Jameson76

No more and no less, use the tools and requirements Sadly there are units that feel the need to put "their" spin on projects. Must have CAD drawings, Must build something, Must put in XX hours, Must have XX Scouts work on the project, Must, Must, Must. While the intentions may be good, as has been noted, these local add-ons do not adhere to G2A. How to politely navigate that deviation can be a challenge

This seems to be part of the overall trend where Scouting is less experiential learning, less growing through group dynamics, less boy led and more, well almost school work focus. Along with MBU and not really becoming "Scouts", this is wanted by parents, who do not want to actually be involved, they just have expectations. They are expecting the new scouts to stay within their peer groups, stay in their comfort zones, get socially promoted through the ranks and be led by the leaders through monitored and "safe" activities. That whole outdoor and weekend camping interferes with sports, is scary and challenging, and boys may get dirty and be uncomfortable. Also how will the parents keep an eye on them, I mean they aren't heading out to the woods as an ASM or leader. In many cases the new crossover families want a warm and embracing Webelos III experience. The challenge is many boys, after 5th grade, find this somewhat boring. The retention rates is very low for many units due to these expectations and families assuming the Scouts program (11 - 17 years olds) will be like Cubs. One of the reasons there is not overall growth in the program. On a macro scale the promise of fun and adventure in many (though not all) cases is not being delivered. Units are getting way smaller. Average size for units at our camp 8 years ago was +/- 24 youth in camp. Last year the average was less than 17 youth. The Scouts that are in units that camp, that challenge them, that get them out of their normal comfort zone, and let the youth run the program keep those Scouts. Those units lose most to aging out, not just having kids not showing up any more. Sadly there are less and less units that are run in this manner.

Massaging numbers can take a good bit of time, you can't just cook the books overnight. Has to be somewhat believable.

The complete lack of transparency by BSA (or DBA SA as part of BSA...it's somewhat confusing) on actual membership numbers is certainly neither Trustworthy or Helpful and is troubling. I would also suggest that the management team is not at all Thrifty with BSA resources. Obviously the numbers are low, or they have no good way to validate or generate membership numbers. Par for the course for an organization that judges success by money raised and not participants

They figure all of us that endured the ISP effort of the 70's have maybe forgotten. (We have not) Even as a youth we fully understood it was a fiasco. I got my Eagle (had to accelerate the process) under the "Old" requirements. On camp staff a few years later there were Old Eagles and New Eagles. Even though they camped and were actually on staff, there was still the pecking order. Scouts can easily read and understand requirements. They see that much of the advancement now is focused on classroom and less on experiential learning. Youth want action, not more school. Go and DO

That is it 100% in our council. Waaay less Scouts and units, waaaaay more staff. There are districts that 40 years ago were massive, they broke those into 3 or 4 districts, overall same geography but far less scouts and 3 times the number of DE's. The structure is like IBM of the 70's, layer upon layer. DE reports to a senior DE who reports to a Field Director who reports to a Are Director who reports to some sort of Council Operations person who I think reports to the Deputy SE who then reports to the SE sorry CEO. The poor rangers at camp have like 5 professional from various levels / areas giving direction. Raise money and hire more people to raise money

My council is a culture of cash is king. The professional motto is ABF - Always Be Fundraising. Everything the council puts out on any platform are the council sponsored events. If they are not able to monetize something (like promote a unit doing a cool outing or a unit providing good service) they do not care. Quite actually more than 1/2 of the paid employees in the council are "Development" or "Marketing" staff. Now you might think marketing is promoting the program, nope, it's about marketing fundraising. Any DE, when they are hired, the description of duties in the announcement first reads leading FOS, popcorn, and camp cards. Oh, maybe recruiting and unit growth, but that is waaaaaay down the list. My council operates with this question: "Do we raise money to have Scouting - OR - Do we have Scouting to be able to raise money?". They are 100% focused in the latter part of this question.

The CYA and concern over activities is (or can be) challenging. Group of us that staff at camp was asked to do something at an upcoming council camporee (think things that go boom). We do this for weekly campfires, use only items that can be legally purchased in our state, understand distances, how to safely do this, etc. Have done this at camp for many years and have done this as several council events. Never any issues and no even close calls. Early on our main guy that organizes this for the camp declined. The organizing group looked at options and due to costs came back to us, we said well sure (it's for the kids). Then we were on a zoom call and they started laying out we needed this, and that, wanted lists of what were using, who was doing it etc, we were texting amongst ourselves (5 or 6 of us) and our main guy sort of stopped the call, said we understood their position, we may not be who they need, have a nice day, and ended the call. They came back to us, we raised our budget and they basically begged us to do it, as we have gotten closer another "staff member" felt the need to exert wishes and input their control and so again we said well then we're out, and have a great day, good luck. They quickly came back and we advised maybe, don't need the staff member involved, and again we're a maybe. They did send payment, we are on the schedule for this to happen in the next few weeks and supposedly we are a go. Made it clear any pushback that day and we can just load back up and roll on home. Bottom line combining the CYA culture, the risk aversion culture, and the staff folks (who feel they are the ones that need to be in charge), it can take the fun and spontaneous nature out of stuff. The rules for cub campouts and what is "required" to be an acceptable camping facility are extensive. I've stayed at hotels with less amenities.

So would I be correct that comparing to the reported EOY 2024 numbers of 1,030,862 BSA (sorry SA 😔) is down 63,888 from that number or 6.19%?

Not a bad change, there are many competing priorities and some Scouts many only be able to attend say 1 night of some 2 night outings, yet can commit to camp each summer or high adventure trips. Agree and as a Camping MB I also used some discretion. We had a troop fold and had many of their Scouts join, 75% were older. Unfortunately they had not done as much weekend camping as our troop did, but, they did go to summer camps. Many were around Jrs in HS, so we had them camp as they could, and looked at summer camp as much as we could for those "extra" nights.

Our Troop stopped by Jimmy Carter's boyhood Farm in January of 2024. We toured and had a Scouts Own Service there. Also stopped briefly in Plains. Reminded the Troop of this on Sunday that they had been there and to keep up with the news on Jimmy Carter and Plains.

I wanted to highlight the subliminal messages. Our SE sent out the "Remember Scouting in the time of giving..." Give me strength. Every message we seem to get revolves around giving

I would posit that National would rather we have no camps and would be happy if Scouts do not go outside at all. That is where bad things may happen. My view is that National and the Councils want to focus on the Cubs that are easier to manage and have parents there to oversee. This whole Troops out and about without generating revenue to National and Councils is not the desired process Scouts is about raising money. Youth out doing things is secondary. Legacy things such as camps are not needed in the new world order.

We think there could be more success if: - It was clear councils appreciated and recognized these district level vounteers. Had recognition for district level volunteers raising more money $$ - councils invested in training and development of these district level volunteers. Had training for district level volunteers to raise more money $$ - council professionals placed a priority on recruiting district level volunteers. Placed a priority on district level volunteers raising more money $$ There - fixed that for you 😀

And there in lies the problem. Get out and do. Way to much focus on classroom merit badges, class instruction, checking boxes, adult leaders preventing experiential learning. How many times have we seen discussions on how to game the system so a Scout can get 20 nights camping? The goal should be to go out and do things, not just meet a metric. 20 nights should be simple to attain, and the Scout will learn volumes along the way. We were looking at what an AOL needs to do in order to earn arrow of light now, apparently camp with a BSA troop is no longer a thing, visit yes, but they can camp with their patrol. But, looking at the "Adventures" the first multiple pages is about safety considerations; food allergies anaphylaxis and epi-pens, behavior around campfires, etc etc etc. No doubt all good things, but this "safety moment" (and it's more than a moment) is front and center for every Adventure. Safety is important, but that cannot be our reason for being. To a parent new to the program, is this the right "Go to Market" thinking? Then they move into a BSA Troop, and "GASP!!!", the youth do stuff on their own!!. Scouts is OUTSIDE and doing stuff. The leadership training should be a less formal item and more something they experience and grow from. They will screw up, we as adult leaders can assist in making the course correction. The simplicity of the Troop program is that a 12 year old whom ignores advice and input and gets wet when their tent leaks or sleeps cold when they did not bring the recommended gear LEARNS A LESSON from THEIR actions. They hopefully realize they need to do better. Later, maybe as they go off to college or first job, they can recall that all advice is not bad. They can help themselves be better.