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About MikeS

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  1. MikeS


    Yes, we use hand drums and flute as the Candidates proceed to the ceremony ring - it's a long path through the woods so plenty of places to situate oneself unseen by the Candidates, but the music heard by all who are in the area. It works quite nice if players are familiar with the instruments and are actually playing a piece and not just making 'sound'. We have a huge hand drum that is used for some ceremonies which, on a quiet night on a lakefront, can be heard for quite some distance.
  2. Guess I don't really see what the big concern is with coed rules and the like - there has been co-ed Scouting in the US since the 50's; the Polish and Ukrainian Scouts (ZHP and Plast, respectively) have been coed in this country since they "moved" here in the 1950's - not sure why we just don't confer with them to see how they've been dealing with these issues for the past several decades in the US. I'm sure they've figured out most of the 'bugs' by now. Ukrainian "Plastunka" - female member of 'Plast' Polish ZHP (Hufiec/Council "Warmia" I'm sure they could offer a ton of info - Just sayin'
  3. MikeS

    OA and the aboriginal cultures

    If it is done correctly, I don't see it as an issue. Many regalia pieces are based on historic pieces and are meticulously researched. Some are even more "authentic" and historically correct (in not only appearance but construction) than what many actual tribal members will wear to a typical Pow Wow. If done correctly and respectfully, complaints are pretty rare around my neck of the woods. That entails actually learning the culture and learning what is appropriate and what is not. That said, you do see the "Chief Wannabe" types as well, which unfortunately give the Order a bad name.
  4. MikeS

    A Lënape Carol

    Here's a popular Christmas Carol translated into the Northern Unami dialect of Lenape (the dialect the OA borrowed from). Enjoy! Lënape Carol.pdf
  5. MikeS

    Integration and Ceremonies

    Obviously, the names of the Principals may need reconsideration - 'Guide' would still be okay for either male or female, all other "positions" though were typically male. You could, of course, have a female Medicine Woman, but you couldn't keep the Lenape name as it refers strictly to a male.
  6. Considering most Scouting in the world is co-ed, I think it's about time we jumped into the current century. Why would it not be possible to see how other countries that have had co-ed Scouting for years and years deal with it. In fact Polish Scouts and Ukraine Scouts are actively established right here in the US (a fall out from WWII, I believe) - 'ZHP' and 'Plast' are both co-ed, and right here in the US - why not learn from them??
  7. MikeS

    Proud of our ceremonies team

    As Teams become more "well known" in their district (and even out of district), it's not at all uncommon to get multiple requests in the same day. Kudos for your Team handling the scheduling snafu so well (but get used to it - it does indeed happen). Our guys have a tradition this time of year - when we have two 'back to back' ceremonies, they do not change out of regalia, rather they proceed to a local McDonalds, walk in (a la full regalia) and order Shamrock shakes. Funds are generally in one of their many pouches. I can just imagine the look behind the counter:) Whatever works!
  8. MikeS

    Ordeal Ceremony Sequence

    Night time seems to be the general consensus with which I totally agree; the Ceremonies as written (particularly Ordeal) are really not written for a "daylight" performance.
  9. MikeS

    Ordeal Ceremony Sequence

    CalicoPenn and Oldscout448, Yeah, oftentimes I suspect it's the kitchen crew who actually determines when the ceremonies are held! Typically, they have an idea of when dinner will be ready and it's almost up to the adult ceremonies advisor to then determine when the ceremonies will be held. It's totally ridiculous. With the change, the kitchen crew could do dinner whenever they wanted to since the ceremonies would not happen until later in the evening. Totally agree - some of Meteu's lines sound ludicrous at 5:00 pm in bright daylight and even worse at our past Fall Lodge Conference (they decided to offer an Ordeal Weekend as well) this past weekend when the ceremony was at about 2:30! Just kills it completely!
  10. MikeS

    Ordeal Ceremony Sequence

    Thanks Calico Penn - that's kind of what I suspected, i.e. not policy, but rather guideline only. Hope we can get it changed in our Lodge. The issue would be logistics I suspect and I'm sure we'll get flack from someone, but at least it's something that is not etched in stone and can't be changed - really good to know.
  11. MikeS

    Ordeal Ceremony Sequence

    Should have added - yes, we also do Brother hood Ceremony before the Ordeal one. Oftentimes, there are multiple B-hood and multiple Ordeal Ceremonies done.
  12. MikeS

    Ordeal Ceremony Sequence

    Thanks for the comments - very interesting! Obviously it's something that IS done. I'm curious if any of you know how your Lodge sort of, I hesitate to use the phrase, "gets around" National's (I don't know if it's actual policy, so I'll call it "concept") concept of maintaining the "official sequencing" of the Ordeal weekend such that the Ceremony should be done then the banquet?? Has there ever been any opposition in your Lodge from the adult Ceremonies Advisor ?? One of the reasons I ask is that we have a Ceremonies Advisor who is sort of the "Ceremony Police" (I'll be nice) who is VERY insistent on following National's policy/guidelines (are they just guidelines??) so it would be convincing him that this is a viable option and many lodges do actually do it (despite what National policy may be). I'm totally on board with the rescinding the pledge of silence for a few hours a little before and during the banquet then all meeting in one place and going back to silence until the Ceremony. Just trying to come up with the logistics and ideas various Lodges do regarding this and to see if any Lodges DO do it this way. Thanks!!
  13. Hello All, A quick question on the Ordeal Ceremony or perhaps I should say Ordeal “Sequenceâ€. I’ve heard of some Lodges doing the Ceremony after the banquet – wondering if your Lodge does this and how it’s done. The reason I ask is that I’m a huge fan of having the Ceremonies at night when it’s dark out rather than during the day. To me a daylight Ceremony is rather anticlimactic – it’s just not the same, nor is it nearly as impressive. One way to sort of “get around†this is to have the banquet first then after wards do the Ceremony later on when it’s dark out. I live in northern New England so “dark†in the September time frame (when we have our Fall Ordeal) it’s generally dark around 7:30-ish. Our Spring Ordeal is done in May, so it’s quite a bit later before it gets dark enough. Are there Lodges out there that do this – have the Ceremonies after the banquet so they can be done at night?? What are the logistics behind it?? How do you do it??? I realize that (I think) National policy as far the sequence of events dictate the ceremony is first then the banquet, but I’ve heard a lot of Lodges do it in reverse. Is National more or less a “guidelineâ€??? Thanks!
  14. MikeS

    OA Grace

    Thanks - it's amazing how long it takes to translate what is seemingly a rather straightforward and simple text in English. Lenape doesn't quite work as easily as European languages do I was fortunate to be able to get help with it and glad I was able to do translations in both Unami dialects. Southern is easier, but not the dialect the OA borrowed its Lenape nomenclature from; it was Northern.
  15. MikeS

    OA Grace

    @ Cchoat - yes, that's the one. We've started to use it for similar events - Ordeal weekends, Conclaves, Lodge Conferences, etc. @@Hedgehog - It looks like you can attach files here, so...I've attached the document. Guess I'll have to see if it can be opened, etc. OA Grace - Lenape 1.pdf