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  1. Hi everyone, it's me, again, a moderator. It seems that the temperature on social media has gone up in the past week. I've seen some really ugly things posted on facebook recently by scouters I know. Bad enough that I'm wondering why I should even be in scouting anymore, much less trying to keep the peace on this forum. But then I remember that scouting is good for the world and I try for another day. While things are not too ugly here, I see people talking past each other. Buried down in the core of this argument is something worth discussing but instead people get hung up on periph
    12 points
  2. What is legally right is not always morally right.
    11 points
  3. Well, most of them aren't very tall to begin with. 😁
    11 points
  4. The bankruptcy discussion is depressing me. So I have need to focus of good news, like last night. While I have been involved in Scouting as a Scouter for almost 30 years now, and have worked with I don't know how many Scouts over the years, last night was special. I sat on an EBOR for a Scout who was in my first Tiger Cub den back in the day. He is the second one in my den to make Eagle (the first being my oldest), and having watched him grow up I am really proud of him. Especially with the challenges at home he faced. This is a young man who will go far in life.
    10 points
  5. So I have been given a lot of awards in scouting. More knots than allowed on a uniform, never thought much about them and kinda blew them off. Well tonight at our Bridge of Honor, I was awarded the Unit Leader Award of Merit. The thing that makes this stand out to me is that I was nominated and recommended for the award by my scouts. That makes it special to me.
    10 points
  6. The SCOUTER.com virtual campfire has been lighting our community now for more than 25 years. It's hard for me to imagine that so much time has passed, and the thousands of Scouts and Scouters around the world that have learned and shared together. These are obviously incredibly trying times for Scouting and enormous transition for the organization. But I have always believed that the very best of Scouting was at the grassroots, found in the mentoring relationship of a leader and young Scout, honed on cold winter campouts and sharpened by the lessons of leadership and service. And these fo
    9 points
  7. Today was a long but good day. My Facebook Memory for today was May 28, 2014. My oldest attended his first PLC as the PL of the New Scout Patrol. i commented how he was a little overwhelmed at times, but represented his patrol well. He did a really good job as PL. So good in fact, that when his term as PL ended, he was nominated for, and won the SPL position, beating out slightly older and experienced Scouts (troop he was in at the time was 2 years olds and the oldest Scouts were 13) Well tonight, he had his Eagle BOR. Paperwork is being cent to the council tomorrow, and onwards for nati
    9 points
  8. As an Eagle Scout, reading through this whole thread has been very disheartening. By way of introduction, I earned my Eagle Scout about fifteen years ago, and I still had enough time left to complete three Eagle Palms. I served variously as Senior Patrol Leader, Assistant Senior Patrol Leader, Patrol Leader, OA Representative, and eventually Vice Chapter Chief and Chapter Chief of my OA Chapter. As Chapter Chief, I helped oversee a yearly Chapter Conclave, sort of a swan song for my Scouting career as I aged out about six weeks later. I even co-taught a course at the University of Scou
    8 points
  9. If the BSA comes out of bankruptcy having managed to hold onto the Summit, while LC's lose their camps, there will be alot of upset local volunteers.
    8 points
  10. I would encourage everyone to not ask @ThenNow to rehash particular circumstances. They can be found by patiently browsing his posts. From what I read, they were far from legal. His claim would have been actionable had he been granted the resilience to act on it.
    8 points
  11. I have major issues with BSA actively entering the political arena. By mentioning B. Taylor, they have gone way beyond selling war bonds and into anti-police propaganda. That is something that they can't take back. I don't think that scouts should actively engage in any social issues. That's not our role. We should be role models for society through our actions, not our words. I don't like forced anything - it reeks of insincerity. If your troop/pack is open to anyone who wants to join up and participate in this organization, then that's all that should be required. We are probably one
    8 points
  12. As I said previously: HIPAA is the most misunderstood law and it has gotten worse since COVID. The HIPAA Rules apply to covered entities and business associates. What is defined as covered entities and business associates? Only three entities A Health Care Provider A Health Plan A Health Care Clearinghouse Are you a health care provider? Are you a health plan? Are you a health care clearinghouse? Here's a handy chart to walk you through it. No? Are you the business associate of any of the above 3? No? Then So, your IT guy M
    8 points
  13. @John-in-KC there was a reduction in the National Council Staff by 110 positions yesterday. These are trying times, I have no desire nor inclination to join the debate or speculation here. Good people, who care about our country, our youth and the program of the BSA are no longer employed. Keep them and Scouting in your thoughts and prayers. RichardB
    8 points
  14. Get rid of popcorn! Sacred Cow that I'd love to be part of the slaughter. We're still in suspension of all in person activities here in MA until June 15, but, yup, today we got the email from Council about the start of the Trail's End selling season...
    8 points
  15. Agreed. Lets rip the bandaid off. We need to put these cases behind us for good, and protect the CO's from potential liability. I hope my council participates in the settlement. Ideally try to keep local camp properties if the council can afford them. I'd be sad to see us lose the HA bases, but they aren't the meat and potatoes like summer camp is. I share @MattRs concern. The program has always been about character building and citizenship development. Camping and outdoor fun is important because it (along with the patrol method) is how we accomplish these bigger goals. If Scoutin
    8 points
  16. Just one, huh? This is kind of like eating potato chips. Proposal #1: refocus every member (employees and volunteers) of the BSA to the core principles of scouting - having fun in the outdoors as a means to develop responsibility and good character. Support #1: The program is the most critical aspect of scouting but it has been watered down because of a lack of focus. Rather, there seem to be silos in the BSA that are diluting the focus. There is advancement, popcorn, making money selling scout stuff, scouting-as-a-way-to-a-better-career, JTE, leave no trace, STEM and just a really b
    8 points
  17. I'll do my best to explain what I have seen in this thread, so hopefully I don't misconstrue the message. The one thing I would say about @ThenNow is that it does seem that he cares about the BSA and sees the value of the program. He has mentioned how impressed he is by what he sees from many of the comments .... volunteers who spend much if not most of their free time working to provide children an experience that is unique and provides life long value. That said, he was sexually abused in the worst way by his Scoutmaster. No one within the BSA prevented it or took action (as far as he ca
    7 points
  18. Scouting was never intended to be family oriented. Scouting was intended to allow youth to develop themselves on their own. It was designed to replace the gangs of Victorian and Edwardian England, and give them a direction and purpose that would make them better citizens. I have seen first hand what can happen with "family Scouting." It is not pretty, and Scouts will leave. They will get fed up by the constant parental interruptions at meetings and on camp outs. They will get fed up with the parents overruling their decisions on their program. They will get fed up with parents allowing th
    7 points
  19. The thing that has bothered and challenged me for a long time is that scouting where I live doesn't even look like our local high school or the local sports leagues, drama clubs, high school bands, etc. in terms of diversity of membership. I live in a pretty median mid-west suburb. If you go to the local high school you see a fair number of kids whose ethnicity is clearly Middle Eastern, Asian, Indian Sub continent, Hispanic, et al. But if you go to our district camporee the ethnicity is almost uniformly white. There's no reason to think there is any disparity between their parents in
    7 points
  20. Here is an Excel plot (with no alterations except to add the title so I cannot be accused of manipulating the graph) of the last 30 years of claims that the TCC was discussing as being so terrible. Certainly, any occurrence of child abuse is too many but the trend is certainly dramatically decreasing. There have been over 2 million members during most of the time of this graph and those members were not static so that every year some join while others leave. Since I do not have actual tenure information, let us assume that the membership turns over every ten years (it is more frequent than
    7 points
  21. In order for BSA to demonstrate that two thirds of its assets are restricted and unavailable to creditors they would need to have been incredibly disciplined in their accounting and bookkeeping over the past century to make sure there was no comingling of the various funds and properties. This is not a habit of mind that I've seen them exhibit in any other sphere of their behavior. I have always thought that one of their weaknesses of BSA as an organization is that virtually everyone in the organization has come up through the ranks and so there is little opportunity for new ideas or dis
    7 points
  22. Too many Americans have been staking out absolute positions and daring others to cross a rhetorical line. Sometimes the rhetoric on even this site has trended in a similar direction, with folks just not showing respect for reasoned but differing views. The divisions that evolve reduce our confidence in our nation's Constitution, and similarly in the fundamental approaches in Scouting. The WWII combat veterans who were the Scoutmasters and Skippers of my youth were not that way. They fought hard in a war to ease my way through life, and Boy Scouts and Sea Scouts helped make me what I hope i
    7 points
  23. My dad was a retired Navy Chief. I can hear him saying, "don't call me Sir...I work for a living." (or worse)
    7 points
  24. IMHO it would also be a good time to rethink "Eagle required" merit badges - subject areas, number, difficulty...
    7 points
  25. One of the Scouting FB groups that had these requirements posted, took down the post and 153 (last time I looked) comments down and is asking folks to report anyone who does post them. Sounds Orwellian to me. I think that they did not like the negative feedback they were receivint about this MB. One poster pointed out that Disabilities Awareness covered a lot of the topics in DEI, yet it was never Eagle required. He stated it is purely a political MB in his opinion. And considering that the requirements have not been approved 11 days before go live and no MB pamphlets for this MB
    7 points
  26. This is a general post, my first on the forum. I have read this thread from the beginning. If you have access, of which I'm unsure as a newbie, you can see my background. I'm both a former high-achieving Scout and Sexual Abuse Survivor Claimant in the Chapter 11. I have many thoughts on this matter overall. Most notably, the potential for Scouting to survive and how the case has evolved, especially as it concerns the incredible - and I use the word advisedly and specifically - number of claims. Like many of you and others I know, my expectation was to see a maximum number of 5,000-10,000
    7 points
  27. Let's start with the "equity" portion. Equity is an impossible goal to achieve. No matter how we strive we will never achieve equal outcomes. The goal of "equity" is a myth, an impossible achievement cooked up by Marxists/Postmodernists. We will ALL make choices in our lives that result in fortunate/unfortunate outcomes. In the US, the VAST majority of what we achieve is due to our personal choices, not the opinions of others. DEI philosophy is not merely "creating a culture that welcomes and respects diverse perspectives" or "creating a sense of belonging and build communities where eve
    7 points
  28. Likewise. Which is all I'm looking for. But by the chosen phrasing, I fear that this is NOT what we are seeing. If "white privilege"/"check your privilege" or "systemic racism" is brought up as a given fact they have to learn about, then we are in an unnecessary fight. BSA has already put out a press release supporting BLM and IMMEDIATELY turned off all commenting. They stated "We condemn the murders of George Floyd, Ahmaud Arbery, Breonna Taylor..." Taylor's death was NOT murder and George Floyd's death is under dispute. We should NOT be involving ourselves in these matters with
    7 points
  29. In the context of this lawsuit, the BSA isn't rotten, nor does it have a dark side. The organization has given society a program that only intends to build better citizens. It is that simple. People can be rotten and induce a dark side of themselves on unsuspecting innocent families, but that has nothing to do with the BSA or it's programs. If one can't see this reality, they likely need to get as far away as possible so as not to pollute the minds of the innocent. There is no doubt in my mind that if the good of scouting from it's beginning could be measured against the bad th
    7 points
  30. I don't think the concern is that GS posted the 5 justices. I think the concern is that the GS took down the post as a result of "woke" pressure because one of the justices was Amy Coney Barrett.
    7 points
  31. Last night we had an adult leader meeting. Our CM has been very busy with work and family responsibilities. We gave her a report on our successful Summit Merit Badge Camp and Northern Tier trip. We did Philmont last year and she asked us to compare it to Northern Tier. They're very different adventures. I loved Philmont and Northern Tier. One thing that was common about Summit and NT this year was the lack of program. I know some won't want to hear this, but it was a great thing. Hear me out. Normally at Summit they have evening program. This year, the scouts were free to do wh
    7 points
  32. There can be no doubt that BSA refusal to include homosexuals or girls until forced to do so due to social and financial pressure has had an impact on membership. It might not have affected it in terms of scouts immediately withdrawing, but it has definitely had an impact on recruitment and image. Its recalcitrance definitely cost BSA financial support from such high profile donors as the United Way to Levi Strauss. Why would that happen if not a reflection of increasingly negative public opinion? In the nearly 20 years I've been involved in scouting, I've seen schools gradually cut involvemen
    7 points
  33. Actually wrote a article for my district newsletter about this topic. Encouraging Troops to get out, use the patrol method, and follow council and local guidelines. I've copied it here: "As our units start up fall programing during COVID 19, we are faced with a great opportunity to embrace a core aspect of the Scouting program: The Patrol Method. Robert Baden Powell was once quoted “The patrol method is not a way to operate a Boy Scout Troop, it is the only way. Unless the patrol method is in operation you don’t really have a Boy Scout Troop.” A patrol, a group of eight or so Sc
    7 points
  34. Old Eagle Scout and new Lion Dad here... I’m jumping back into scouting with a kindergarten daughter. That’s not something I would have ever dreamed of when I was a scout, and I couldn’t be more excited. Scouting absolutely prepared me for life... and the Air Force Academy, 7 years on active duty, 4 (and counting) in the reserves, Wall Street, and everything in between. What else provides kids an opportunity to camp, hike, shoot, swim, sail, ride... and learn to lead and be good people along the way? If that’s what you’re looking for, you’re in the right place. It’s only been a few w
    7 points
  35. IMHO. There have been way too many scouters who think every Eagle project should be something more than a scout and his buddies slapping together a nice looking bench in a public location. I have more trouble with projects that are barn-raisers that take thousands of man-hours where the scout’s hand on the tiller seemed incredibly light.
    7 points
  36. Don't fall for it. The council doesn't have the authority. The council can't force a Chartered Organization to accept anyone in their unit. If the parent doesn't like your unit, invite them to go elsewhere.
    7 points
  37. First, we had a fantastic time. Really, it couldn't have been better. Second, I'll post the route we did later. I intentionally let the scouts and interpreter deal with that. We left Springfield, VA, flew from Reagan National Airport direct to MSP. We rented a 15 passenger van for our crew of 8 and gear and drove 4 hours to Virginia, MN. Not sure why we did that to just end up in Virginia again. Virginia is the closest town with national hotel chains. We stayed at the AmericInn with a great view of the railroad tracks. Well, my room did. Get the front of the hotel to be away from
    7 points
  38. Not sure scandalous conveys the true stupidity that is The Summit. What was billed as a donation and 4th Crown Jewel is a grossly underused and over developed vanity project. Basically a development looking for relevance. Why is the BSA bankrupt? Look no further than $500 - $750 million shoved down a rat hole in West Virginia
    7 points
  39. When I was a scout in the 1980s, I was a member of a troop that was not diverse, not because of anything that the Scouts had done, but because I grew up in an area where African American families were redlined out of their ability to live for an extended period of time. I didn't know that as a young scout, though as I got somewhat older and learned some of the complicated history of race and politics in the area I came to understand that the way things were when I was a kid depended on things that had been done many years before. It wasn't a value judgement about my troop or its actions, it
    7 points
  40. The main problems with the "local option" argument are: 1.That is exactly what allowed segregation to exist in BSA troops until the 1970s. 2. Hypocritically, it was some outside COs, troops, councils,... who pushed the "no gay scouts & leaders" doctrine to disallow gay scouts and scouters in troops which were not theirs. The Dale case was the result. We know the rest. I understand some have significant personal objections regarding those who are gay. There were those who had significant objections to mixed race troops too. It took 50 years and we are mostly past the latter.
    7 points
  41. Why would the BSA feel the need to wade into this? Does National not know the Scout oath and the Scout law? I just marked a Scouts rank advancement tonight about how he lives the law and the oath in his daily life. As Scouts that is what we are called to do. Does National not think we take take the law and the oath seriously. We must all share in the collective guilt, right. Purely political. Sad.
    7 points
  42. I hope that being back on topic is not the kiss of death. 🤪 Baden-Powell developed a game with a purpose. Now we seek to preserve the game in order to continue fulfilling the purpose. Before BSA decides to "pivot from valuing the past," like the outdoor program, or sacrifices the outdoor program as a "sacred cow" no longer relevant to a couch-sitting, screen-watching society, let's consider how we might keep it: How do we take urban and suburban youth (and parents) who have no use for camping and hiking (if they even knew how) and lure them out into the wild? These days, youth w
    7 points
  43. This sub thread to "major changes announced - councils impacted" sounds like a question of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. So, putting on my moderator hat, let's just have our better angels out on the dance floor. There are protests, violence, frustration, fear, a pandemic and a whole lot of anger going on in our nation. If there's ever a time for the Scout Oath and Law it's right now. I seem to have lost my cheerful. Has anyone seen it? It's probably with my glasses.
    7 points
  44. Where to begin. I no longer trust professionals in general. This is sad because I used to be one, and know there are some out there who do care about the movement. But they either burn out trying to have a successful program and meet goals, get frustrated and leave, or get corrupted by the system in order to advance. I have seen proffessionals at the council level ignore the long time volunteers who know the program, know the community, and have established relationships that can build the movement. And the movement suffers with a loss of experienced volunteers who made it successful.
    7 points
  45. When those of us here on the forums gripe about Family Scouting, we aren't talking about girls, or families renting a campsite at camp outside of summer camp. We're talking about the BSA encouraging families to attend monthly troop outings. Most of us have seen it in our units, or others. It's normally a mess of helicopter parenting and demotivated youth. It breaks down the patrol method, and stifles team development and learning of self sufficiency. Nothing wrong with a parent coming along to volunteer or observe. I imagine the idea of having families camp at the summer camp while the p
    7 points
  46. The idea that YPT is a feature of the program seems to be a very unfortunate, yet common viewpoint today. YPT is certainly a critical component of BSA activities, but a "feature"? When you start getting to a point where limitations and risk mitigation requirements are viewed as features, it's a pretty sad state of affairs. That's like choosing a school for your kids based upon the fact that they have metal detectors, bulletproof glass and regular armed patrols in the hallways. What's worse is that the stepped up rules changes aren't even to combat current problems with the program, they a
    7 points
  47. This is the part of the forum to welcome new members. Coming into this forum and telling a new, enthusiastic parent that: Is just picking on a new member. You want to have that conversation, go over to Issues and Politics and we can hash that out again. I think we've had that conversation there 10 or 20 times now. I'm not even going to get into the merits of your argument here because the "New to the Forum" section where someone else is introducing themselves isn't the place for that.
    6 points
  48. Hey everyone, moderator here. This thread is a bit past Courteous. Comments are getting personal. I'd say the easiest way to fix it is to walk away from it for a day. YIS, MattR
    6 points
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