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  1. One mentor of mine never had children of his own. He came back from WWII, and the troop he grew up in needed a SM, and he filled the role. He served as SM of the troop until Uncle Sam called him to Korea. Came back from Korea, and resumed SM job because everyone wanted 'Sarge" back. Stayed on for over 20 years. Even then he worked summer camp until health started failing him. Man who made the biggest impact on me, more than may father, was my SM. He was the role model for me growing up, and my role model now as SM. He also never had children of his own. HIs nephew's troop needed an SM,
    8 points
  2. Welp I guess this is the comment to finally bring me out from the lurker caves. Besides just being straight-up sexist (this is 2023, we should be beyond this), barring men without kids wouldn't just (unjustly) exclude plenty of terrific volunteers, including myself, it would simply kill scouting. I recently took a job as a DE in my council, and after going around meeting all the units and leaders, let me tell you 95% of units are surviving off the veteran volunteers that have been around for a while. They all say the same thing. They'd love to have some parent volunteers, but the fac
    5 points
  3. So, in your mind, an adult male, registered leader, 4 Eagle Scout sons, all of whom aged out, wants to go on a campout. What is your rule?
    5 points
  4. "Insta-palms" are not an issue to me one way or another. IMHO, reward the scout for doing the extra MBs. But, it's not a big issue to me and definitely does not affect the scouts much. Big issues are kids / families getting burnt out in cub scouts. The program is way too long with too little value. Should have remained as a program that starts in 3rd grade or 2nd grade. 1st grade is way too early. Kindergarten is ridiculously early.
    4 points
  5. I regret that I have one Upvote to give for this post.
    3 points
  6. @curious_scouter, my only advice: don’t suffer fools. Training should be commensurate with the needs. For example, I don’t care how good my counselors are at shooting sports, their of no use to my scouts on land navigation challenges unless I know that they keep sharp in that skill. Regarding mentoring youth … like you said, I need adults who can take a step back. For example, I am a very good cook, as are a couple of other dads. But if the boys are doing their own meals, we make our own adult cooking area. If we aren’t cooking and will be guests of a patrol, we sit apart waiting for them
    3 points
  7. @Alec27 .... The related question is SHOULD they be camping with you AND what is their ROLE when camping? IMHO, rules are to cover guide to safe scouting. The "should" and "role" is always my main concern. Committee members are administrative; not scout-facing. Too often committee members work like ASMs. That's not "preferred". Sometimes it's necessary due to number of registered adults. So on camp outs ... just like troop meetings, etc ... scouts work with scouts first; then with SM and the ASMs. Ideally, scouts don't work with committee members.
    3 points
  8. Welcome to the forum, @Alec27. A committee member can go camping, unless your troop specifically forbids it. You do need to cover the YPT Rules. My impression is "2 registered adults" includes committee, assuming they're registered, especially if they're a former SM. Maybe some of these parents complaining should register and solve this problem. I know, but it is my first thought on this.
    3 points
  9. I am a 47 year old Gen Xer and I think that's ridiculous. Kids were born in 2008 and 2010. My wife had a better job with benefits. I became a stay at home dad. I am the one that gets up early, gets the kids ready, fix lunches, take them to school, go to the school meetings during the day. Do laundry, take care of the dishes, mow, fix plumbing, etc. Neither of us makes all the decisions about anything. I am the CC for two Troops, been a DL, a CM, several committee positions. In my 6 years of doing this across two programs and three Units, I have not run into the marriage dynamic y
    2 points
  10. My husband and I lead the Cub Scout pack that both of my boys were in prior to last year, when our oldest took the leap into Scouts BSA. The unit he chose is small and the SM and ASM are both older guys with no kids in the program. The older scouts were not overly welcoming and one of the boys that crossed with mine dropped after a couple of months because he felt bullied. We had a transparent conversation with one of the families from our pack that also picked that troop to cross into. We both revealed that we felt incredibly uncomfortable sending our boys into the woods with these men an
    2 points
  11. Our troop had a hard time with planning September campouts due to school just starting. We started having that as a family campout that we invited the troop families and webelos families to. This gives the moms of the Webelos to spend a weekend with the adults in the troop. Nothing builds bonds like some campfire time. Having a family campout each year also helps those families who want all campouts to be family campouts. We can easily say "well, no, younger siblings can't attend a normal troop campout, but they are always welcome at the annual family campout in September."
    2 points
  12. We probably have about 10 minutes of "instruction time" too. Some weeks as much as 15-20, maybe, but not all at once. Fun and games are how kids engage at this age and besides gamifying the lessons outlined for the adventure, games are one of the best ways for learning the skills of listening, understanding, and following rules, and provide opportunities to work on emotional regulation when the game doesn't go the way they want. And kindness when it DOES go how they want and someone else is the one upset. And, of course, training in cleaning up after themselves. Don't fight the fun and gam
    2 points
  13. I'm sharp enough to realize these types of situations exist, but the concept of the AOL award being perceived as a serious academic credential still baffles me.
    2 points
  14. It seems odd they only allow this for a religious purpose. It seems like that could be targeted by lawsuits ... like the state is establishing a religion by pushing non-religious institutions with taxes they don't apply to religious ones. Plus, it isn't just religious institutions ... it is that + museums. In my state, yes, churches don't pay but most other non profit organizations don't have to pay property tax. They don't just separate out museums + churches. The fix is even more odd. Why not other youth organizations? Why not other non-profit organizations? I'm glad I don't
    2 points
  15. I wonder if there will be a challenge since BSA requires a belief in a god.
    2 points
  16. One of the ASM should immediately become acting SM. Then the COR searches for a replacement.
    2 points
  17. Biggest complaint has been the council level pros for some time. . We are large geographically, but an economically poor region. BUT the folks with money usually were involved in Scouting as youth, knew the need, and gave of both their time for their children, and treasure to help others. Usually those folks would serve in district and/or council roles. Who knows the community better than the ones living in it? Well you got pros coming in, wanting things done their way. No amount of explaining that the things they want done were tried before and were failures will get through their heads.
    2 points
  18. The requirement per the Guide to Safe Scouting is that two registered adult leaders 21 and older are required for all scouting activities including meetings. A committee member is a registered adult leader who is 21 and older. The point of being registered is that they have had the background check and they have done their YPT certification. Regardless, as a former SM/ASM, one would hope they have already taken the SM/ASM training and OLS at some point for their previous position anyway, neither of which expire, making the fact that they are registered as a committee member kind of irrele
    2 points
  19. The prudent church Treasurer would insist on an annual audit of Unit accounts and the Unit committee should welcome it. Keep everything transparent and above board. In addition to "annual", an audit should also occur whenever the Unit Treasurer duties change hands.
    2 points
  20. That is a quality unit. Quality units deliver a quality program. A unit that does not deliver a quality program is not a quality unit.
    2 points
  21. Cub Scouts.... A lot of parents attend a Join Scout Night and listen to the spiel and sign up their kid. Many of these parents never had an experience in Scouting, but it sounds like "something to do". Of course you get a lot that show up to that first meeting and tap out right then and there. The ones that stay fall into two groups of kids that actually want to be there and the other set of kids that don't care from the get go and are there because they are being told they have to. Those kids that are being told they have to will leave soon because the parents get tired of fighting i
    2 points
  22. I just got the news I will serve as one of the ASMs from a troop from our council — its exciting since I never had the chance to do a Jamboree when I was a scout. Any advice from the group for a newbie? Personal equipment to take (or not bother taking) that I might not think of? After action insights on what the adult leader experience is like?
    2 points
  23. If I had a choice between a mini medal and a plaque, I’d take the mini medal. But, how about an electronic medal in the form of a screen that scrolls all of your awards. Make it solar powered so that the wearer had to spend time outdoors to keep it blinging,
    2 points
  24. This solution is an example of why leaders without is not a national issue. Most of the time, the unit will find a solution. Also, intimidation from older is a more common problem. I knew of several troops with the intimidating older scouts. Leaders learn quickly that they better fix it or loose recruits. Barry
    1 point
  25. So true. I've been struck at the number of times parties have suggested that Survivors are growing impatient when that isn't the case. Frustrated? Absolutely. But if you take a Survivor who has waited decades for some sort of resolution, and assume that all of a sudden their patience is going to evaporate, you're going to make a big mistake. Survivors want this over but realize that for many this might be their best shot. Don't ignore their abuse OR the resolve that's been forged over the decades.
    1 point
  26. While the TCC didn't object, it didn't support reimbursement either, and made clear that the Coalition and Pfau/Zalkin's reimbursement requests were not their fight pro or con. From the docket: https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/4e0ca3c3-b1e5-4bc3-b4f4-0407a4d599ca_10861.pdf "However, in an attempt to emphasize their individual roles in this case to support the payment of their substantial contribution claims, the Coalition and, to a lesser extent, Pfau/Zalkin, have minimized (and at times have been outright dismissive of) the integral role that the TCC played in
    1 point
  27. Update 1/11/23 from Virginia legislature: Delegate of the 47th District of the Commonwealth of Virginia, Patrick Hope (D-Arlington) has introduced House Joint Resolution 531: Constitutional amendment (first reference); personal property tax; exemption. Provides that property owned by a chartered organization and used solely for the purpose of supporting one or more scouting units holding a charter issued by the Boy Scouts of America or Girl Scouts of the United States of America shall be exempt from state and local taxation. Those organizations would join other nonprofits that a
    1 point
  28. The leaders contact their DE. Sometimes exceptions can be made.
    1 point
  29. I would believe that reference to 'adult program participants" means those 18, 19, & 20 year olds who are also a part of a crew, ship, or post; or who are registered as an ASM in a troop and still qualify as a youth at OA activities.
    1 point
  30. Late to the party but plaques and gifts for AOLs in my unit was always covered by the parents. Some parent groups wanted to drop hundreds on mega trophies, my group bought arrows and learned how to crest arrows so we could keep cost down and give something hand-made. For "decorations" our crossovers are always outdoors and if there's any "decorating" it's done by the Troop and usually is some form of lashed together furniture/bridges from our already-owned ropes and poles inventory. Not much to spend on for decorating and doing it outside with a campfire makes it night IMO. Our Pack us
    1 point
  31. Hmmm… Interesting to see where this thread has gone the past 15 years… see you in another 15 years!
    1 point
  32. Committee Members ought to go camping (or visit an overnight camping trip) to observe the performance of the SM Corps. It is not the ideal that MCs would be there as the required adult supervision. Totally concur with @fred8033... except one point... Scouts should ideally work with Committee Members for their Positions of Responsibility, where appropriate. e.g., Scribe, Webmaster, Librarian, Chaplains Aide, Historian, etc. etc., as these are administrative in nature. For other PORs, it is ONLY appropriate to be under the mentorship of someone in the SM Corps... e.g.,
    1 point
  33. So as some may tell, I have been a "Negative Nellie" of late. Between the constant changes at national, and the lack of involvement in my council I have had it. And waht is really sad is that I was probably the biggest cheerleader for the council as little as 7 year ago, having drunk the Flavor aid. But National has not listed to it's volunteers. The Instapalms are one I harp on a lot. But look at the Lion Program. Many thought the 4.5 year Tiger through AOL progression was too long. They went ahead and added a Lions anyway. The pilot den in my area started with 10 Lions. They now have 4
    1 point
  34. I might also add: check with the scout. Every now and then you come across one who doesn’t want to be on the ballot. I personally think SM approval includes identifying candidates and letting them know that they may be up for election.
    1 point
  35. I'm the current Board of Trustees Chair for a UMC congregation that chartered a Troop for 101 years. We also chartered a Cub Scout Pack and a Girl's Troop. In the past, I served as Scoutmaster for the Troop (among many other Unit, District, and Council positions) and my wife (a former Scout Office employee) acted as the COR for the church. The Troops and Pack elected to execute an Affiliation Agreement with the church, with the Council acting as Chartering Organization. The cutover process proved difficult due to the on-line Recharter web application's inability to process the new Affiliat
    1 point
  36. I'll channel Jefferson: Time indeed changes manners and notions, and so far we must expect institutions to bend to them. But time produces also corruption of principles, and against this it is the duty of good citizens [Scouters] to be ever on the watch, and if the gangrene is to prevail at last, let the day be kept off as long as possible.
    1 point
  37. Maybe this is another reason for the OA to die? Why bother having rules if they are ignored.
    1 point
  38. That should be true globally. Once the SM has approved someone to be on the ballot and they are elected he/she CANNOT change the result. From the latest version of the OA Guide to Elections: "After the youths have voted, the unit leader cannot adjust the results of the election. The Guide for Officers and Advisers says that lodge rules must include this standard rule: Rule III.A. The requirements for membership in this lodge are as stated in the current printing of the Order of the Arrow Handbook and the Order of the Arrow Guide for Officers and Advisers. The “Induction: Election to
    1 point
  39. I think predicting the future is a great thing to do at the end of the year when everyone wants a break from doing the hard stuff. But this discussion has taken a nice turn. I appreciate the range of possibilities. When you're running towards protection and away from the saber toothed tiger, it keeps things in focus better than what I've always seen from BSA singing "the future's so bright I gotta wear shades" - because that song was about nuclear war. I agree with @Cburkhardt that we need to believe in the program but I also think that there are changes that we're ignoring. There are asp
    1 point
  40. Extrapolating membership results nationwide from one enthusiastic scoutmaster’s troop is even less predictive of the nation’s circumstances. I was once that enthusiastic crew advisor, but I realized that irrational exuberance does nothing to prepare one for the future. Ignoring the experience of other scout associations around the world is the height of arrogance. That’s okay. We’re American and need to maintain that exceptionalist swagger. But one needs to own the at-home facts in evidence. This forum holds posts from scouters who’ve lost interest in BSA once it proposed BSA4G. I’v
    1 point
  41. I am sorry I did not see this earlier. Thanks Qwazse for the thinker. In my duty as a Jamboree Chaplain, I would sit in the "Relationships" pavilion (title is changed with the particular Jamboree) and would be available for Scouts to come and at least get THIS checked off for their Jamboree scavenger hunt requirement. I regularly had discussions with Scouts who would open with "oh, I don't get this God stuff." Magi? Wise Guys? Princes? The ultimate question that is never answered in scripture is what did they do AFTER they left their gifts and worship? Our Scout Dist
    1 point
  42. I talked to the dad today. We discussed both sides of the issue and I think he's in agreement that it's better to start with the troop on March 1st rather than holding his son back. It would be different if we had a Webelos Den behind him, but we don't. Better that he start progressing toward Eagle with kids his own age than hang out with 9 year olds.
    1 point
  43. That leads me to believe that the admissions committees don't have a clue about the AOL. Let's be real, it's nowhere near the level of an accomplishment of a First Class Scout, let alone Eagle.
    1 point
  44. Agree. It's nice to have the patch on the scout shirt, but it just doesn't matter.
    1 point
  45. LOL, yes it is 😜 Technically, only "entities" can "own" property, including money. Unless you incorporate your unit, it cannot "own" anything. If our COR ever wants a financial statement, we would subtract out of the bank account balance any monies paid by Scouts or parents into Scout accounts. Any monies fundraised belong to the COR. All property and gear belong to the COR. Now, they cannot just "take" your funds and put it in their general account. If your unit has a bank account, only the signatories on that account can dispose of the funds. If our COR demanded our cash, we
    1 point
  46. And the SE can do whatever they want. Overrule the elected lodge officers, overrule the lodge membership voting results, move designated funds from whatever the lodge and/or chapter designated them for to the general operating fund, remove advisers who question them, etc. I would say MUCH worse.
    1 point
  47. Displeased with Former COs who are "Iffy" about our Units Carter: I formed two new units over the last four years -- a new Scouts BSA Troop for Girls and a new Sea Scout Ship. We interviewed many potential chartered organizations and chose two outstanding entities that we knew to be examples of strong organizations that believed strongly in our Scouting missions. Our chartered organizations are deeply involved in what we do and provide oversight and other assistance. We are the principal youth program for both COs and they receive significant benefit through their association wit
    1 point
  48. Maybe it's just me, but as an adult, I'm not too keen on wearing medals. Save that type of acknowledgement for people who save lives. I'm still appreciative of recognition but would prefer a square knot and/or small desktop award. I do, however, share the OP's desire for consistency.
    1 point
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