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  1. The bankruptcy discussion is depressing me. So I have need to focus of good news, like last night. While I have been involved in Scouting as a Scouter for almost 30 years now, and have worked with I don't know how many Scouts over the years, last night was special. I sat on an EBOR for a Scout who was in my first Tiger Cub den back in the day. He is the second one in my den to make Eagle (the first being my oldest), and having watched him grow up I am really proud of him. Especially with the challenges at home he faced. This is a young man who will go far in life.
    10 points
  2. The SCOUTER.com virtual campfire has been lighting our community now for more than 25 years. It's hard for me to imagine that so much time has passed, and the thousands of Scouts and Scouters around the world that have learned and shared together. These are obviously incredibly trying times for Scouting and enormous transition for the organization. But I have always believed that the very best of Scouting was at the grassroots, found in the mentoring relationship of a leader and young Scout, honed on cold winter campouts and sharpened by the lessons of leadership and service. And these fo
    9 points
  3. I'll do my best to explain what I have seen in this thread, so hopefully I don't misconstrue the message. The one thing I would say about @ThenNow is that it does seem that he cares about the BSA and sees the value of the program. He has mentioned how impressed he is by what he sees from many of the comments .... volunteers who spend much if not most of their free time working to provide children an experience that is unique and provides life long value. That said, he was sexually abused in the worst way by his Scoutmaster. No one within the BSA prevented it or took action (as far as he ca
    7 points
  4. Scouting was never intended to be family oriented. Scouting was intended to allow youth to develop themselves on their own. It was designed to replace the gangs of Victorian and Edwardian England, and give them a direction and purpose that would make them better citizens. I have seen first hand what can happen with "family Scouting." It is not pretty, and Scouts will leave. They will get fed up by the constant parental interruptions at meetings and on camp outs. They will get fed up with the parents overruling their decisions on their program. They will get fed up with parents allowing th
    7 points
  5. The thing that has bothered and challenged me for a long time is that scouting where I live doesn't even look like our local high school or the local sports leagues, drama clubs, high school bands, etc. in terms of diversity of membership. I live in a pretty median mid-west suburb. If you go to the local high school you see a fair number of kids whose ethnicity is clearly Middle Eastern, Asian, Indian Sub continent, Hispanic, et al. But if you go to our district camporee the ethnicity is almost uniformly white. There's no reason to think there is any disparity between their parents in
    7 points
  6. It would be a whole lot easier to solve this problem if those deciding the value of eagle understood that eagle is nothing but a tool to achieve a higher goal. "So, your resume says you're an eagle scout. Tell me some stories of how that has taught you something useful." A nice, open question. If they talk about specific skills they've been tested on that tells the value of eagle to that applicant. If they talk about taking younger scouts under their wing and helping them out, it tells a very different value. As my son told me, eagle will get you another look, but it's not worth anything if yo
    6 points
  7. I can tell you, having been either DL or ADL for both of my boys from tiger to AOL, (They are two years apart in age) that the cub program is way to long & repetitive. IMO. I'm just an amateur scouter but if I could change it i would say: Drop lion & tiger ranks Keep the Bobcat requirement Have Wolf, Bear & Webelo ranks Make AOL a specialaward for over/super achiever Introduce ALOT more patrol method in the Webelo rank
    6 points
  8. Sadly the DEI merit badge will be the straw on the camel's back for many volunteers / scouters. Not saying that some items occurring in society currently may need to be highlighted and the units could be venues for that effort. Most not happy with the handling of this will just fade away. Another loss of experience to the organization. Could aspects of the intent of DEI merit badge be rolled / updated into Cit in the Comm, Cit in the Nation, maybe Family Life .... absolutely. Was the DEI mb initiative a knee jerk reaction and viewed by some as attempting to play to and placate some consti
    6 points
  9. Maybe because I asked him to stay. So blame me. I'm Spartacus. RS
    5 points
  10. It's hard to decide where and how to jump back in to the discussion after the big slow. I think it's still better for everyone, especially the majority of claimants if some universal settlement is achieved. If settlement talks collapse, that really shuts out claimants from any state other than the current states with revival or extended SOL periods, which I believe is somewhere between six and twelves states depending on how you count things. Within those states, filing suits against the LCs will probably lead to bankruptcy proceedings for just about every council. It's true that f
    5 points
  11. You've nailed the attitude that I think is so counterproductive to ever resolving youth protection issues in scouting. There are too many who want to rationalize away the situation because they somehow believe scouting is somehow the victim or that the good that it does is worth the cost of the damage.
    5 points
  12. Wherever there are adults that can charm insecure youth, which includes all those places you mention above, there is abuse. That mindset is one ingredient to reduce abuse. Just like car safety, look at the FAA. If everyone dies on a plane the first thing they look for is the black box. Learning what exactly happened is another important ingredient. Rather than general, vague rules about safety, very specific rules based on known cases can address specific ways that failures occured. Next, there's an understanding of the paradox that zero failures is the goal and yet there are f
    5 points
  13. Sorry about that folks... we had some gremlins running wild in the server... should be resolved, and I will try to monitor more closely!
    5 points
  14. Each victim gets about 6k, the lawyers get about 5k, the perverts who committed these terrible acts go unpunished, and future generations of american youth are abused by being deprived of a scouting program. Yup, sounds like a real good solution to me.
    5 points
  15. No, that's not what the "estimation" would be for. Right now we can multiply the number of claims times the Michigan State University settlement amount per survivor in the Larry Nassar and say the total combined liability of all parties should be about $155 billion. BSA and Local Council assets combined are literally 1%-3% of that. Even Century's reserves are only about 50% of that. Or we can multiply it by an average over some group of Catholic diocese abuse settlements, various ones over a series of years, which I think I saw above in this thread as $200,000 per survivor, and get a
    5 points
  16. This is one of that areas that the BSA can certainly clean up. They need to be clear what is a YPT rule and what is a program rule. Mixing the two dilutes the importance of the YPT rules. It has to be clear what rules require a YPT violation and which rules do not. Tenting with your special needs child or bringing your son to an event with a troop for girls is not a YPT violation. This needs to be separate FAQs.
    5 points
  17. As an Eagle Scout, reading through this whole thread has been very disheartening. By way of introduction, I earned my Eagle Scout about fifteen years ago, and I still had enough time left to complete three Eagle Palms. I served variously as Senior Patrol Leader, Assistant Senior Patrol Leader, Patrol Leader, OA Representative, and eventually Vice Chapter Chief and Chapter Chief of my OA Chapter. As Chapter Chief, I helped oversee a yearly Chapter Conclave, sort of a swan song for my Scouting career as I aged out about six weeks later. I even co-taught a course at the University of Scou
    5 points
  18. The IVF existed because law enforcement had no such mechanism. If all BSA did was notify the police, any number of things could have happened, but none of them would have included registering these perpetrators nationally. At the time, the most likely lawsuit would have been from those ineligible volunteers who would sue for libel, should the list be made public. The thought of the FBI tracking a hundred thousand citizens KGB-style would not sit well with anyone in the 70s. That BSA undertook this, with great difficulty, on its own is a credit to its tenacity. It is also betrays a bit of
    4 points
  19. Historically, the BSA added people to the IVF, at least some times, based on just a report that they were talking about starting a Scout unit, not only if they had already been registered. And it also added people to the IVF for conduct that had happened several years before. For example, I remember reading one file about a man who was the wintertime supervisor of the horse-tending program at D bar A Scout Ranch (Michigan) in the early '70s. In the early '80s, the local council got a letter from a now-man who accused him of drinking, drunk driving, giving alcohol to underage boys, and cer
    4 points
  20. Many kids do. Have you ever seen the Race to Nowhere documentary? Pretty tragic but it is the reality and is part of what is driving the push to Eagle at all costs in some regions.
    4 points
  21. This is off topic, but perhaps someone would give me a brief recap. I received my Eagle in 1975. It was not easy and there weren't many of us, or so it seemed. In the past 15+ (?) years has there been an escalation of "win the prize" orientation, driven by Units and parents? I had no particular push or encouragement from my parents, though our SM was keen to have his "first Eagle." As I said back there somewhere, it seems like it's become part of the, "Thou shalt build the college resume at all cost!" culture to me. I both understand and marginally despise it.
    4 points
  22. Thanks to Terry and his admins!
    4 points
  23. Seems to be fixed! Site it flying again! Thanks!
    4 points
  24. News release: Dateline April 1, 2021, Irving Texas.... The Boy Scouts of America in line with the ongoing simplification and re-organization announced the following Merit Badges would be merged, thus allowing the Scout to earn them easier and quicker: Pet care and Cooking. American Labor and Mining in Society. Family Life and Animal Science. Welding and Fire Safety.
    4 points
  25. Because of the confidential nature of mediation there should be little news of the proceedings the next three days. The TCC will be holding its April Town Hall on Thursday April 8th. I suspect there will be some discussion then to the extent possible. Remember, mediation has been on-going and will be continuing so while the next three days are more "intensive" they aren't the start or end of the process and confidentiality rules will continue. Town hall starts at 8PM on the 8th. Link is https://pszjlaw.zoom.us/j/84324072960   TCCBSA.COM for links to past meeting recordings.
    4 points
  26. I suspect there is no grand plan. Rather, there's chaos, just like there usually is. Another hunch is that for the bulk of councils, like mine, all of the property wealth is really a house of cards. Over the past couple of decades it's been spent. Certainly there are councils with money but it's not many. If my council can get silver jte then there are a lot of broke councils. Consider that the bsa declared bankruptcy when the assumed number of cases was in the small number of thousands, when the expected payout was in the few hundreds of millions. Maybe they're not playing bluff. Ma
    4 points
  27. Apparent North Carolina Medicaid has a plan which pays for Boy Scout membership. https://files.nc.gov/ncdma/NC-EB-Comp-chart-5-plan-ENG-v30WEB-073019.pdf
    4 points
  28. I like having your perspective, so consider that an invite. Of course, the more any of us say, the more we find someone starkly opposed to it in whole or in part. But that's the point. Most of us put things out here because it prepares us to have cogent discussions with other scouts, scouters, and concerned community (and even victims of abuse) in real life.
    4 points
  29. I haven't read the full thread (work conference call in a few minutes) but an observation from here in the UK. I run a coed troop and a few years ago we had a joint meeting with the Girl Guide troop who use our building. And sure enough some of my boys started acting up in just the way you describe. And this was inspite of them all already having girls in their patrols and the troop more widely. In addition the both in scouts and guides were girls they went to school with. My observation is the problem isn't girls as such. The problem is girls in an unfamiliar situation. Put the girl
    4 points
  30. I apparently didn't handle it well. My kids suffered because I did not have as much time for them as I devoted to other kids. I was determined not to give them preferential treatment because they were mine and in retrospect was actually harder on them than I was on other kids. They also could never have a day off because if I had to be there, they had to be there although I did miss some critical moments in their lives outside of scouting because I had to be at the scout event while they were elsewhere. This created some resentment towards scouting on my part. Further, if I was trying to be n
    4 points
  31. Covid is a whole new experience, but in the past scouting families don't come back. However, good marketing can do wonders if this a Covid response. I don't get the feel the public cares much about the law suit, so my gut is Covid just pulled families back from a lot of activities. My neighbor has two scout age boys and the parents pulled them from everything a year ago. We've rarely see them out. Families might be ready to jump into a scouting type program. Great marketing opportunity, but National has never shown themselves to be marketing savvy. Barry
    4 points
  32. Yes, I think the integrated unit ship has sailed. Units should be free to do what works for them much the same BSA allows them to deal with religious issues. Do you want an integrated unit? Fine. Do you want linked units? Fine. Do you want separate girl and boy patrols? Fine. Do you want integrated patrols? Fine. Also, that guy who was on that zoom meeting needs to be retired, as do probably most of the upper echelon leadership. They've been in an echo chamber and it's hurting scouting. When BSA first opted to include girls, I briefly mourned the loss of some boy space for my sons.
    4 points
  33. So yes, the short summary is that BSA gave TCC a small concession, one that mostly affects the LCs and not them, in exchange for an extension of the preliminary injunction. On March 8th, it looked like the TCC wasn't going to agree to extend, so they filed a motion asking the Court to extend it anyway: https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/875432_144.pdf https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/875435_145.pdf https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/875438_146.pdf The local councils, and one of the insurers, agreed:
    4 points
  34. Oh, the humanity! Hang on to that picture. If BSA survives the current round of lawsuits, you might be eligible for the next round. Maybe in 10 years. This may be your retirement plan.
    4 points
  35. I was asking my Webelos aged son yesterday what games they play in PE at school so I would have some Den Meeting ideas. He asked me if they could play Dodgeball. Of course I had to explain that it wasn't allowed in Scouts even if they can do it at school. He then proceeded to ask if "Scouts" want them to have fun or just take our money.
    4 points
  36. The message I am getting here is that we want girls for their membership numbers and money but not because they add anything to the program or because we really want to serve them. It's jaw dropping that this person has no idea how insulting these comments are. However, I take hope in this. God is surely looking out for scouts in some way if no one in the mainstream media has yet reported on this.
    4 points
  37. We had a well known national consultant meet with our church leadership several years ago. He had worked with over 1,000 churches and had published over 40 books. One of the programs he looked at was our legacy Scouting program which many members of the church had cited as one of the best programs of the church. He challenged that notion by stating that, in his experience, most Scouting programs were only community groups housed by the church. His definition of church "ownership" of a true Scouting ministry was (1) church adults actively involved in the Scouting program on a regular basis, (
    4 points
  38. THIS! I once was on two council committees, and staffed council events. I questioned a few things. I am no longer active at the council level as a result. I am tolerated at the district level because I am one of the few people to do things at the local level. Also I have quieted down because I have two more sons on their trail to Eagle. EDITED: National extremely rarely listens to the volunteers in the field. Best example is "InstaPalms." national took a poll on whether to instantly award Palms at the EBOR, and do away with the ledership requirement. 94% were either AGAI
    4 points
  39. Yeah, COs are supposed to "approve" adults. I have taken new DL apps and or new committee member apps to our COR and he will sign it for me right there on the front porch of his house. Other times the DE insists on signing adult apps. I don't believe for a minute there is any "approval" that goes on aside from its a new number to put in the adult volunteer column. And its only taken me 4 years as a leader to get this cynical.
    4 points
  40. Personally, I don't think there is much left to do on the "active protections" level of things. I think "no one-on-one" is the only tool necessary to protect children as long as it's really being used. At that point, the only way I can see issues coming up are with scout on scout abuse, or with an adult that is looking for opportunities to break the rules. Unfortunately, those are both going to be essentially impossible to shut down entirely. The one thing I can see being useful would be a little more emphasis with the Scouts on their responsibility to help with maintaining "no one-on
    4 points
  41. I went to sleep thinking about this last night and don't sleep much as it is. Several things have been reinforced in me since starting to follow this forum and then becoming active. Here are a few: 1) Boy Scouts National has a bunch of things that create the outline and infrastructure that is Scouting as we know it. Rankings, books, trademarks, Congressional Charter, Eagle "brand," all the IP, and, etc.; 2) National has four cherry properties with top flight facilities and programs each amazing, compelling and intrinsically and financially valuable. They are not priceless, however;
    4 points
  42. Okay everyone, it's time to chill out. Things are getting a bit intense. It's late. Get a good night's sleep. This crisis will still be here in the morning.
    4 points
  43. You know, that's a good point. I think I will send National a letter, regardless of whether it makes a difference. Any of us who are Eagle Scouts were charged to dedicate our skills and abilities to the common good. Maybe this is a good place to start.
    4 points
  44. I think you've jumped in the deep end of victim blaming and then failed to tread water. Blaming a child victim of sexual molestation or rape and saying the antidote is to keep them out of the program instead of fixing the environment is a non-starter across the board, at least for me.
    3 points
  45. There’s always a variant ... most years we just aren’t bothered. My pandemic guy gets on a call with his buddies, and they pull a mix from their war chest that they think will match whatever’s spreading around. We tease him badly if he’s wrong. He tries harder the next year. It’s the highest-stakes gamble on the planet. Pediatric trials are starting. Meanwhile get your scouts out camping. We’ll know by autumn if a vaccine for the youngn’s does more good than harm.
    3 points
  46. To me, all of these should be reported. Reporting shouldn't be reserved for actual crimes, it should be any violation. In EHS, we are expected to report "near misses". Those are then used to improve training & processes. The written communications is a great one. So many times, I receive an email from a scout directly to me with no one on the CC. I immediately respond to that scout + parent + leader and remind them to never email me without an adult. We use Troop Track as it automatically includes parents on all emails (so this only happens when they email me from their personal
    3 points
  47. A discussion presupposes that there is a way to draw a conclusion on the topic and decide if co-ed is better or not. There are so many different factors in deciding whether to go co-ed or not. Each segment of the population is going to have different factors they favor over others. Trying to make a decision at the BSA level because "girls mature faster and tend to take over" generalizes two genders overall. Not every girl is going to take over. Not ever boy is going to mature more slowly. It also takes away the opportunity for boys to learn from girls and vice-versa. I thi
    3 points
  48. It is an entirely voluntary grouping. Councils are free to cooperate, not cooperate, do their own thing, hire their own counsel, etc. First, keep in mind the Ad Hoc Committee represents ONLY 8 councils Andrew Jackson Council Atlanta Area Council Crossroads of America Council Denver Area Council Grand Canyon Council Greater New York Councils Mid-America Council Minsi Trails Council Second, the committee put a warning on its documents, such as an objection to a motion And Circle Ten has made it abundantly clear the Ad Hoc committee can go do whatever it wants, C
    3 points
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