Jump to content


  • Content Count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


qwazse last won the day on May 20

qwazse had the most liked content!

Community Reputation

2692 Excellent


About qwazse

  • Rank
    Just one more beggar ...

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Not Telling
  • Location

Recent Profile Visitors

The recent visitors block is disabled and is not being shown to other users.

  1. qwazse

    troop meeting structure/rules

    Rules of order are next-level. Your PLC should be proud for even trying to use them. I wouldn't ask for a recount based on technically. If some PL's felt left out, they could move for a vote of no confidence in the SPL. But, it is probably better to just wait until the next election cycle and see if candidates bring up these changes as justification for election/reelection.
  2. Certainly when I was a scout, the SMs and ASMs were nowhere to be found on my BoRs. My dad was on the committee, and they would be held after the troop meetings. The SM would go upstairs to give his report, and any boys waited downstairs, he would come back down and then the boys "went up" for their BoRs, one at a time.
  3. I would not put into by-laws anything about advancement except that you all will comply with BSA's Guide to Advancement and maximize the opportunities for youth leaders to sign off on requirements under the direction of the Scoutmaster. You could add that any counselor failing to teach the entire content of an MB's requirements and review each scouts completion of those requirements on an individual basis will be black-listed from the troop and never again recommended to counsel any other scouts in the troop, district, or counsel. Don't worry about the 'semblance of evil when what matters is evil personified.
  4. Son #2 asked me to be his Eagle Project advisor. Aside from that, I didn't sign-off with Sons and Daughter because -- although I knew that I was best at many of the requirements -- I fondly go through my old book from time to time, and cherish those PL signatures. I wanted them to have that same sense of a panoply of leaders that I had as a scout. So, my thinking: If someone else is the better expert, send your son to him. If he is almost as good, but you think you think that person deserves a significant role in your son's life, send your son to him. If your son knows your the best at that requirement, and asks you to help him with it, dive in. As other's said, you wont regret it.
  5. qwazse

    Adult led and youth led

    A friend's daughter created her LP as a "do something club" that was entirely service oriented. It lasted until her peers started worrying about college, and she got a job as a barista to save up for books, etc ... On one slow day at the shop after she had served my iced-coffee, we caught up on her plans for the future, and her reflections on high school. She said, "I really wish we had done more exciting stuff, like backpacking." Before my drink started to boil in my hand, she said that she knew that I was always "there" for her. I guess what LPs can gain from a troop is inspiration to commit to a panoply of adventure.
  6. qwazse

    Adult led and youth led

    Hi @Kudu, thanks for coming back to stir the pot! I've meet a few such lone patrols (LP). Thanks to a relative's cabin or farm and a generally free-and-open city and state park system, Western PA is rife with youth going hiking and camping independently with their mates. The recently instituted requirements for, and legalistic definitions of, adult supervision, make BSA a very hard sell for an LP. But, absent those here's my observation: The Pro's of of a (LP) joining a troop: Metrics: the LP may now have an objective rating of their performance through competition and sharing of reports. Ethics: the LP may now acquire a common set of ideals with which to challenge themselves and other patrols. Association: the LP may now access their community's most dedicated adults and get constructive feedback on any plans and designs. Materials: the LP now has access to more/better materials through bulk purchases and shared maintenance. Fellowship: members of LP can feel isolated. It may turn out that their LP stinks -- or he/she stinks in the opinion of that patrol. In a troop, the observant LP member can request transfer to another patrol. The Con's: Abdication of Real leadership. In an LP, if you don't serve your mates well, they'll invest their time elsewhere -- there's an immediate cost to failing to lead. Joining a troop provides the temptation to pass on real leadership. The former LP may bank on the troop to take up slack, and repeatedly drawing on those reserves will leave the LP with nothing of distinction. Clumsiness. Free-range patrols drive their parents nuts because they make plans quickly as soon as they see openings in schedules. Troops demand that patrols stop and think about their next move. The other patrols might have expectations. At the very least the LP will have to seriously consider meeting those expectations. More often, that is not a question of "if", but "how." Infrastructure burden. All LP members can quickly agree to use one media platform. E.g., they may meet at a particular park bench every morning. To offset clumsiness, a troop needs to maintain a more permanent presence, and the LP must now contribute to that maintenance by providing QMs, TGs, JASMs, Scribes, Librarians, Buglers, etc ...
  7. qwazse

    A tale of two scouts

    Scout #1. Tell her to not think of it as "telling" so much as asking firmly. In fact here's an approach that I found worked for some scouts: For scout stuff, get into the habit of addressing each member of your patrol formally, with titles. E.g. Mister/Miss Surname. Each "command" begins with "Please" and ends with "Thank You". E.g., "Please get the fire started while Miss is getting our supplies. Thank you." In other words, she needs a culturally appropriate language that frees her from worrying about things like pushing her friends around. Make clear that you expect to see her demonstrate progress immediately, and emphasis your confidence that he can succeed if he tries. Scout #2. You must arrange a brief conference with him. Tell him that you observed particularly unhealthy behavior. A scout is helpful. Ask him if he wants to be a scout? Ask if he treats his parents this way. (I bet on some levels, he does.) Chances are he'll Tell him that if he wants to continue to be a scout, he'll to be helpful to his patrol ... both the one assigned by the troop, and the one assigned by the Almighty (i.e., his family). Make clear that you expect to see him demonstrate progress immediately, and emphasis your confidence that he can succeed if he tries. We'll worry about what happens to those scouts if they don't improve in short order.
  8. qwazse

    How to increase usage of Patrol Method

    On my small-troop experience, whoever did the work held the position, patches were superfluous. But how this wound up was a couple of older scouts would stay after and we asked them how things are going and what we should do next. IMHO, focus your attention on the PL+APL if they are showing up, and if other scouts are joining them and it's making everyone productive, keep it going. In the process you will identify who might be the better QM vs Scribe vs Librarian, etc ... There is no point in formally convening a PLC until the troop has three patrols who need to coordinate. Then, PL/APL from each patrol and the SPL/ASPL are your PLC -- effectively or "leadership patrol." Again, I don't go checking patches to see who is sitting there. If a scout's doing work, he has a say. In this context, how the weekly after-meeting goes is that some weeks it's obvious that what the plan for the next week will be so SPL says, "See you next week." Other weeks we have to hash out a number of details or follow-up on a bunch of activities, so the meeting is about a half hour. In that case, the SPL will let the leaders know that he'll need more of their time that week.
  9. We were talking about a particular scout wearing a life patch. And speculating weather time scouting in Canada prior to enrolling in Scouts BSA would be a pretext for doing so. The answer: not until May 2020. Perhaps a smidge earlier if one thinks councils should honor fitness logs done overseas. However all of those logs would have been contingent on being Scouts BSA eligible, which no female scout was. On this the G2A and currently announced polices are unambiguous. The grey area would only exist for female scouts overseas beginning this February. And if a female scout dropped in my crew last week, and based on discussions with her SM, she was first class in concept -- if not the patch, I would lean on my district advancement chair very heavily to accord her that rank so she could start advancement to Star forthwith. But, the last line of GTA is unambiguous that she would have to start her participation count, not on Feb 1, but as of last week. Therefore, I would have to find her a troop and risk loosing her to that set of girls because, if she is indeed a first class scout, the opportunity to mentor these newbies might just be too good to let pass. Bottom line: not officially active stateside = not advancing.
  10. Someone replying to Bryan's blog did me the favor of quoting that section in full, and the last paragraph says: Which means the bottom line of GTA, provides a is multi-pronged denial of any form of high speed low drag. It explicitly says for any scout coming from overseas (be she a citizen of the US or Canada or elsewhere), the following requirements must be be completed in a BSA unit: Active participation: That includes the T2FC activity and outdoor ethics requirements which stipulate since joining Scouts BSA, which for young women was not possible until Feb 1. Position of responsibility: for Eagle, that's at least 16 months in office after earning 1st class. Unit Leader Conference: all six must be done after completing the previous rank while working on the next. Scout Spirit: Why scout spirit on foreign soil doesn't count is a mystery to me. My best guess is that such enthusiasm should be recognized by an award from that country. And to give two awards for the same activity seems like double-dipping to some. Service project: Again the closest I can think is that service projects under the auspices of other WOSM organizations should be recognized by that organization and not BSA. In other words, even if you've acquired the skills overseas, a scout must do the time in a BSA unit to receive a BSA award.
  11. qwazse

    How to increase usage of Patrol Method

    There's three hard facts that adults need to accept in transitions like this. "My patch, my rules." Is the level of respect that everyone should accord the one person who steps up to take point. This actually applies to coaches as well. "By the book." Is often what SM's throw back. I focus on the BS Handbook. I also pick campsites that are a couple of miles in from the parking area. That tends to thin the herd of helicopters. "I'll believe it when I see it." is the attitude most adults who are willing to help your program actually have. When they see one or two little successes they begin to buy in. Sometimes to the point where they actually think it was their idea. So pick your battles. If I were you, on the adult side I would invest in talking things through with your CC and COR at a campfire someplace, and stay as quiet as possible in committee meetings. Let the CC and COR do the talking for you. On the youth side, choose your favorite of any of the above suggestions and work it with your youth leadership. The list that I laid out? That's what I gave to our new SM, verbally. We're going forward with the first an last items. Just that little bit, and the difference is night and day. Even though there's a long way to go, there's the sense that we're getting there.
  12. qwazse

    How to increase usage of Patrol Method

    @Eagle1993, firstly congratulations! And thanks for stepping up for our youth. Start simple: Respect your SPL Make sure he has a leaders manual Let him know your expectations, they should include that he Has fun with his buddies Is a friend to younger scouts Shares plans and personal schedules with the ASPL Communicates, communicates communicates Respect his time: As you learn more about this scout, you can add or adjust expectations. Get in the habit of doing this every election cycle. At your troop's opening, expect scouts to line up by patrols. SPL takes roll call, by patrol. Each PL reports "All present", or "All or accounted for," or "# present or acounted for, # absent" Then, the SPL asks each PL to account for each absent but accounted for member. The PL with the least unaccounted absences gets the pick of next week's duties. Some duties that each patrol may request to be assigned for each meeting: Pre-opening activity/game Color-guard Clean-Up Song/Skit Program There may be others. For example with that large of a troop, should scouts be directing parking? Assemble PLC regularly We actually opted for 10-15 minutes after the troop meeting closes. Train the SPL to ask "What went well? Not so well? What should we do differently?" Ask if they need any help from the adults? Stay positive. If a patrol stands out for doing something we, thank that PL. Don't worry about higher level stuff like patrol corners, uniforms, positions of responsibility, camp set-up, patrol outings, etc ... until you hear from adults and see the youth perform. I'm suggesting that you start at meetings because that's where everyone is watching every week. How meetings run sets the tone for how every camp and activity will run, even if you haven't told anyone how you expect every camp and activity to run.
  13. This is national's fix : no female Eagle until October 31st of next year: Miss Ireland could still be the 1st female Eagle, all that is needed is for all other females in Scouts BSA to withhold submitting their application until November 1, 2020.
  14. qwazse

    back again

    @Oldscout448 Godspeed. And, if you fall in with anyone fielding a program for youth in a way that you can get behind, let us know.
  15. qwazse

    As an adult, what about my ideas?

    @DoxManDude, welcome to the forums. No matter our position, the trick is to get it to be the youth's idea and go from there. You need to focus on priorities. Based on your description, here's where I'd rank things high vs. low: High You know native plants? Become a counselor for wilderness survival, plant science, environmental science, or nature. Think of "packages" of activities you can offer the boys, and give them your list on paper -- a copy for each patrol. Make it real formal and start with "Dear Patrol Leaders, I can offer you the following ... " When camping/hiking with the boys, pick some edibles for your meal or a snack. Asking your PLs, "What's the plan?" Is fair game. If the answer is nothing particular, informing them that, In the process of "you doing you", you are going to do X at time Y ... that's fair game, too. As an MC you sit on boards of reviews. Be asking scouts (especially PL's) what they'd like to do next. Ask PL's how their scouts are doing, and what was the last requirement that they taught and helped them sign off. Ask if there's a particular requirement that all of the boys need. Teaching scouts to teach. Ask the SM's if they have set aside time for teaching ILST trianing. Ask an older scout to lead each chapter. Provide Lunch. Get your committee in shape so they can pay for PL's to go to NYLT training. Low t-Shirts. Don't need them. You have field uniforms. Do you have a patch collection? Empty it by giving the scouts who show up in uniform to outdoor activities a patch from your collection. Reserve your best patches for the sharpest dressed scouts; and your very best for scouts with permanent stains in their uni or patches that look like they sewed them on themselves. National Trails Day. See above about giving them a list. But, respect if they've planned a different activity on that day. The same game. Some scouts pride them selves on perfecting one particular game. The important thing is: does it look like certain scouts are being left out? Do those scouts need a different game? Can you and another leader start one and play it with them until the boys start a round on their own? Bottom line: Actions speak louder than words, so speak loudly with your mouth shut.