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  1. There is no doubt that our history has led to where we all are today. The past created our present. So a lot of people today are behind the eight-ball from the outset. It will take generations to right the ship. But, we've now also had generations of a relatively level playing field. My parents, born in the mid 1940s, were born poor. My dad's family had to get water in a bucket from the neighbor to flush their toilets. My mother was slightly better off but they did not own their own home when she was growing up, had ice delivery long after refrigerators were mainstream, and had no h
    6 points
  2. She has a lot of work to do because confirmation of portions are typically appealed more than rejections. If she has issues with confirmation and must reject portions that becomes the BSA's problem to clean up. If she confirms portions and say the insurers appeal then she needs to have her case law locked down. Given the complexity of this and the historic nature and scope it should take a long time. Something else to consider. Judges ARE aware of news cycles. A long Memorial Day weekend coming up? The Friday before makes for a nice opportunity for s ruling when the press and others are
    5 points
  3. You may recall a recent post by our resident honorary Chief Scout @InquisitiveScouter Yesterday, I found this commentary https://seandietrich.com/scouts-honor/ Read the rest at at source: https://seandietrich.com/scouts-honor/ Mr. Dietrich concludes his commentary: Personally, I will never forget standing in a Methodist church, wearing a khaki uniform, showing three-finger salute, reciting an oath before my flag and my friends: “On my honor, I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country, and to obey the Scout Law; to help other people at all times
    4 points
  4. My own experience is that scout growth is dramatically slower without older scouts modeling the skills the new scouts need to learn. Troop Guides are OK, but they have to teach most of the skills in more of a classroom setting, while new scouts in a mixed age patrol just have to watch the skills being used in normal activities. The scouts in new scouts patrols tend to get bored because they don't stay busy enough when the troop guide isn't around. There is no resource of experience other than the troop guide. Then usually means the adults have to fill in to make sure the new scouts have a cont
    4 points
  5. Best to go to the source.... *(( The true author of this article is unknown. It is here copied from the COME HOSTELING newsletter, Sept. 1980, of the Potomac Area Council of the American Youth Hostels, who received it from Dick Schwanke, Senior PAC Staff Trainer, who read it in the APPALACHIAN HIKER by Ed Garvey, who got it from the Potomac Appalachian Trail Conference Bulletin, which quoted it from THE RAMBLER of the Wasatch Mountain Club of Salt Lake City, which reportedly cribbed it from the I.A.C. News of Idaho Falls, which reported it from the 1966 PEAKS & TRAILS. I offer it h
    3 points
  6. I'm kinda disturbed by the attitude displayed here that bullying is not a reportable incident. Handling stuff like this on the quiet is a big part of what has led to the BSA's current legal trouble.
    3 points
  7. Been there done that. In fact, we tried almost 10 different approaches to getting first year scouts up to speed, and comfortable enough to want to stay. The BSA looses more scouts in their first year of a troop than any other age in the BSA. Our Troop certainly saw that problem. The quick reason for the drop out rate is that sudden culture change from being hand held through life by adults to instant independence of relying on the boy leader not much older than the new scout and themselves for surviving in the woods. It's terrifying for many new scouts. Now, you would think that the new s
    3 points
  8. Great question. Quick and easy answer is : IT. IS. NOT. SCOUTING! (bold and cap for major emphasis and not shouting) Detailed Answer. I do not know when exactly the shift occurred, But when I took Cub Scout Basic Leader Training way back in the day, and when I taught Webelos Den Leader Specific Training, there was an emphasis on transitioning from Cub Scouts to then Boy Scouts. The syllabi discussed how you needed to give them more and more responsibility, start letting them do things for themselves, and getting away from parents signing off on advancement. That is when the "whi
    3 points
  9. I agree, that's certainly not a conversation that should involve all members of the troop. I would think Key 3 and maybe 1-3 more if there are long term committee members with positions who know all the parties involved would be sufficient and appropriate. But, it doesn't sound like the OP actually engaged in any significant dialog with the CC on the issue, so it's hard to know if the CC saying "lets discuss it with everyone" meant literally everyone or if he/she meant it the way my CC would have with just the core Committee members.
    2 points
  10. Well kind-of. Certainly the social issues had an impact on membership, but I suspect it's not the lion's share of the issue. A very significant issue has been scope creep in sports combined with the increasing rate of 2 working parents in families. Many of those sports that were once seasonal have become year round or 3-season endeavors. Tennis, Lacross, Baseball, Field Hockey, Soccer, etc.. So where once a kid might do scouts for 9 months and just stop long enough for a sport season, now their whole year is tied up so they just skip scouts entirely. And the reason BSA started movi
    2 points
  11. That's exactly what the situation is, though most of those parents won't admit it. They want their children to always be completely safe and happy, obediently following the rules and doing only what they are told and not having to bear the responsibility or consequences for anything so they can just "be kids". Somehow they think their kids will magically pick up the ability to cope with life's trials after they are 18. The idea of raising children that question (politely) adults, determine what they think a solution should be on their own and who can function somewhat independently is s
    2 points
  12. I'd draw a distinction between conducting an investigation (implying having authority to investigate, collect evidence, draw conclusions, and perhaps take disciplinary action), and merely collecting evidence and information to pass on to those authorized to formally investigate. If chartering organizations are going to be held responsible for the actions of those registered in their units, the leadership of those units ought to be interested in and take a part in investigating (collecting information at the least) alleged youth protection violations.
    2 points
  13. I find people often use the passive voice to hide... I always then ask the direct question, "Who told you?" If they can't give me name or point of contact, I ignore them. If they give me a name, I call the source (eliminate the middleman) and get the story straight. Nine times out of ten, what person A said and what person B heard are two entirely different things.
    2 points
  14. I think STEM is overrated. There are STEM this-that-or- the-other in their schools. I’m watching the kids glaze over at all the extra homework activities that go with a lot of the merit badge work. It feels like we are just hooking on to a hot topic while neglecting our core appeal. Let’s go hike, get the canoes in the water, figure out the difference between a cotton mouth water moccasin and a plain bellied water snake- set up some tents- we’ll be back Sunday afternoon with some great stories. Yes you need to overhaul your leadership model. What’s the point of having this inbred model if
    2 points
  15. It's good to see we still have humor after what we have endured for so long. Especially after seeing the true colors of the National office.Speaking for myself I guess humor and laughter is what's kept me from going insane.✌️🙏
    2 points
  16. Well, I think you have a valid point. Some of what has been around forever just has to go. The issue is what traditions enhance participation in the program and which have lost their usefulness. I wouldn't categorize every aspect of the program as a "tradition," such as requiring camping merit badge for Eagle. There are (or at least were) good reasons to require camping merit badge for Eagle. It taught valuable skills-even life-saving skills. And adopting modern business practices-that should always be a priority. I was thinking along the lines of the little things, prac
    2 points
  17. I understand that, I personally liked that stuff, but not every kid like the tradition alone especially when the is seen as hokey and uncool. A lot of our target scouts are nerds which is great, but they tend to like stem based topics and we need to fine a way to get this to be part of our outdoor program. But many scoutmaster are dead set on not wanting that to happen.
    2 points
  18. Tradition is one of the main reasons I stick around. Not to say that there isn't innovative ways to do things, but the foundation is strong and remains so. I don't have a scouting background, but it's the elders I sought out and learned from that enables me to pass on that tradition.
    2 points
  19. I would add some nuance to that. My troop may have higher standards than council or BSA. The CC and COR are the people who recruit, select, and are responsible for troop leadership. Something that might not be full stop grounds for ending scouting membership might still be grounds for a change or even an ending of the individual's role in the troop. Additionally, I would really want to understand in depth any incident that was concerning enough for one of our parents to believe it worthy of reporting to council. This is the type of thing that make it really important to remember how
    2 points
  20. I have already attended that funeral twice... Camp Linwood Hayne, Georgia-Carolina Council, and Treasure Island, Cradle of Liberty.
    2 points
  21. The TCC has evaluated all council properties so that each council is expected to sell the property for that estimated price. One way or the other, the councils wish to get as much as reasonably possible to pay as much of the contribution to pay the obligation for the chapter 11. Except for the attorneys, there are no winners in this process.
    2 points
  22. Yep, there is a fine line of setting scouts up to succeed and setting them up to fail. But, there is a difference in learning from failure or becoming disillusioned from failure. Scouts have to feel the adults are their best cheer leaders, especially when they make bad decisions. I told the story about the SPL that was frustrated because he couldn't get the troop of about 30 scouts under control. He walked over to the SM watching from the other side of the room and asked what could he do. The SM asked what was the one thing in his hand that gets a scouts attention. The SPL put his sign
    2 points
  23. I wouldn't think a committee should be investigating a YPT report that was submitted to the council. Other than cooperating with the investigation, a unit committee should not be involved. If I were CC, I would simply ask the SE if there was any immediate action needed and if not, move on. There are times for volunteers to take the lead. There are times for professionals to lead. This is a time where volunteers should take a step back and let the professionals run the investigation/actions. They have the training, experience and any resulting liability to run a proper investigatio
    2 points
  24. I don't see anything in the terms. Someone should be made aware of this gap, though. Are there other documented instances among members here that would put together a pattern beyond isolated examples? Regardless, it shouldn't happen at all if anyone wants YP to really work as a core element of culture and practice.
    2 points
  25. If you are being targeted for reporting a possible YPT violation, that is a serious issue. I think it goes even beyond the initial case. Unless the output of the investigation indicated the parent lied, I cannot imagine this was an appropriate action. Unfortunately, that has been reported in the past here. Note BSA does have an anti retaliation policy for employees, but I have yet to see one for volunteers. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/controller/BSA_Whistle_Blower_Policy.pdf @ThenNow @MYCVAStory ... do you know if the youth protection changes from bankrup
    2 points
  26. Agree. Scouting is not baby sitting or adult led. Scouting is a safe environment to try and fail. ... Beyond that, "following the program" can be implemented many ways to create a unique personality for the troop.
    2 points
  27. This is always the question, doe we raise money in order to have Scouting, or do we have Scouting in order to be able to raise money. I am in a large council and largest part of the professional staff is fundraising, development, etc. Yes During the challenge with the Chartered Organizations (UMC) the BSA did nothing. Our council did nothing. Basically they don't care about the units. They would much prefer to not even have actual units out doing things. Much easier and less messy just to have some photos of Scouts doing things. All that is needed is a some cub packs (they'r
    2 points
  28. I'm allowed to censor. Terry is allowed to censor. Twitter is allowed to censor. Facebook is allowed to censor. The USG is not allowed to censor. It's a really simple concept.
    2 points
  29. Depends on how many Bitcoins the foundation was invested in. I think the BSA will stay in Ch 11 as long as the current plan is on the table. They have the liquidity and the foundation will back them up for a few months if needed. The real danger to BSA if this plan is outright rejected (either by the bankruptcy court or fairly quickly by district). In one of the hearings, BSA lawyers indicated the foundation will only loan BSA $ if they are out of bankruptcy. If the foundation sees the CH11 plan rejected, I wouldn't be surprised if they decide they need to save their $ for futur
    2 points
  30. Just landed on the docket, whatever this means. Minute Entry: The Court will not be ruling on confirmation at the omnibus hearing on May 25. The only matters going forward at the omnibus hearing are those listed on the agenda. - RE: [9714] Order on Omnibus Hearings scheduled for 5/25/2022 at 02:00 PM US Bankruptcy Court, 824 Market St., 6th Fl., Courtroom #2, Wilmington, Delaware (LJJ) (LJJ) https://cases.omniagentsolutions.com/documents?clientid=3552&tagid=1153&dateFrom=05/15/2022&dateTo=05/21/2022
    2 points
  31. For reasons beyond my control, I have an ASM who is a helicopter grandparent. Good news is that at meetings I have a CC who will ride herd on them when I supervise the Scouts. And they are limiting the number of camp outs they go on since the adults sleep in tents, or hammocks, just like the youth, and he likes his comforts. But at home it is a different situation. The Scout may be packing his own gear, but grandparent is telling him what to bring and not bring. It is obvious extremely obvious when the Scout was doing a shakedown and kept asking the grandparent what a piece of gear is that he
    2 points
  32. I think the biggest problem is that is creates a paradigm which then must be dismantled. I disagree that it allows them to "get used to scouting" because that paradigm is fundamentally NOT scouting; what they are getting used to is adults being the leader. The idea of an adult continually whispering in their ear of a scout who is not prepared to be the leader denies the scouts the opportunity to experience scouting via an older Patrol leader. This experience will have positives and negatives which will help shape the younger scouts understanding. It will also affect how they ultimately lead wh
    2 points
  33. Respectfully disagree. The best leaders for Venturing are the 18-20 year olds who are craving HA, but also are giving back to the troop as well. Sadly because BSA no longer gives the 18-20 year olds the respect they deserve, i.e. they no longer count towards 2 deep leadership, needs 2 registered adults over 21 when teaching a MB or 1 over 21 registered adult and 1 parent with them when teaching a MB, making them choose between Scout friends and schoolmates since they have to apply YPT policies to non-Scout life, but again they do not count towards 2 deep leadership, We are losing a lot of ex
    2 points
  34. Most definitely. I would add that the TG gets overwhelmed working with all of the new Scouts simultaneously. In a Traditional Patrol, older Scouts buddy up with the younger ones and work with them. Again concur. When I was a TG, if I was not actively working with someone, they were clueless as to what to do, even if I gave them specific instructions. And I was overwhelmed. In my case, adults did not get involved because we were an old fashioned Scout-led troop, unless it was disciplinary. After a year of trying, and also losing some scouts, we went back to Traditional Patrols. HOW
    2 points
  35. I would NEVER willingly put "troop" monies into an account our local council had access to. I have no problem at all imagining a SE deciding "un-designated bank funds at the end of the fiscal year get shifted to the Council general fund". If I was forced into a situation where a Council chartered troop was my only option, I'd probably establish a new charity with the sole function of acting as our "banker". We would "volunteer" for a fundraiser and the "Troopfund X" organization would simply hold our funds until needed and then they would cut a check for whatever needed paying. Kind of
    2 points
  36. Since I seem to be one of the ones speaking up for women this week, I would say don't make the usual BSA mistake of only looking backwards. The future of scouting, if it survives, is going to include a lot more girls and women. And since females are sexually abused at a rate 5x that of males, at least according to universally available historical data so far, this is going to have to be a youth protection area of interest for BSA going forward. If the YPC is going to do any good, it has to be looking forward as well as taking instructive lessons from the past.
    2 points
  37. Insert my general rant that the cub program should be split into two groups, roughly k-2 with a lower general time commitment, and 3-5 with a higher level of engagement, but because the kids are older its less stressful for the leaders. Reducing burnout in the cub program would help a lot. I do think the rise of more organized sports (and higher levels of commitment for all extra curricular) has certainly affected scouting. There's a question of how we can either be priority #1 for a few kids or a consistent #2 option for a bunch of others. I also think that there has been a general
    1 point
  38. 100% agree with this. It is one thing asking a parent to volunteer to be a soccer coach. That takes a few hours a week for a couple of months of the year. Scouting takes more and is year round and a decade. Even the most dedicated have a hard time managing that. I also think while we saw some recovery post Covid ... the impact of Covid may last a long time. I don't mean vax, social distancing or masks. I mean that families saw a life where little Johnny didn't have 25 hours per week of scheduled activities. Sports seems to have bounced back, but things like music lessons, language
    1 point
  39. Is a program better of to stick with the BSA program (as trained), or change the program to keep youth interested? I realize this is a bit of an open-ended question. A general example is that National provides training and guidance that tells us the troop should follow certain procedures. When some of the youth in the troop don't want to do those things, they will complain often to parents who then give the SM an earful. In some cases, youth quit because the troop and patrol expects them to meet certain obligations and be responsible. Recently had a parent pull the kid out of the troop b
    1 point
  40. I missed your comment. And you are right, the program materials to put on the program are of minuscule cost. Our council camp provides a huge percentage of the council's revenue. And yet minor costs are not addressed, and program suffers, and scouts (customers) are disappointed.
    1 point
  41. Scouterlockport (Illinois?) what is the basis of your downvote? I can't learn from a mere downvote.
    1 point
  42. Possibly. Might I suggest that if this occurs it might be a result of not having the conversations with the scout ahead of time. Has he scout been explicitly told he may (and should) seek guidance when needed? Did the scouter go over the plans with the scout leader ahead of time? Not to approve or fix them, just to ensure the scout had a plan. The scouter should ask leading questions to help the growing scout leader determine what should be considered. Afterwards, a sit down to discuss what worked, didn't etc... But not "whispering in their ear" during the activity. In general, "off the r
    1 point
  43. If an SE does anything, I'd be surprised.
    1 point
  44. There really isn’t any prep other than clearing your calendar. yes there are some post course goals to work. You get 18 months to finish those Find something in scouts you want to learn more about are want to get involved with. Bring those ideas to the class. But don’t start working on them until after the course.
    1 point
  45. That's a great idea; and in many ways I agree with it in principle. The problem is that the US government spent 80 odd years (after slavery was abolished) keeping their thumb on the scale (via redlining) when it comes to minority populations. So we aren't talking about some new kid "coming lately to the game getting to take a swing". What we have here is something more like a kid who's been on the baseball team since 1st grade, but wasn't allowed to do anything in practice but chase stray balls. Now it's High School and he/she is told, "Congratulations, we've decided to give you a shot at
    1 point
  46. Our Scuba post was manage by the scuba teacher and equipment store owner. The Police Post, was manage by volunteer police, and so on. We have a rappelling Venture crew around here that is led by the rappelling teachers at the Air Force Base. Find the adults who live and have passion for the skills that the scouts want for their adventure. Send them to training and have the DE visit them once in a while. I'm sure the effort is a lot more challenging, but it just one idea to bat around for ideas. Barry
    1 point
  47. I may be wrong, but I think that the majority of the 83% have been more concerned with the financial aspect of the reorganization and BSA did not enter bankruptcy to get input into Youth Protection. Any youth protection improvements are just a byproduct (though needed) to the BSA program. I am quite sure that the total expenditure out of the over $100 million only a couple percentage went towards crafting new policies.
    1 point
  48. The reason why you can't find any is because there is none. The Lion and Tiger program are, however, very focused on the relationship between parent/guardian and child. The scout would not be getting the full benefit of the program without them. Wolf through AoL programs center around the den leaders, so parent's (aside from a 2nd registered 21+year old of requisite gender) aren't really needed for den meetings. Pack-meetings, let's be honest, are really about showing off to the parents and other dens. So, you definitely want them around then. If the scouts are traveling any dis
    1 point
  49. In the other thread, jblake47 wrote: "I'll take a wall tent over a dome tent any day for coolness. Ever wonder why there are grommets in the 4 corners?" OK, this brings up a question I've had for a while, along with a horrible confession on my part. What kind of tents do scouts use these days, and why have they moved to what appears to me to be a poorer alternative? I've been away from scouts for 30+ years. I still don't have a lot of experience with the way things are done these days. But from my limited experience of Cub Scout camping, and looking around at neighboring
    1 point
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