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  1. My favorite events are ones where I can just show up with my son and be a dad. I would gladly pay more in fees if it resulted in better, more frequent program opportunities at the council and district levels (unclear if that's the case). I'm a pretty frugal guy with a regular job and $165 doesn't seem that ridiculous by today's standards. Anyone else ashamed to admit what they spend on youth sports or their pets? 🙂
    3 points
  2. Ah, just not a simple label. Now we see clearly? Remember, it is against the law to remove some labels, or so it is said. 🙄
    2 points
  3. Okay, while I may be one of the few that might recall, but we are verging on the circus that the Forum shared when Bob White and our resident "Atheist" of the time exchanged loud typing. Reality, at least to me, is that IF we care about those building blocks on which Scouting is set, and IF we "do our best" to adhere to them, then we will serve the youth and society in a good way. Sadly, much of today's society does not appear to be ready for the balance that those ideals noted represent. Back to the Golden Rule and similar concepts. I fear some have possibly breached on here the thing we t
    2 points
  4. "Heck, I'd even support liberals if they ever wanted to join scouting." Guess I will need to scan through this, but wanted to just note, perhaps already done, that being Liberal or Conservative or something between has nothing to do with someone having an interest in Scouting. I probably know more people that would be "labeled" as that than would be labeled otherwise, all of whom support the basic ideals of Scouting and strive to grow the newer generations.
    2 points
  5. Please remember, the folks who pushed for the membership changes internally by your logic should have removed themselves, or been removed by BSA long before the membership changes happened.
    2 points
  6. Isn't that what the topic is? It sounds like members have an issue with them in Scouting period, not necessarily in their unit or CO. Which goes back to my original point. What the CO decides is correct, however, your CO's decision doesn't speak for the entire organization, which is what is happening here.
    2 points
  7. The way I see it, when you register (or re-register) as an adult leader, you are agreeing to uphold the decisions and responsibilities mandated by the organization, regardless of your personal feelings. If you can't do that, then you leave the organization (like so many already have) and carry on with your life. No different from any other private membership organization. Yes, change takes time. But getting use to the change and refusing to are completely separate feelings. And in the eyes of the organization, they are going to move on with or without you.
    2 points
  8. I'm not sure that's a great example to pick, because when Tigers were added to the program, verbal or physical threats weren't made against those children by other scouts or adult leaders. I don't know why people think it's OK though when it's about girls. Protecting children shouldn't require discussion. It's not censure ship to expect that registered and trained youth leaders in a youth organization protect and support the youth in their care.
    2 points
  9. Change is indeed painful but we are talking about adult leaders who are responsible for children so there really isn't much leeway to accommodate adult issues. Adults who resent the presence of some of the children they are supposed to be supporting and protecting probably shouldn't be in the organization six years in no matter what other value they bring.
    2 points
  10. A Sea Scout on his way home from a doctor, stepped into action when he noticed his school bus broken down on the side of the road. Great story , there is some train 'em and trust 'em in story. Read the rest at sources: https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/student-school-bus-repair-danvers-essex-tech-gavin-natti/ https://www.facebook.com/seascoutshipno.5/
    2 points
  11. That might have made sense the first year as people adjusted, but it has been six years and girls are nearly fully integrated into scouting. The fact that adult leaders, who are in charge of girls' safety and well being, are still allowed to hold such positions while espousing those views is a Youth Protection failure, not dissent. Keeping struggling units alive isn't an acceptable excuse. If old time leaders haven't worked it out by now to the point where they can accept it and focus on the kids then they shouldn't be responsible for them in scouting. We don't tolerate leaders with out of dat
    2 points
  12. Boy Scout Troop 47's Mighty Duck Patrol all earn LIfe rank. Scout Salute! More at source: https://www.times-herald.com/arts_and_community/mighty-duck-patrol-simultaneously-reaches-rank-of-life-scout/image_1c3ab2d8-f2b8-11ee-893f-8f204c1509a5.html
    2 points
  13. I'm suggesting it's OK for adults to express reservations about membership changes online or in a Zoom meeting, provided it's done in a tactful manner. There is no need to "crack down" on them unless their comments target specific youth members or are deliberately hurtful. If you feel a youth in your area has been treated unfairly, by all means intervene on their behalf. Scouting would not exist in some communities today were it not for some of these "old school" scout leaders. Change takes time and I'm not sure you can get there by extinguishing dissent.
    2 points
  14. So the boy units who have the exact same problem are left out again. There are lots of boy units who have the exact same problem, especially in the inner city, like Charlotte where that council is located. You would think that they would open it to all new troops. Might be a great way to get boys off the streets and into the woods.
    2 points
  15. I have to take back my outrage at that specific girls-only camporee. Just in case there was some additional context, I reached out to the organizer, and it turns out that the camporee is there to solve the problem of weak scoutcraft experience among both scouts and leaders. I had most of the facts, I just didn't put them together in a way to predict the problem because of my own scouting and family backpacking experience, including my current scouting involvement in a family pack with family dens where girls and boys learn the exact same scoutcraft skills, hike the same miles, set up the
    2 points
  16. @AwakeEnergyScouter, having grown wiup in a troop from a small-town (plenty of farm boys) and interacting with boys from troops of more urban areas, I kind of got the impression that our SM often picked the more remote campsites at summer camp and camporees. That might have been partly because some of the boys (yours truly excepted) were pretty rowdy. But it could have also been that some leaders absolutely needed more immediate access to showers, or needed weekends with a cabin (something our troop never spent a night in), or some other amenity. We took some pride in being that little bit mor
    2 points
  17. It sucks. I don’t mind, but I have a job where these fees aren’t hard for me to pay AND I already buy into the program. The hard part is when someone is new, when a person can’t really afford the fees, or when a unit doesn’t have the funds to pay for the adults. So, this really hinders growth since the growth comes at the margins, not from existing members. The $25 fee that is now gone, was a good example. “Let’s make it more expensive for new people, that will be a great way to get new people to sign up.” Sure. Great plan.
    2 points
  18. IMHO every issue should be reviewed to confirm that. I do not think we should take comfort by saying, to paraphrase, "We have the best YP...". I would rather hear We are constantly reviewing our YP procedures policies and procedures by examining incident reports with YP experts. Here is a link to our YP Committee reports on actions for those incidents, including legal actions, and legislation lobbying. My $0.02,
    2 points
  19. As a Scouter, what outcomes do feel are the best measure of success for a troop? What makes you feel good about the program? I don't mean JTE, but what personally do you strive for?
    1 point
  20. My unit doesn't give a percentage, per se.... Rather, after fundraising is done and all the unit expenses are paid for, we take the remaining funds (if any) and decide how much we want to give to FOS.
    1 point
  21. 1 point
  22. While visiting Councils, I hope Mr. Krone converses with volunteers beyond photo-ops. We have a lot to talk about. IMHO, seize this opportunity. Then BSA CSE Bob Mazzuca did a similar traveling community fundraiser for councils, it was dinners though. He brushed off volunteer questions in favor of photo-ops. My scouts were more interested in photo-ops with another attendee - Miss New Hampshire* who btw would take our questions. Mr. Mazzuca soon departed for his next Council dinner. My $0.02,
    1 point
  23. I feel this so much where I'm at. This statement right here is 100% true. As a pack, we have done all we can do make the program as "free" as possible. This includes offering sponsorships for families with multiple youth and just can't afford it, paying for all the program fees, reducing the "requirement" for a complete uniform, and doing away with annual unit dues. Luckily, we have lots of participation with fundraisers and this is the only way we can keep the program affordable in our rural town. Sometimes, I feel like we are doing what the council should be doing. Right now, we'
    1 point
  24. We are in a high military concentration area. While the Scouts were gathering on the parking lot for our weekly meeting one summer evening, a young man stopped in, saying he was a Eagle Scout in the Navy and wanted to get back to Scouting. Seemed nice enough. I tried contacting his home Council (Caddo) SE and never got a response to verify his creds. I had given him an app and explained that he couldn't participate until the background checks were done and he had council approval. Never saw him after that. I will always wonder if we dodged a bullet, or did we miss an opportunity.
    1 point
  25. On so many forums, the word "liberal" is used in a negative, derisive, derogatory sense. And the term for the opposite of "liberal" is…? That term does not seem to be used at all. I am not interested in starting an interminable political debate, just to obtain folks' definitions of "liberal" and whatever the antonym is ("conservative?")
    1 point
  26. It depends on the interpretation of threats. I believe that bringing in girls has created, well lets just say a less welcoming environment for boys. There have been several discussions over the years of how adults are pushing the girls program and performance over the boy's program. And there was even mention of how the differences between girls and boys put the boys at a disadvantage in this program. I stand for the fairness and safety of all the scouts. But, in these discussions, it is fairness and safety of the boys' side of scouts. I understand that emotions are powerful for forcing c
    1 point
  27. I prefer this version of Norman Rockwell's Freedom of Speech. Others may disagree, let them. Moderator awareness... IMMO*, some informative, robust yet scoutlike discussion here. Thank you. RS * In My Moderator Opinion
    1 point
  28. Fine and dandy seeing the blog post about it, but then not following up with any more information a month later is annoying, but I suppose par for the course...
    1 point
  29. I'm guessing that things will change as current youth members age into Scouters if they stay involved in Scouting, but probably nowhere near as quickly as other people may want. Every time a scout goes to a World Jamboree, they see plenty of people their age in co-ed contingents, and will have for years, with how long UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc have been co-ed in all scouting levels. At some point, I would guess, Scouts BSA will change AoL from single gender dens to co-ed, in preparation for Troops going co-ed with them as they cross over the next year. "Can't have girls going i
    1 point
  30. Upset, not at all. I just don't understand why people would say they support all youth in scouting then turn around and discuss why they disagree with having those very same youth in the program. "Can you show me the results of the membership (emphasis) survey that had the majority support current membership policies, because I have been looking for years." No, I can't. I assumed National did their due diligence so that's on me for thinking so.
    1 point
  31. ... Ignoring the past ... 10 yeas ago it was clear what was plain wrong and members would have been silenced. ... Misrepresenting the complaint. ... I see no one advocating taking "actionable" steps against youth anywhere in this forum. We support all scouts and do it with a smile and friendship. Individuals people are not a policy issue. ... Changing the advocated request ... So is the action requested blocking discussion on this forum or blocking people taking actions that I've yet to see people say is happening. Earlier in this forum there was discussion of whether moderat
    1 point
  32. So you do agree that those who believe that the current membership policies are wrong do have the right to speak up. Then why are you upset when they do so? Can you show me the results of the membership (emphasis) survey that had the majority support current membership policies, because I have been looking for years. All I can find is the non-member results, which did not include any BSA identifiable markers. Also why would BSA exclude a major segment of their membership from the polls? If I can find the screen capture of the poll, if you were in the Western Region, and chartered to
    1 point
  33. Scouting is fundamentally about being a member of society. Civil discourse. Acting as part of a community. Discussion is core to scouting. That's not correct. This forum debated membership changes for as long as I've been a member. Both sides have been debated. At least a decade if not 15+ years. Ahhh. The value in one person's eyes justifies their crimes. The ends justify the means. So, it's okay for them to violate the Scout Law because they "believe" their beliefs justify breaking the agreement they signed when they agreed to be scout leaders? ... But, the
    1 point
  34. Disposing of those you disagree is wrong. Some call it censorship. I call it a form of sin. People are no more disposable for their beliefs than their sexual orientation. We all need to work together. I've always thought it should be obvious that there is a clear difference between forums like this where we discuss and exist for discussion. In-person working with youth and new leaders is different. That should be completely obvious. ... We as scouters should support all SCOUTS; period. I've seen that happen over and over again even when we disagree or question the situation. .
    1 point
  35. Not quite... For example, a CO and Unit Committee can choose not to allow someone who is openly gay (or a sex-changer) be a leader or youth in their unit. In the case of the adult, if their lifestyle is not in line with the views and morals of the CO, then they have every right to exclude that person from their unit. But, not from Scouting... In the case of the youth, issues of sexuality should never be on the menu... but if they youth and or family push that agenda, then the unit has every right to exclude them as incompatible with their aims for their unit. But, they cannot
    1 point
  36. Absolutely, we tolerate those with those "views". What we do not tolerate is those who "act" against others in accordance with those views. What you are advocating is akin to being the "Thought Police." Not knowing the other specifics of the OP (that is, having only one version of the events), my pronouncement was simply that it was wrong of the person to use an open forum to vent his misgivings about membership policies. And, it was also a failure by the discussion moderators there to not steer that person into other territory. Zoom hosts can mute or boot anyone from a session.
    1 point
  37. I don't know that there's a tactful way to say "your presence here is bad/unwanted". You can deliver it with more or less polish, but "you should be kicked out of this organization" is a fundamentally unfriendly message. Allowing scouts and scouters to tell scouts they shouldn't be in scouting is not a good idea. It creates all kinds of problems in the long run, for both individual scouts and the organization as a whole. Even if the comments aren't targeting a specific youth member, it undermines our value foundation (you only really need to treat some scouts in a friendly and helpful manner)
    1 point
  38. There is a huge difference between not agreeing with a policy and passionately working with youth. I'm a firm believer that the Tiger Cub program is the cause of thousands of families dropping out of the BSA, but I found a way to raise our numbers. I believe education about the struggles from policy changes is healthy because it provides dialogue for ideas to approach and improve or fix the issue. Sad that so many folks feel that censure is the only way to stop discussions they don't like. Barry
    1 point
  39. I guess we've always just done it wrong, but were never told different and didn't realize any different. I guess we let logic take over. When we have one turn 18, they fill out an adult app, take YPT, and get registered as unit college scouter reserve and we let them participate with the scouts, they just can't sleep in a tent with the scout. Generally, it's just for a couple months and through the summer until they head off to college, trade school or whatever they do. IMHO, all of this lawyer type rules is part of the thing that's ruining scouting and ruining leaders who don't want to lead
    1 point
  40. @BetterWithCheddar when my sons were cubs, I only paid for the youth and didn’t need to register to overnight with them. BSA does risk pricing itself out of hey market. It’s not that they compete with sports, but they and sports share a pie with many things that parents want their kids to have.
    1 point
  41. Horseshoe Curve, Altoona, PA "Scouts from Boy Scout Troop 9 of Clearfield recently rode Amtrak’s The Pennsylvanian from Altoona to Johnstown. Scouts also studied the history of the Horseshoe Curve and the South Fork Dam in Johnstown. The rail trip was part of a requirement for the Railroading merit badge." Sources: https://www.railroadcity.org/horseshoecurve https://gantnews.com/2024/04/07/scouts-complete-railroading-merit-badge-requirement/
    1 point
  42. B&O Railroad Museum offers Merit Badge Day! If you're in the neighborhood..... Railroading and Scouts: B&O Museum Welcomes Scouts for Railroading MB, Electronics MB and Inventing MB. Cub Scout Stuff, Too! Saturday 26 September, 10a to 4p For one day only the B&O welcomes all Boy Scouts to meet merit badge requirements toward Railroading, Inventing, and Electronics. Hands-on activities that are age appropriate from Cub Scouts to Boy Scouts will be offered throughout the day. Contact the B&O Museum: http://www.borail.org/Calendar-bo.aspx AND.... STEAM IS NOT GO
    1 point
  43. Admittedly, the online Den Resources Guide looks good, but I did have to chuckle at the "no printed book because that is a cost to bear to deliver the program and we're trying to remove these barriers", and yet, if your pack requires the full uniform for each Cub: Lion $74 (tshirt, cap, belt, neckerchief, slide) Tiger $130+ (field uniform, socks, council patch, pack numbers, world scouting movement patch, cap, neckerchief, slide - extra if you want standalone shorts, new Cub needs belt etc, slightly less for girls as the girls roll-up pants or skort are cheaper than the switchback pants)
    1 point
  44. I've also seen Girl-only Camporees. That really gets to me. Imagine if we had Boy-only Camporees these days. More than one person actually defended it by saying that all of them were Boy-only prior to girls joining. Seriously? I fully support girls being in the program - my daughter loves it. However, I insist that all events be open to boys and girls. To do so otherwise is an insult to the members of BSA who are excluded. Even our Catholic Camporee is open to everyone.
    1 point
  45. @Armymutt, I think you'd agree it's like being in the military: The best thing about being in the military (or Scouts) is some of the people you get to work with. The worst thing about being in the military (or Scouts) is some of the people you get to work with. 😉 😉 😜 😜 😜
    1 point
  46. I don't plan to wear it on an OPKIK trek.. Frankly, I don't know anyone who wears a uniform during camp Alaska other than the commissioners. Most leaders around here only wear uniforms for indoor events period. Anything outdoor is gear of the own preference. I've seen all the studies as well, but in my experience they just don't add up. With "performance" gear I'm hot in the summer and cold in the winter. There is a reason natural fabrics have worked for years. Cotton and wool for me. If I wanted to wear something that will melt, I'd use trash bags - much more economical.
    1 point
  47. My apologies for not understanding This is a challenging time for young people. Politics and cultural extremisms are driving everyone to pick a side with no gray area. Life was simple when I was a scout, it was a little more complicated when I was leader, but nothing like now. My high school teacher son is very frustrated. He had a student commit suicide a few months ago. One of three in the past few years. The problem from his perspective is social media. Kids today get all their identity from social media and that puts them in a very volatile place to find themselves. One day socia
    1 point
  48. 1 point
  49. I agree gave over $5000 dollars in in kind gift to my camp over the last year or so i will never give cash to the council no control on how it is spend?
    1 point
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