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  1. As the time that a vote total approaches, I encourage everyone to repeat the Scout Oath and Law several times to remind us how to treat one another. There are victims here who wish for the plan to fail. If it does, they will be pleased and if not, they will be very unhappy. Scouters wish for them to be compensated as they deserve some level of compensation. Also, this list is for Scouters interested in bettering Scouting. Many of us have been on these forums for many years. Though they want victims to be compensated, many (most ?) feel that the present plan is a good compromise.
    14 points
  2. I don't think anyone said that. What they said is that we shouldn't just do weekly meetings and eliminate the outdoor program. Honestly, scouting without an outdoor program is not scouting ... its school. So why continue? Risk management is not eliminating all risks. It is mitigating them while still ensuring the program/process/product can continue. My son downhill skis. Yes, he can die. He could get seriously injured. He wears safety equipment and skis within his ability ... but there is still the risk. The ski club makes me sign a wavier to tell me of the risks. My
    12 points
  3. This is Doug Kennedy, a member of the TCC. First, I want to thank all of you for your comments over the past 18 months. Your comments and those in other forums, whether I disagree with them or not, have helped inform me as I work to represent all Survivors. As many of you know, the Coalition has made some statements both in the hearing yesterday and in a press release this morning. I find them horrible and the rest of the TCC does as well. Tonight is a TCC Town Hall and I invite you to attend so that you can hear directly how we feel about several issues. As well, we are going to hold mo
    12 points
  4. I have been reading this blog for months and finally decided to express how I feel about this plan. I have always and continue to believe there are thousands of fraudulent sexual abuse claims filed in this bankruptcy. I also believe there are thousand of legitimate abuse claims that have not been filed. I am frankly disgusted by the lawyers of the Coalition and more specifically those of AIS. The coalition and the “supposed non organization” (AIS) actively recruited “victims” without, in my opinion, any legitimate vetting. My attorneys required a vast amount of evidence, which I provided,
    11 points
  5. A friend contacted me privately, concerned I've not been posting. He knows I am on all the hearings and was checking in on me. Honestly, Eagle1993 does such an excellent job I had little to add. My attempts at comic relief are often not well received (by some) and get shut down. Literally. Last time, I crashed the internet with an incouous though highly relevant observation about the repetitiveness of the presentations and arguments. We shall see what happens this time as I attempt to be serious. For the first day in, let's say, 787 days I feel nothing. I hear nothing. I have nothing to resear
    10 points
  6. A few months ago, one of the posters here offered some great advice I thought. Type what you intend to say. Set it aside for a few minutes and look at it again before you press "post". Does it really say what I intend for it to say? Does it come across as respectful to the readers? We are in a challenging and painful environment. For some of the posters here, Scouting represents the start of a lifelong nightmare which has been brought once again to the surface. For others, Scouting has been a wonderful, life changing experience full of friendships and good memories. And an im
    10 points
  7. Great - another sit in a class and try to stay awake merit badge. Boy Scouts, in order to differentiate the program in the market place, needs to be action and activity oriented, not more schooling. News flash, there is a ton of sit in class stuff available to youth these days. As has been noted, better solution would have been to work some changes in to the EXISTING Citizenship MB's and move on
    10 points
  8. Taking over? Sounds like it already took over for you. Ask your wife. I know of many people that got in too deep, never said no, got burned out and then got angry. They left scouts, never to help out again and are bitter as well. To be honest, I've seen this often enough that I've come to the conclusion that there's something wrong with the program. It takes too many adults to make it work.
    10 points
  9. After over 4 years of working in the field, today was my last day as a Professional Scouter. It's been an incredible ride, but it's time for me to move on and start the next chapter in my life. Thank you to everyone on this forum over the past years who helped me grow as a Pro. If you ever have any questions about Professional side of Scouting, or "the Dark Side", please don't hesitate to reach out. Volunteers are some of the kindest, most selfless people you will ever meet in this world. It was truly an honor to serve them, and I will miss working with them dearly.
    10 points
  10. I want to apologize for me cussing in my comment last week.I let my anger take control of my response.Please accept my apology.I don't want Scouts to shutdown.Even though I was abused I've seen a lot of good in the Scouts.My scoutmaster God rest his soul was by far the greatest scoutmaster a kid could ask for.I learned a lot from him.I guess my anger flared up when someone said how we want to only talk about the bad well we do.Most victims have been carrying this heavy load for a very long time by ourselves. And speaking for only me, Im 50 years old and I'm finally strong enough to share my st
    9 points
  11. Dr. Doug Kennedy made an impassioned speech to the court and asked the Judge to keep her focus on the survivors as she makes her decision(s). Jessica Lauria thanks the court for the time devoted. A few more letters/filings will come in on the docket including minor changes to the plan (coming in next week). Next Friday will be a general hearing and the only topic is the sale of the BSA distribution center. Judge thanks all of the staff that made this so smooth. Hearing was pulled off very well and great teamwork between firms. February 2020 until mid April 2022. Matter is un
    9 points
  12. Tonight was my last AOL Den Meeting. Scouts have 1 or 2 requirements here and there to complete, but all are essentially done. They are going to start attending Troop Meetings and getting to know the Scouts there. I started with Tigers 4 1/2 years ago. I have 3 Tigers left from that original group that are going to crossover.
    9 points
  13. This is a huge topic, but I agree that a complete review is required. My bio, resume, or whatever it is, on my profile, many positions held for 5 to 15 years simultaneously, I have had extensive experience as a scout, camp and Philmont Ranger Staff (one year responsible for the training of the entire Ranger staff), observing, teaching, and mentoring scouts, my three sons included. I have noted a tremendous diminution in the outdoor skills learned, or that are required to be learned, by scouts. And that few to none have actually mastered them. There is much to be said for requir
    9 points
  14. One of the minor problems I have with this badge, which is the same issue I have with the disability badge, is the requirement to find and talk with someone who is disabled or, in this case, different from you. This kind of turns different scouts, as it does with disabled scouts, into unwitting and perhaps in some cases unwilling "specimens" for investigation to get a badge. We've all had scout who are pretty zealous in their pursuit of knocking off a merit badge requirement. I hope counselors for this badge will talk about tact when seeking out someone to talk to. Not every disabled kid wants
    9 points
  15. Scouter.com is not well liked by National and believe me, while we are all scouters, we have various opinions of BSA. I think if BSA fails, we will help build up a new scouting organization. If you want to know what national thinks of scouter.com just read this article .. https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/tasneemnashrulla/boy-scouts-confusion-about-girls-in-boy-scouts#.pfl5BBjVE We do our best to allow topics to be discussed without editing/censorship. You will find that this forum is much more open than reddit/bsa or reddit/boyscouts or any BSA facebook group. However, there are ti
    9 points
  16. @CynicalScouter Thanks from me and frankly, surely everyone, for tracking on the status of National's bankruptcy pleadings, and the procedural steps, past and pending, in the Bankruptcy case. And your commentary thereon. It is no small task to monitor, summarize, and report on the significance of pleadings filed. Your efforts surely enable many non-lawyers to meaningfully follow along on a largely otherwise indecipherable process. Thank you.
    9 points
  17. We're going to split the ch11.x thread in 2. The original will be kept as it was intended, for the legal aspects of the case and everything else will go here. In a nutshell, if the judge is dealing with the details of it or the lawyers are arguing over it, it goes in the old thread. Everything else goes here. That means if it's about what's morally correct vs legally correct, it goes here. If it's about the future of the chartered orgs, it goes here. If it's about what the BSA knew when, it goes here. If it's about healing, it goes here. If it's about what YP should look like, it goes here.
    8 points
  18. I just finished reading Bates' report. Now I have a headache. It's well-written, but a bunch of spin. So we're too old to deserve a decent settlement? While I get the sol issue, if a suit is valid, there's no telling what a jury would do. My abuser was a BSA employee who signed my merit badge card. So there's not much question as to BSA liability. If they reduce my claim by 90% for sol, then scale it down because I'm old, I just don't know why I'm bothering. Maybe they could add a couple of additional minus-scaling factors and I will owe the BSA. But the concept of this being
    8 points
  19. Looking through the changes, I think BSA avoided controversy which is fine. I really question why we couldn't just add or change a few requirements in Citizenship in the Community and call it a day.
    8 points
  20. No one here, except members who are claimants, have any part of deciding anything in this bankruptcy. Let's drop the personal criticism of others who express in a scoutlike way their differing opinions. Thanks, RS @gpurlee@T2Eagle @Eagle1993 @MattR@elitts
    8 points
  21. I person like the 1952 to 1965 stent where you found your own path outside the first 10. In addition you can make sure there is a diverse skill set earned and only some merit badges qualify in those groups. I feel the system is broken, the current list is boring for many scouts and it emphasizes classrooms vs activities. Im not saying the below is perfect (from 1952) but it is much closer to where we should go vs where we are today Camping, Cooking, Firemanship, First Aid, Life Saving, Nature, Personal Fitness, Public Health, Safety, Swimming, one from the Outdoor Sport
    8 points
  22. Allow me to share a recent experience... I had avoided being an adult leader for many years, despite my natural tendency to answer the call. I really wanted to be a Scouter, but I wanted my kids to get the same benefits of Scouting that I did - namely the opportunity to interact with peers and adults outside my parent's eyes. When I finally volunteered recently it was like the floodgates opened. I'm slated to be the founding Scoutmaster for a Girl's troop that is linked to an established Boy's troop. But on top of that, I wanted to do everything that wasn't currently being done, be
    8 points
  23. @Gilwell_1919 I want to respond to this, but in the proper thread, which is this one. Let's be clear what Kosnoff has said. 1) He had stated that scouting should continue. He's repeated that over and over, but that scouting needs to continue WITHOUT BSA. 2) If you found an organization that had, for 100+ years, aided and abetted in the systematic sexual assault of children AND either a) did nothing or b) did not much, I think a reasonable reaction would be "this organization is so corrupt as to be unsalvagable. Start anew." That, to my ear, is Kosnoff's point. I am not saying
    8 points
  24. May not be a big deal to most people, but my kid was on bacon duty this weekend. He crossed over in March and wont hardly cook at home. We help staff a Cub Family Campout this weekend and the Boy Troop and Girl Troop were both there. I am usually helping the girls and let him go on his own with the boys. Mainly so he starts to learn to do without me always being there to help. In addition to bacon, he also scrambled eggs, and cooked two hamburgers.
    7 points
  25. I think this is the wrong way to look at the problem and is the source of a lot of angst here. Rather than ask for a specific failure rate that is acceptable, after which everyone can say there is no longer a problem, it would be better to use methods that continually drive down failure rates. Look at air travel. Back in the 70's there were enough crashes that all the parties involved (manufacturers, airlines, regulators) got together and decided that air travel was both important and dangerous. They started measuring death rates in deaths per billion passenger miles traveled. I think it start
    7 points
  26. I have mucho thoughts swirling, including whether the documentaries will help the cause of survivors or serve only to make someone (else) money off our backs. That question is really my greatest concern. I'll not go too deep into it now. Before I don't, I must say that survivors and their families are entitled to say whatever they want, provided it's true and accurate. What the filmmakers do with their words and presentations is on them. Woe unto...Will they be held to account for any grand misrepresentations or false implications regarding Scouting, I bet not. Salaciousness, if that's what th
    7 points
  27. Thank you. I edited some of those posts. ~RS
    7 points
  28. Youth members also use this forum, can we please keep the conversations and language respectful of that? Scouting is local, always has been, always will be. And locally, most units operate without any cases of abuse. Nationally the numbers of cases are horrific. But keep in mind they are national numbers, spread over the better part of a century and heavily weighted towards decades in the middle of the 20th century. Today's BSA stands well above most other youth organizations in terms of training and resources to protect youth members. We have a lower incidence of abuse than most oth
    7 points
  29. I am really big on no structure on unit campouts. Especially Pack campouts. Have set meal times. maybe an organized hike during the day, but let em go play in the woods and do what they dont get to do when living in town all the time.
    7 points
  30. One of the things I have always loved about Scouting is the lifelong skill and knowledge development it can provide. I have always believed that the emergency preparedness merit badge is one of the most valuable and useful badges that the BSA offers.. Right now as I type this our community is in a declared state of emergency and under an ice storm warning. The governor is on TV with a live update. Four hundred thousand outages reported in the region. It is raining hard here at our house with temperatures holding at 33 degrees. One degree can make a huge difference. But temperatures wi
    7 points
  31. 1. Pray, you will need it. Scouting is having a very challenging time, and some professionals are not willing to adapt. My current council is getting rid of my District Commissioner, because he is not "effective" serving units as we are not growing in membership and units. We are in the middle of bankruptcy, COs abandoning the program, and a pandemic. Need to focus on existing units that are in trouble, and not starting new units. 2. Listen to your unit leaders. Use those counseling skills learned in WB. 3. Multiply yourself by getting good UCs to help you. 4. DO NOT USE UNIT L
    7 points
  32. @RichardB I know better than to not follow the rules. So I do my best to keep up with BSA policies to the point that I have often had to tell my council's professional staff what is and is not allowed by BSA as they are not aware of the latest rules. My biggest problem is that BSA continues to break the first point of the Scout Law, Trustworthy, with the repeated lie in the FAQ found here https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/prohibited-activities-faqs/ , that "Dodgeball has never been an authorized activity in Scouting." As I have shared with you and others repeatedly THA
    7 points
  33. I'm glad I'm not a scout anymore. I would have been the token minority. I don't think anyone has thought through how those conversations will really happen. Peer pressure is rough and the minority scouts will mostly not be equipped to bring up tough issues in a good way. So they will just gloss over issues they barely understand themselves.
    7 points
  34. I second all of that. Factor in this little story, as well. Add it to the consideration of “who [you] are dealing with” and “Don’t send your Eagle badge back to National. It does not seem to care.” You may or may not have read this post of mine long long ago, but here’s a recap. While in Wilmington applying to be on the TCC, I spoke with a lot of guys. The tension and raw emotion was palpable. Nervous sweat and incredible anticipation. Hopeful, but intensely vulnerable. Attorneys and BSA big-wigs milling about. I connected with one fella who was literally wringing his hands. We got to tal
    7 points
  35. Normally I wouldn't discuss user issues, but given his profile pic and signature I'm going to make an exception: Regardless of the impression given by his profile picture and signature line, CynicalScouter is NOT banned from the forum, or even blocked from posting. He merely received a 1 week penalty that requires his posts be approved by a moderator before they are visible as a result of posting behavior that was un-scoutlike and very near abusive/spamming.
    7 points
  36. Fairness. The post that started this discussion asked whether the LC contributions were fair. There's real fair, and then there's bankruptcy court fair. I haven't seen anyone here express an opinion that real fair is achievable. Bankruptcy court fair is a different thing. The court is about money and nothing else. It is cold and emotionless. In a Chapter 11 case, provided the debtor can demonstrate its viability, the court will protect the debtor's right to emerge from bankruptcy and remain in existence. We, as a people, have created a mechanism that allows a debtor to go t
    7 points
  37. As an old fart, I have a rule regarding volunteering for committees - if the committee does not have a funded budget and I do not have a vote on its spending, I do not serve on that committee. I find it saves my time. @CynicalScouter Agree. If only the BSA did not allow any secret organizations as part ot its program and its organization. Another $0.02,
    7 points
  38. I also was abused at home. Best thing my father ever did was leave. Scouting was my safe place, and all of the adults were positive role models who i can never thank enough. They showed me positive ways of acting and behaving, guided me, and mentored me. Over the years I have encountered many with similar and worse situations. So this is hard on everyone.
    7 points
  39. A few random observations from watching this bankruptcy unfold over the past several months: The focus has clearly been on protecting the national organization first and then the local councils. The appearance that the national BSA has given is that the relationships with the chartered organizations have been an afterthought. What I am seeing playing out on the local level is that several chartered organizations are either planning or discussing dropping Scouting all together and avoiding the facility use option. There is a crisis of confidence and trust that has developed between t
    7 points
  40. Okay. Enough. If you aren't talking about court proceedings then drop it. It would be a shame to lock this thread now.
    7 points
  41. Ugh. Rather than reply to a particular post I’ll just put in on the thread. I’m an amateur at best when it comes to forums. first I’ll state again how I am much impressed with the level of maturity from the survivors responses here. Seeings how most of us are stunted in many ways and have had to fight to learn How to communicate on this topic. And survivors we are. There is no need to victim blame / shame either. We have done that to our selves for all the years that led up to this. Ohh… the things we have gone through on this road that was thrust upon us. From 15
    7 points
  42. The BSA would've been in it's current position regardless of what it did regarding membership policies. The bill for sexual abuse was going to come due regardless.
    7 points
  43. Let's hope that we don't have a group that wants to "re-imagine" the BSA and it's programs. The Cub movement toward heavily family oriented over the last 10 - 15 years was not getting in the droves of new members, adding females (not debating that) also did not result in massive new numbers. BSA needs to play to the strengths. Leadership, skills development, outdoor adventure. Get some ACTUAL marketing going on a LOCAL and NATIONAL level. Sell the program to the Youth with some selling to the parents. Show Youth doing things, going out and having FUN. Troops (can't speak for Cub
    7 points
  44. With respect to the the TCC $103B claim value estimate, it is probably conservative but it is also academic. The BSA's most valuable asset is the insurance. Some councils participated in its insurance program a year or a few prior to 1984 when the national BSA insurance program became mandatory for all councils. Some of the pre-1984 policies named the local councils, troops and camps as "additional insureds." Before the national insurance program was established LC's maintained their own separate insurance. Much less is known about those policies because the LC's have been unwilling or
    7 points
  45. My bet? We’ll never know. They will quietly sneak off the trail via the $3500 spur and go their merry way. There will be valid survivor claimants that exit stage left, as well, not wanting to deal with this any more. Clarity will elude us.
    6 points
  46. The TCC has apparently had enough of Survivors being misled. Just got a message that this video has dropped::
    6 points
  47. Take care, I can see how that might have been overwhelming to you and many others. When I was SM I found that validating a scout's struggle was usually more powerful than trying to help them solve it. You and all the other victims deserve that validation. Not at all. It's why I said it depends on one's opinion before one heard it. If the headlines last more than a few days I'll be surprised. It's not that I don't think this is important. From my point of view this illustrates what is wrong with the BSA across the board. The BSA is as nimble as a ruptured turtle. Sclerotic and i
    6 points
  48. You need to slow down and take a few breaths between reading and typing, you aren't even responding to the right point of outrage here. Eagledad was talking about the Scouting program and the patrol method being a "proven program" NOT the Youth Protections.
    6 points
  49. Hello All. New here-first post. I read these forums for hours and hours, and signed up to post this. So, as I understand the upshot of it all: 1. That National initially indicated that Local Councils would pay nothing and be protected but now the Local Councils are expected to pay $600 million which will result in the sale of hundreds of Local Council Camps and Council offices, though the National High Adventure Camps will be protected and survive. 2. That National initially indicated that Chartering Organizations would pay nothing and be protected but now Chartering Org
    6 points
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