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The Latin Scot

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Everything posted by The Latin Scot

  1. The Latin Scot

    Information about a slide!

    At our Camporall this past weekend, I found this delightful little neckerchief slide for $2 in a bin of predominantly commonplace or uninteresting slides. I fell in love with it at once, but it's history has eluded all my research and scouring of the internet. Can anybody offer any information about this little treasure? I would like to tell Scouts something about this whenever I wear it (which I am sure will be often), but at the moment I have absolutely nothing to go on. Any comments or help would be greatly appreciated; thank you!
  2. I hope and pray my thoughts here will be articulated in a way that will generate a positive response and greater unity of understanding and discourse by those who read it. I notice that the impending separation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Boy Scouts of America has garnered much discussion about the motivations, ideology and mechanics behind this process. However, as I member of that faith, I also see that there has been an unfortunate trend by some to use this as an opportunity to make sideway comments voicing their opinions about our beliefs, our organization, our doctrines, our history, et cetera. It is entirely appropriate and healthy to maintain an open dialogue about how these coming changes will affect Scouting, the youth, the programs, and all other such related issues. It is also good to ask questions about why our church is making these changes and where our thoughts and feelings come from. However, is it appropriate for these discussions to be used as a platform for members to express incorrect information or inflammatory opinions about our faith? Is that a Scout-like thing to do? Is it ever right to deride in any way a religion or its leadership, to make accusations or spread calumny about another's faith? I cannot believe that it is. I do not only express this concern as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I speak thus on behalf of any and all faiths - Judaism, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu, Protestant, Evangelical, even atheist - whatever it may be, it behooves us to speak with nothing but respect and kindness about the religions of others - especially those of a fellow American. I think we can do better in these forums in regards to preserving goodwill between all faiths. I will gladly strive to improve my discourse here in regards to the ideals and thoughts of others, but that means I hope for the same from all here. That concept, the concept of fighting to preserve the right of all people to live and express their faith, is central to Scouting. A Scout is brave; a Scout is reverent. Those go hand in hand. Joseph Smith Jr. himself one wrote: So as we discuss at length the tremendous wave of changes that both the Church and Scouting face with the coming of the new year, let's keep the discussions kind and civil, and not use them to put down ANY faith or religion, whether explicitly or subtly. This website, filled with the thoughts of Scouters, leaders, and good people, should be an example of goodwill, grace, and respect. Let's watch what we say, and how we say it. I hope I am not too forward in sharing my feelings about this here, but know that I commit myself to do better from here on out before asking it of any of you. I hope others might be willing to do the same.
  3. The Latin Scot

    Discussing LDS beliefs in relation to Scouting

    Yes. Even to those whose beliefs differ from our own, even to those who are unkind or even abrasive, even to those from whom we need to step away because of their choices, we should be kind and respectful. I have not seen anybody here deride Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Muslims ... the list goes on and on. So to see such antipathy towards this one particular faith is uncharacteristic of the general tone of these forums, and yes, I am surprised the moderators have allowed it to continue for so long. Isn't this a Scouting forum?
  4. The Latin Scot

    Did BSA "Abandon" LDS?

    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world/the-family-a-proclamation-to-the-world?lang=eng
  5. The Latin Scot

    Did BSA "Abandon" LDS?

    This I very much appreciate. Thank you for this comment.
  6. The Latin Scot

    Did BSA "Abandon" LDS?

    You make it sound like raising children is somehow a "lesser responsibility" than holding the priesthood, when the two are equally important and are, in fact, shared by both sexes. Also, this is a MASSIVE generalization of an era that my parents also grew up in, and their picture of the times is very different from yours. This kind of depiction is one-sided and derogatory towards the religion of a number of members here. If you have qualms about the faith that is your right and privilege, but it's un-Scoutlike to express such demeaning and biased portrayals here. This is a forum about Scouting, not the culture of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Let's stay on topic.
  7. The Latin Scot

    Did BSA "Abandon" LDS?

    I do not appreciate the suggestion that the BSA "got caught up in that new fangled idea of the worth of the individual," and that, by default, our church somehow doesn't believe in the same. This is, frankly, utterly false calumny that reflects a shocking and extremely unkind attitude towards our beliefs. It's both un-Scoutlike and uncharitible to make such a sideways accusation, especially towards a religion that embraces the supreme and eternal doctrine of divine worth and personal value. I hope these kind of comments cease, but I suppose this has become a time for anybody with misconceptions about our religion to take their shots while the climate is against us. No matter; I'll stand up for our beliefs as long as I have to because, frankly, I love all the people I've come to know here, and I would hate to see false information spread on these good forums. I will also defend ANY OTHER FAITH that comes under condemnation. To put down the faith of another is totally un-American, even if it's done in a subtle or indirect way. Aren't we better than this?
  8. The Latin Scot

    LDS Youth Program for 2020

    You seem to put this fact (not symbol) forward as though it was something wrong or evil that our church was doing. I assure you, this incomplete generalization glosses over many other doctrines to which we hold that explain this fact, and again, demonstrates a misunderstanding of our beliefs and doctrines.
  9. The Latin Scot

    Did BSA "Abandon" LDS?

    Three things. First of all, we believe that sexual relations are ONLY to be had between a man and a woman who are legally married. So whether the individual is gay or straight doesn't make a difference - we still believe in the law of chastity, and we expect our membership to live the commandments related to it, regardless of how they perceive their personal orientation. Next, including girls in Scouting isn't about inferiority or inclusion. It's about the fact that boys and girls are fundamentally different. But including girls in Scouting sends a message that boys and girls learn in the same way, and are for all intents and purposes identical. While the sexes are equal to each other in worth and importance, they are still DIFFERENT. So treating them in Scouting as though the learn in exactly the same way isn't quite aligned with the way we understand the divine differences between men and women. Finally, Scouting was not a priesthood program. It was the activity program for young men, and while we certainly and frequently tied the two together, they were still separate. Whether women hold the priesthood or not has nothing to do with it, and the very suggestion demonstrates that many people still have tremendous misunderstandings about our doctrines concerning priesthood, gender relationships, et cetera. But no, the issue was not that the BSA was part of a priesthood program (because it wasn't) - the issue has no 'REAL' cause, or subversive purpose. Quite simply, the church has grown out of Scouting. We have millions of youth all over the world. For people to claim we have made changes "to cater to millenials" or to "align with the times" shows that people in the U.S. really don't grasp how vast and widespread the Church is. We are a truly GLOBAL church, with members in hundreds of nations speaking hundreds of languages. We need to promote unity and cohesiveness amongst our members, and we need a program for children and youth that would serve all of them in the same way. Scouting just can't do that any more. Our exciting and wonderful new program can, so we are moving on from the BSA for the benefit of all our members. That is the REAL reason we are changing our relationship with the BSA. Any other claims, suggestions or insinuations are either based on an incomplete knowledge of our beliefs or a misunderstanding of our intent. We love the BSA. We always will. But we need something different now. We should part as friends and will love and tender memories, not tainted resentment based on allegations based on hearsay or rumors.
  10. The Latin Scot

    LDS Youth Program for 2020

    If you think we perceive men and women as unequal, then you are grossly misinformed as to what we believe about the divine nature of both men and women, and it would do you well to study your words before putting false accusations online. I worry you may have many incorrect perceptions about our faith which I would be happy to discuss at any time. However, this forum is not an appropriate place for you to express your opinions about our doctrines and beliefs.
  11. The Latin Scot

    Did BSA "Abandon" LDS?

    Much of your information is incorrect, and I must take a moment to clarify the false allegations of this post. Clearly you have a vendetta against our people, so I must as a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints counter your claims so that the facts can be weighed to the benefit of the members here and the discussion at hand. We have a PROFOUND respect for the separation of church and state - but that idea is not, as some might assume, the right of the state to prohibit religions from taking political stand on issues that have moral and civil ramifications. You need to study what the separation of church and state really means. It does NOT mean that the two exist in separate worlds. Rather, it is a means of living in harmony together. Religions need government - and government needs religion. They cannot be utterly divorced, nor were they meant to be. The concept of freedom of religion, including the right to practice that religion, means that we have to right to our values and principles, and to proclaim them as well. To use our pulpits as platforms to declare our moral positions and effect social change is not, in fact, illegal. Nothing the church did during Prop 8 was illegal - I know, because I was there, and I was a part of it. The freedom of religion as defined in the constitution protects our right to preach our values and to work to effect social change and preserve social values. We participate in civil discourse entirely within the parameters of the law, and for you to make these broad false claims in this forum is both inflammatory - and off-topic. So let's get back to our relationship with the BSA, and leave Prop 8 to a discussion elsewhere, where the true facts can be considered without bias. As for our position in the BSA (since that IS what we are discussing here), there was never any "punitive" action taken by the church - we do expect our youth organizations to support our beliefs and standards, and when the BSA started making dramatic changes to its central values and membership standards, we had to make a choice between accepting these changes and being complicit with the fundamental change of moral ideology that would express, or standing by our beliefs and values at the cost of our long and treasured partnership. We held to our beliefs, yet also tried to do whatever we could to save that partnership, because we have loved it and helped millions of boys through it - but we can't cling to something forever when it just doesn't align with our core values anymore. The BSA, on the other hand, did not "stand on principle" - the very opposite - it changed and conformed and let itself be swept along by the tide of current social and political ideologies. It didn't "refuse to be exhorted" by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - first of all, because that's not really what the word exhort means (I suppose you mean something else but can't quite ascertain what it might be) - secondly, because in our day The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints needs a global program that adheres to the values and ideals for which we stand and in which we believe - and the BSA no longer fits that description. Our principles have stayed the same. Those of the BSA have been adapted to fit the current climate. If anybody moved, it was they. On top of all this, our new program has finally been released in tremendous detail, and it is exciting, inspired, and can be shared by the millions of Latter-day Saint youth all over the world. Youth who wish can use Scouting as part of their own personalized program of goals and learning if they wish, but now they have a whole host of options before them, with a program that will build faith and help them grow physically, spiritually, socially and intellectually. With all this in mind, BSA just doesn't fully serve the needs of our youth anymore, and so we have amicably, and with great love and tenderness, closed our official partnership. But as another one of our church leaders also said, "we have been and will always be friends." If there is resentment, then it is unwarranted. 106 years of partnership was a wonderful thing for BOTH of our organizations, but it cannot have been expected to last forever. Why this is happening no longer merits discussion. It's happening, so let us part ways as friends, and move on with love and kind feelings and hopes that both organizations will continue to thrive and grow in the future. The youth of today deserve to see with these changes faith and goodwill from both parties. Even if you have doubts, or concerns, or even fear or resentment - put on a smile, then look back with fondness, look forward with courage, and press on with hope - for their sakes. In the end we'll all be the better for it.
  12. The Latin Scot

    Gratitude

    I think it would be especially appropriate to include this, perhaps one of our nation's greatest sermons on gratitude:
  13. The Latin Scot

    Scouter.com Slogan Contest

    Scouter.com - "Where every question has an opinion"
  14. The Latin Scot

    Scouter.com Slogan Contest

    Scouter.com - "Your living Scouter's handbook"
  15. The Latin Scot

    Scouter.com Slogan Contest

    Scouter.com - "Your online Scouting buddy"
  16. The Latin Scot

    Scouter.com Slogan Contest

    Scouter.com - "See. Share. Learn. Lead."
  17. The Latin Scot

    Scouter.com Slogan Contest

    Augh! How did I not see this thread until just now?! I LOVE this kind of thing; if I had had more time I would have come up with at least a half dozen entries. All I have at the moment is: Scouter.com - "Where Scouting is our path and our purpose"
  18. The Latin Scot

    Orange Boy Scouts Winning the Great War (1917-1918)

    Well, regardless of all those details, we're celebrating our 100th anniversary next year. https://www.ocbsa.org/celebrate100/
  19. The Latin Scot

    Does your pack WELCOME newcomers?

    I can see how that might be an issue if I had never met the family before, and I appreciate the point you make. Admittedly, my pack operates out of our local church congregation (which I grew up in), and most of the families have been in our pack since Wolves at least. So there haven't been many brand-new families whom I haven't met already at some point before, although those that have been new have been very grateful for the time we took to get to know them. Nonetheless I am grateful for your comments and will certainly take that potential perspective into account in the future.
  20. The Latin Scot

    Does your pack WELCOME newcomers?

    I don't know about my pack, but in my Webelos Den, I would always make personal visits with my assistant and Den Chief to new Scouts' homes when possible to welcome new boys into our Webelos group. I'd bring a Family Talent Survey for the parents to complete during our visit along with the standard official BSA Webelos welcome materials, and for the boy I would bring our den patch (as chosen during the Scouting Adventure adventure), Webelos neckerchief, and whatever other uniform items I had on hand from my uniform closet to help him transition as much as possible to the tan & olive uniform. Almost always I was at least able to get them a hat, shirt (with blue loops!), and bottoms of some kind, leaving only the smaller things like socks and slides to the family. Ideally they would already have the belt and handbook. I also asked our new Webelos Scout which elective adventure appealed to him, and made sure to introduce activities from that award into our schedule within his first month or two. And I taught him our den yell and showed him our flag while I discussed upcoming volunteer opportunities with his parents. I made sure they understood our regular den meeting time and location, and when our pack meetings generally transpired and how our planning sessions operated. I also made sure they got the current Monthly Den Newsletter & Calendar so they had a head's up on upcoming activities, and invited them to our monthly committee meetings if they weren't attending already. When visiting the family at their home proved impossible, I invited them to my own, or met with them after the boy's first den meeting - but I never let more than two weeks pass from the boy's first day with us before making sure this meeting took place. Parents always seemed to be extremely appreciative of these visits, so I can only assume I was doing something right when I started doing them.
  21. The Latin Scot

    Information about a slide!

    Here's one more picture, the only other one I've been able to find from an ebay listing that sadly included no details about the item itself. Hopefully somebody here will be able to give me some more history about this. Thanks!
  22. The Latin Scot

    Informal Observations on LDS Scouts

    I've noticed that earning the rank of Eagle doesn't have the same prestige it once did. Nowadays there are so many leaders who didn't earn Eagle that there's almost a greater effort to downplay the achievement in an effort to ameliorate the feelings of all the boys who fail to accomplish it. Which is a travesty in my eyes; when you lessen the value of something good in a vain effort to protect the feelings of those who won't work hard enough to obtain it, you only create a standard of mediocrity that does harm to ALL the youth by taking away the higher goals they could be striving towards. But in my area, there are far too many leaders who couldn't care less about earning Eagle and have passed that apathy on to the next generation, LDS or not. As committed Scouters, it's all we can do to counteract that attitude amongst the boys we serve.
  23. The Latin Scot

    BREAKING - Fee Increase Numbers

    Well, at least $36 is still something I can afford. Glad I don't have kids at the moment though.
  24. The Latin Scot

    Informal Observations on LDS Scouts

    As an LDS commissioner, I think 1/4 is being optimistic. Honestly, I'll be floored if as many as one in ten LDS Scouts throughout the country stay in Scouting. Details about the church's new program are finally rolling in and it seems most boys won't look back as they develop and begin the new activities. Here in Southern Orange County, CA, there is only one LDS-focused unit being formed that will likely cover every town from San Clemente to Newport Beach and all the way north throughout Irvine - it's a huge area with LOTS of LDS youth, yet only about 30 families are showing any real interest in pursuing Scouting so far. I think with the new youth program beginning in earnest next year, the number of kids from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints still involved in Scouting will dwindle more than some like to think. We have a new program now, and while Scouting was wonderful for the 100+ years we were together, it's the dawn of a new era for LDS kids and we have an entirely new, equally involving initiative that's going to consume as much attention and focus and dedication as Scouting ever did. Scouting needs to brace itself for a more total departure than they realize.
  25. I was recently told that many of the LDS Scouting leaders and families in my area will be gathering next week to discuss the start-up of a new, LDS-centric (but certainly not exclusive) unit to serve boys of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in our community who wish to continue Scouting after the end of this year when the church will cease its formal relationship with the BSA. It's likely that I will have the opportunity to serve as Unit Commissioner for this new unit, which I find to be an exciting prospect - but also one for which I want to be (if the phrase isn't a little too on-the-nose) prepared. I am acutely aware of the fine line a commissioner must walk between being a helpful resource and becoming a meddlesome busybody, and I want to make sure that I am a familiar presence without burdening the unit with constant or over-zealous intervention. But of course, I want them to succeed! And to run the Scouting program right. They have a wonderful gentleman stepping up as Scoutmaster, and he is committed to the Green Bar Bill school of thought - as in, letting the boys run their own program, and doing things by the book. So that's a comfort, but I know parents will get involved and there will be the usual factions and disputes as the unit gets off the ground and other adults try to get their grubby paws in the running of the program. With that in mind, would any of you please offer suggestions that might help me play a meaningful role in the formation and launch of this new unit, specifically as its Unit Commissioner? I'm already very comfortable letting the boys do their thing, so it's not as much the youth angle I'm concerned about as much as it is how I can appropriately, and helpfully, work with the adult leaders and parents to ensure the Patrol Method is being preached, protected and preserved for the boys in this new unit. I suppose I may not be articulating my concerns as well as I might hope, partly because I'm still digesting the ramifications of what my role will entail as this new unit develops. So any thoughts or guidance that might help me prepare for this coming year will be deeply appreciated. Thank you!
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