform, there is a greater push for it now. And there are some limits as to what they can and cannot do. When I was in college, it was starting a outdoor r. I mentioned the advantages of being a High Adventure Explorer post, but no one was interested because of all the BSA's rules. As others stated, they could do the same activities on their own.

It is extremely challenging. Not only are you responsible for keeping up with all their advancement, you are also responsible for teaching them and supervising them. One experienced Scout to 8 new Scouts and you will get overwhelmed. And the new Scouts will get frustrated. Compared to a Traditional Patrol where an experienced Scout buddies up with a new Scout to teach and help supervise.

And NSPs are an adult organizational concept. In one trop I was in with that used NSPs, scouts from 4 different packs were put into a NSP. Some of those Scouts joined with the intent of being with friends, who happened to be in different patrols. It was not a good year in the troop. One of the complaints, among many, we had back in 1986-87 when we were the guinea pigs trying out the NSP concept. While not everyone will be a Scout, if you deliver the promise, the outdoors, they will come. If you have a true youth led program, instead of adults conctantly overruling and contradicting the youth leaders, it will be successful. Troop I am currently with has 2 Scouts were never in Cubs. Agree, if it is no the Scout's idea to be in the unit, they will come up with any excuse. Worse, they will cause major problems that affect the other Scouts. THIS!

This^^^

My thoughts. I. HATE. NEW. SCOUT. PATROLS! In 34 years of seeing them used, I have never seen it used successfully. Either the Troop Guide, or Patrol Leader as I was called when my troop was asked to try it out in 1986 before it became the recommendation in 1989, gets overwhelmed working with bunch of new Scouts by himself, or adults need to intervene so much that it becomes Webelos 3. OPERATION FIRST CLASS, as the idea was originally called in 1989, is based on skewed data. More on that later

I am going from memory here, so bear with me. The COR or IH must write a letter with name, and if possible the membership ID, to the Scout Exec and Registrar stating the person is to be removed from the unit charter.