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Hawkwin

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Hawkwin last won the day on March 5

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About Hawkwin

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  1. We do but not consistently. We appear to leave it up to the scout (good practice but results in a higher fail rate). I reviewed my son's a few weeks ago and he was missing many camping nights. The troop does not have their own master list so the only authoritative reference is their log.
  2. Equipment Decoration

    Yes, this inquiry is more for the sake of my scouts and what they should properly do and not for my own authoritarian desires.
  3. Equipment Decoration

    Various official and unofficial references. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/Universal_and_Nonunit_Insignia.pdf "equipment decoration, not for uniform wear." http://www.scoutinsignia.com/tmppatch.htm "Temporary insignia: This consists of badges, pins or other items which does not fall into the advancement, position or title, Jamboree, unit, personal achievement, service, tenure, aquatics, or equipment decoration insignia catagories. ... Aquatics emblems (Mile Swim, Aquatics Instructor, Boardsailing, SCUBA, BSA Llfeguard, etc.) are NOT worn with the uniform and are NOT "temporary insignia." They are worn on the swim trunks/outfit of the Scout/Venturer/Scouter. Equipment decoration (the large 4-6 inch emblems representing National High Adventure, training (National Camping School, Philmont Training Center, National Youth Leadership Experience (NAYLE), National Junior Leader Training, etc.), including the 50-Miler and Historic Trails Awards, along with the Paul Bunyan Axman Award and others, may be worn either on the backside of the red (or blue) jac-shirt or on personal camping equipment or blankets. Those items are not "temporary insignia" and therefore cannot be worn on the back of the merit badge sash or anywhere on the uniform. . ----------------- There were a few more sites (didn't bookmark them) that basically stated the same thing as above.
  4. I have been able to find only limited references to the term "Equipment Decoration" and what is included in such, like the 50-Miler, Paul Bunyan (and other skill-based patches), and the Historic Trails. What others would be included in this? Is there an easier way to know what is an Equipment Decoration patch and what is a miscellaneous patch? I ask because apparently equipment patches are supposed to go on equipment (e.g. backpacks and swim trunks) and not the back of the merit badge sash, as miscellaneous patches may. I tried the following but it does not clarify: https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/Universal_and_Nonunit_Insignia.pdf Would Outdoor ethics be misc or equipment? How about the National Outdoor Awards? High Adventure? Nova? Previous JTE?
  5. Agreed. So, can anyone tell me how cutting up a card (in and of itself) in any way creates discipline? Does a scout learn to properly use a knife the moment you cut the card? Are they automatically cured of their lack of discipline? Are they a safer scout now that they have a cut card? If not, then might there be more effective ways to teach discipline? If there are more effective ways to teach a scout discipline (if you still have to educate the scout after you cut the card), then perhaps the cutting of a card is more about the scouter and less about the scout. YMMV of course.
  6. Pain? Let's use a bit of hyperbole. Would it be OK to cut off the top of their socks as a means of keeping him from slicing their hand open? Would it be OK to make a scout cut off their shirt tail (the tucked in portion) as a means to keep them from slicing their hand open? Why stop at a corner? Why not cut up the card entirely into tiny pieces while everyone watches? What's a little pain between scouters if it keeps them safe? If you and others can agree that there some actions that cause emotional pain and that would take things to far, then you have to ask yourself if any "pain" is appropriate in this situation. We should not be in the business of trying to cause pain. We should be in the business of trying to teach. I don't want to ever be a bully to a scout if cutting a corner when it doesn't teach anything feels like me being a bully.
  7. Huh? I think you have me confused with someone else.
  8. Well so end my short tenure as DL, heh . I could maybe pull my wife in as the ADL but this is one heck of a hoop if we are going to require a TRAINED female leader over the age of 21. Simply having female present that has complete YPT seems like it should be sufficient. My wife WILL NOT be eager to complete the hours of online DL training that would be required to be in compliance.
  9. I don't think lack of complaints means it is correct. Some of the arguments for cutting the corner reminds me of another topic being discussed these days - privilege and bias. I read a recent comment from a person that stated that they never felt privilege for their skin color in the same way that many argue that they never felt that cutting a corner is hazing. In both cases, the wrong person is being asked. I've personally been involved in both receiving hazing and giving it to others. When I gave it to others (and I've done some mean things), you can be sure I didn't think at the time that I was doing anything wrong. I thought I was educating, continuing tradition, building espirit de corps. The person I was hazing certainly didn't tell me that I was hazing them and that I should stop. In many cases, they acted like they enjoyed it. My perspective on this situation was wrong. Even in cases where I was being hazed (Army and college frats), I usually lacked the maturity to both recognize it was wrong and to say anything about it. Near the end of my college days, I was elected President of my fraternity. By then, I finally had the maturity and the confidence to put an end to the hazing activities my frat was perpetrating. Even then, I had massive opposition (over 70%) from the members of my own chapter. They didn't want it to end. This was coed frat and a few women, privately, supported my stance on ending the hazing. Some of them (both men and women) even tried to "physically" overrule me. They could not see it as wrong because it was the way we had done things for 60 years and it was done to them and it didn't bother them so why should it bother anyone else? No one ever complained about it. This was a right of passage that must be continued.* Some scouters would rather stick so hard to this action being right (no one ever complains) that they don't seem to be willing to accept the possibility that their scouts lack the maturity and confidence to recognize that they don't like it and to say anything about it. Perhaps cutting the corner is more about what a scouter want to continue and less about what scouts need to grow. *We had many cases of hazing in the frat but one in particular I eventually refused to participate in and tried to end it - even though I had done it to others as a member. At the end of our terms of elected office, the members would grab the officers and give them a shower party - physically carry them into the shower. This often resulted in a struggle. Everyone laughed and had a great time with it (alcohol was usually involved) but I eventually came to see it as a problem as someone could easily feel sexually assaulted during the activity and when dealing with showers and water, someone could get seriously hurt - so I said no more. A few of the members still tried to carry me in even after I refused and it resulted in quite a serious confrontation that thankfully did not cross over into battery for myself or those involved. This was in the 90s. About 10 years ago, that same chapter was shut down for a year and they were forced to sell their chapter house over a serious but undisclosed violation related to inappropriate conduct. Unfortunately, my stance against improper behavior did not outlast my term as President.
  10. Oh ya, we meet. Just had our leaders meeting and our first pack meeting. There are no other girls in the pack (they would be in my den per the rules as I understand them). Great advice! I have had very limited discussions about the district/council coordinating some all-girl activities but I need to follow up on that communication and own it if I want to make sure it happens.
  11. This is the first time someone suggested a new card - and I would be more OK with that solution but cutting the corner cannot be repaired or replaced as you eluded to earlier. You don't need a scar to have your card revoked or a corner cut, and if a scout did something bad enough that actually resulted in a cut/scar, cutting a corner after the fact would not have changed that - and again, it teaches nothing that would prohibit a scar in the future. It is a form of permanent punishment, it isn't education. I fail to see why corporal punishment of card is deemed an effective means of education. The Guide to Safe Scouting states that, "Discipline used in Scouting must be constructive and reflect Scouting’s values. Corporal punishment is never permitted. Disciplinary activities involving isolation, humiliation, or ridicule are prohibited." IMO, cutting a corner is not constructive nor does it reflect Scouting's values. YMMV.
  12. Why isn't cutting the corner of your chip more like the police officer cutting the corner of your license? A point or two for speeding eventually goes away. You never regain the corner of you chip. Because it is permanent. What other "punishment" or corrective action do we take in BSA that leaves a permanent mark? You can never regain that cut corner. It builds resentment and does nothing, on its own, to teach better skills. Cutting the corner of a card is as an effective method of corrective action as making someone sing for their stuff back. In thinking about this, I considered other "inappropriate usage" violations my scouts might have at home. If my scout was using their tablet or their PS4 inappropriately, I would not take out a knife and permanently damage their tablet or their PS4 controller as a constant and permanent reminder of previous transgressions. I would take away their usage until they could demonstrate that they can use such items appropriately. Cutting the corner feels almost like we hold a multi-year grudge against them. My son has a bow. If I saw him use it in an unsafe manner, I would take it away from him and not permit him to use it until he demonstrates he can consistently use it safely. I would not take out a knife and cut some permanent mark on the riser that would be a constant reminder to him in future years that he was previously irresponsible when he was younger. What do we cut off the scout(er) that accidentally violates the YPT? What do we say to the scout that catches an adult doing something wrong or incorrect when they ask us what they get to cut off of ours? I've been in two frats and through Army Airborne boot camp (which was easy compared to the treatment I received at my actual Airborne Infantry unit) and while I would agree that there are certainly worse forms of hazing but also know that the severity of one doesn't invalidate the other.
  13. From 2013: Ask the Expert: Is cutting corners off the Totin’ Chip allowed? https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2013/08/13/ask-the-expert-is-cutting-corners-off-the-totin-chip-allowed/ Note the first comment: Well looks like for Cub Scouts, Cutting Corners from the Whittling Chip is now forbidden. Page 69 of the 2017 BALOO Syllabus states: "Describe how the Whittling Chip, if revoked, must be re-earned as a complete unit in order to again carry and use a pocketknife. The corners cannot be cut off from the Whittling Chip for infractions—the certificate must be treated as a single entity." ------------------------- I would think that any action that leaves the card permanently damaged both unnecessary and probably a form of hazing. Once the scout has completed the actions necessary to earn the privilege to have a knife again, the card will still bear the cut. A cub scout version of a scarlet letter for a past infraction.
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