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ParkMan last won the day on August 14

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About ParkMan

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  1. ParkMan

    possible fee increase coming

    I'm guessing $5 a month - $60 a year. From everything I hear, $33 to $48 is too small a jump.
  2. National needs to fix the Scouting image problem before this will be doable. I predict at most 0.1% participation.
  3. Hi @Calion, This is a great list! I really like all the details at each step. Like others, I think that there will be a lot of fluidity in the ordering of the steps. Yes - there is a basic order to this, but depending on the strengths of the group and your particular situation, you may choose to do things in a difference sequence. One way I think about this is in the terms of basic goals a unit's team needs to accomplish. If I think of the goals I'd use then map your steps into it, I get: Make your plans 1. Decide what kind of unit you want to start Find a CO 2. Find a chartering organization. 3. Appoint a Chartered Organization Representative. Build your adult core team 4. Appoint a Committee Chair. 5. Get trained. 6. Recruit a Troop Committee. 7. Train the Troop Committee. 8. Select and recruit adult leaders. 9. Train the adult leaders. 10. Complete Youth Protection Training. 11. Get uniformed. Setup the unit’s infrastructure 12. Establish an online presence. 13. File the paperwork. 14. Present the Charter 17. Raise money. Recruit youth & get going 15. Recruit Scouts. 16. Have your first troop meeting. 18. Get the Scouts trained. 19. Set the Scouts loose. Continue to improve 20. Keep learning. 21. Have fun! While I think things will generally go in this order, I do believe that if you've got more than one or two adults, you might break this up into some parallel efforts. For example - a couple of folks could be working on adult recruiting while some others are getting the website & paperwork started.
  4. ParkMan

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    I'm not a wizard on council finances - but I can only imagine that councils are being forced to pay more for upkeep and perhaps leases than years ago. It would seem to me that with the age of most of our councils, the council camps would all have been long paid for. Money would just go to pay for staff, upkeep, and future improvements. Yet, I know that even in my pretty big council summer camp fees don't pay for that. Maybe when we were kids the level of expectation for a camp was much less and the councils had to sink less money into the,. Not sure.
  5. ParkMan

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    I do feel the plight of these small councils as I know it's getting harder and harder to keep paying for these camps. But, they've got to find a way here that doesn't involve burning out their members.
  6. ParkMan

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    These councils are not doing themselves any favours. They think that they are protecting their facilities by forcing people to use them. But, in turn, all they are doing is eroding the perceived value that units derive from council support. Councils need to get units to their camp on the merits of their camps - not by making it the only option. I agree - at this point in the history of Scouting councils need to learn to partner with the units - not try to control the units. Build bridges to the units, don't put up more obstacles.
  7. ParkMan

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    Gotta admit - this frustrates me to no end. What a ridiculous abuse of the rules to control the list of approved sites so that only council approved sites are permitted. We routinely camped at state parks and they worked great. If councils are going to abuse the system like this, I really wish someone at national would in turn relax the rules.
  8. ParkMan

    Webelos insignia on tan uniform

    Here's the quote from the Insignia Guide So, given that the Welebos diamond was wearable on a tan uniform at the time, it's still wearable if you can get one.
  9. ParkMan

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    Thanks @RichardB I think many are on edge these days. As I'm sure you know, there is a lot of concern about erosion of program. I'm reaidng between the lines here and am guessing we overreacted to the term "overnighter". If "overnighter" refers to the of sleeping overnight and doesn't mean that it's single overnight - great. Personally - I don't think we need more definition, I'd just remove the term overnighter. Camping implies sleeping overnight in the woods. "overnighter" suggests one night. I'd offer the terms that make the most sense to volunteers are: .den camping pack camping council organized camping Now that I read this again, I realize that there is an effort to overnghter to distinguish from day camps. I don't think it's needed. If one said "pack camping", I think we all understand that implies spending the night.
  10. ParkMan

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    This is a big deal because it directly contributes to weaker Cub Scout programming. I served in a pack where 80% of our camping trips were two nights. Occasionally we'd have a one nighter for some reason or another, but it was rare. The reason to have a two night camping trip is that it allows for a single, full day at camp. A Cub Scout wakes up at the camp, get's ready at the camp, has breakfast at the camp, does a day of activities, and so on. When you turn that into a single overnighter, then it decreases the time available for the Scout to grow more comfortable in the outdoors. This is why council cuborees do just this. In my experience, an active Cub Scout program is a great way to prepare Scouts, parents, and potential leaders for an active Scouts BSA program. We had numerous parents who had never camped join us when their sons were Tigers. We'd find them a tent, they'd scare up some sleeping bags, and away we'd go. In the process, the parents also learned a lot about camping. So, by the time their son got to Scouts BSA they'd be very comfortable outdoors. It also challenged us as a pack to know how to prepare for a big trip. We'd had gear, plenty of cooking equipment, we knew how to run an all day program. We've been around for enough years that this was built up over time. So, when that two night camping trip came up in the fall, you can rest assured that it was very well planned and executed. In fact our Cub leaders often go on to be BALOO trainers themselves because they learn how to run a well oiled Cub Scout camping trip. Maybe the BSA is really worried about Cub Scout packs who don't know how to run a two night trip. If so, then apply the correct remedy. Have "BALOO 2" or have some kind of district camper certify the unit. It's not really a hard problem to solve here. Frankly - the BSA needs to stop responding to all of this stuff by dumbing down the program. Isn't that the lesson of the Improved Scouting Program of the 70s?
  11. I have two daughters and a son. I am very protective of all of them. I think this is where YPT in the BSA can serve another beneficial purpose. In the GSUSA, the rules about male involvement have all but removed fathers from the equation. My two daughters are Girl Scouts and I have never been welcomed in their Scouting experience. It so saddens me that even my wonderful, progressive wife who is a Girl Scout leader has so totally embraced the concept that Girl Scouting is about women guiding girls through Scouting. Yet, my son's Cub Scout Pack & Scouts BSA Troop for boys have an adult leadership team that is about 40% female. It has created a wonderful environment where countless mothers, fathers, and their sons can enjoy Scouting together. It's been such a wonderfully welcoming environment that we've often had female siblings tag along. So, because of how inclusive the BSA has been, I totally get why we now have girls in the program. I also understand why the GSUSA never will have boys in their program. Now that we have introduced female Scouts, the BSA has a wonderful opportunity to provide the same welcoming environment for female youth. I will admit that I do not know numbers - but I have to imagine that a group of adult males will be just as trustworthy taking a group of girls camping as they would with female adults present. Whether it's groups of boys or girls, most Scouting units are composed of parents. Yes, at the Scouts BSA level, there are more volunteers who are either young adults or adults who's parents have aged out. But, for the most part it's parents like me who want to Scout with their children. I would love to have the opportunity to Scout with my 10 year old daughter. So, when I saw the BSA rules that required female leaders, I was very disappointed. Because I've been a Cub Scout leader, I know that the Cub program is very family involved. You absolutely have lots of both mothers & fathers present. In Scouts BSA it will be the same thing. Just as we have 40% female adults in the troop leadership team today, so too would I expect that we'll have 40% males in a troop for girls without any new BSA rules So, I see these rules a something of the BSA falling into the same trap as the GSUSA. That men are dangerous and we need women there to keep girls safe. This is an unfortunate social construct that we keep teaching generation after generation. Here the BSA can leverage all the YPT training, backgrounds checks, COR oversight, and benefit of troops with established track records to let girls and their parents know that they will be just fine with adult men taking girls camping. I feel for you @Sentinel947. Breaks my heart too to see your post. For my part, I accept the YPT rules and do embrace them to the fullest. But, I really do wish the BSA would sit down with some experts and rethink this message that they are sending to girls, mothers, and their fathers.
  12. ParkMan

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    Gotta admit - I'm usually the one sticking up for National too. Yeah - pretty sad when I'm asking that question. I missed that policy change on Webelos and camporees - ugh. Again - I respect what the professionals are being asked to do. But, really - one night Cub Scout campouts? But really - ponder the thought...
  13. I expect you're right. However, that's the wrong way for the BSA to react. I can understand if the BSA is responding to requests of underwriters. Buy, then the BSA needs to apply the rules equally. If the underwriters decide that the BSA needs 10 deep leadership in a troop for girls, then by golly make it 10 deep leadership for everyone. I respect our professionals - but think they need to be thinking about the messages they are sending. BTW - there is no discussion about 10 deep leadership. Just using a ridiculous idea to make the point
  14. ParkMan

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    Ok - sorry, I posted too quickly as I was so sure this was the sort of bad rumor that floats around and is simply not true. My son's pack always had two night pack campouts. We attended cuborees that were two nights as well. Two night campouts in Cub Scouts are so common around here to the point where one night cub scout camping is the exception. I cannot fathom what this section in the G2SS is even attempting to say. That Lions through Bears should only camp one night at a time? Is the BSA crazy?
  15. ParkMan

    Limit for Cub Scout nights of camping

    Thank them very much for their input and then camp two nights. There's no such rule. There's no such difference defined anywhere. "family" and "pack" are simply common terms. The only rules that apply are the Cub Scout camping rules where there are no such rules on duration.