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  1. IMHO it would also be a good time to rethink "Eagle required" merit badges - subject areas, number, difficulty...
    7 points
  2. One of the Scouting FB groups that had these requirements posted, took down the post and 153 (last time I looked) comments down and is asking folks to report anyone who does post them. Sounds Orwellian to me. I think that they did not like the negative feedback they were receivint about this MB. One poster pointed out that Disabilities Awareness covered a lot of the topics in DEI, yet it was never Eagle required. He stated it is purely a political MB in his opinion. And considering that the requirements have not been approved 11 days before go live and no MB pamphlets for this MB
    7 points
  3. I admire all of our paid Scouters. Our SE is involved and engaged with our Scouts and enjoys spending time with them. Our DEs are exceptional and work tirelessly to assist our units to be successful. Thay are worth every penny they're paid. When I retired I was asked to take on the responsibilities of a DE and I declined the offer as I am well aware of the work they do and the sacrifices they make. If they were paid by the hour they would all be wealthy. Scouting needs those professionals and I am thankful for them.
    5 points
  4. There are JTE points for having patrols and having PLC meeting, but no points for patrols doing anything as patrols, for patrol leaders making any decisions, for the leaders - Scouts - being elected, or for the bulk of time in Scouting being in a patrol context - as required by Scouting - even said to this day in Scoutmaster Training materials to be required. How to bring JTE back to Scouting: I posted suggestions, apparently in the wrong place, 1ST: measure the things that BSA no longer cares about enough to actually do anything to promote them - esp, but not exclusively,
    5 points
  5. Concur. That is why BSA doesn't do it. They give you the minimums. We use BSA directives to establish the minimums, and then rely on judgment, experience, activity or subject matter expert advice, committee advice, and the input from other leaders on the trip. It's a pretty good recipe for success.
    5 points
  6. Here we go again. You're taking what I said completely out of context (and is a SPECTACULAR example of how the left is twisting the discussion. You started with replying to: with You ignored the points made and gave a definition of an unspecified term. I attempted to further clarify the objection with examples of what this side of the political spectrum advocates. You decided to change the subject at hand and imply we are criticizing diversity (apparently the definition you gave). Neither of us are doing so. We are criticizing the abhorrently abysmal "research" (which is lit
    5 points
  7. Well put position. Here is the hook about DEI that gets peoples' attention. Zero posters on this thread, regardless of their position on this issue, are coming across as racist or sexist to me. Yet, as I read through these comments, especially from certain commentors, there is a clear implied accusation that those of us against DEI training must be racist, despite a complete lack of any evidence to the effect. This is attempted bullying from the people who are telling us we all need to stop being bullies. Outside this forum, which is thankfully mostly respectful, the accusations are much
    5 points
  8. This right here is the problem. The terminology used includes a plethora of loaded words/phrases by design. Example: Black Lives Matter. The problem is that there are (at least) 3 definitions. All 3 are used as it suits the speaker to promote their agenda: Black Lives Matter (general concept): no objection here. The lives of Black people DO matter. Anyone who objects to that concept isn't within the realm of reason Black Lives Matter (the organization with "trained Marxists" in charge, by their own claims). Whose goals include the destruction of the nuclear family Black Li
    5 points
  9. This is an inherently political discussion. If BSA doesn't want to have it they shouldn't be requiring a MB about it. The law and oath exemplify scouting enough, and apolitically, to get the message we all agree on across. DEI comes from one side of the political spectrum, the quality of the 'science' supporting it is on par with Eugenics, and we don't all agree it's a good thing or that it is even consistent with the law and oath. Hence this conversation.
    5 points
  10. I wish there was a way to punish those responsible for the abuse instead of punishing the program for today's scouts.
    5 points
  11. Reading through this article makes it obvious the journalist knows precious little about our religion; however, regardless of the writer's ignorance the simple fact is that the increasing ubiquity of these cases means nothing but trouble for the BSA. I have no doubt but that the church will weather these accusations as well as ever (we've endured far more calamitous calumny than this before), but BSA national? They have had their backs to the wall for too long already, and these cases will do far more damage to Scouting than they will to the church. My heart goes out to the innumerable vi
    5 points
  12. As I recall, the consensus of the longtime Scouters I knew was that it was a MB that didn't do any harm, might help some Scouts, but that it was ridiculous for it to be Eagle-required. This DI&E MB is Maoist or Stalinist indoctrination IMO -- utterly ridiculous. Citizenship in the Community could have had a few requirements added to address an expanded view of "community" but creating a whole new MB -- much less making it Eagle-required -- is more social justice nonsense from the folks in Irving that have been destroying Scouting from within for the last decade or two.
    5 points
  13. I have been around the "legal system" for over 40 years and the only conclusion that I can make is that no one will know what will happen until it happens. Until this whole convoluted mess is adjudicated we just won't know. The only positive recourse, as I see it, is to keep our local units alive, support our districts and councils, and work hard to give the kids the best Scouting experience we can. This takes a lot of work and dedication in lieu of uncertainty. I am committed to helping do what is necessary to provide Scouting to every single young person who wants to be a part of this t
    4 points
  14. Most scouts I talk with don't get much out of the MB program as it currently exists. Anything that actually helps them learn a skill is appreciated by the scouts. Anything covered in school is considered a waste of time. Cit badges are all a bust. Shooting, climbing and watercraft badges are great. Camping is surprisingly neutral. They like pioneering if they get the chance to make something fun. First aid is appreciated, but they don't believe they'll ever need it. So, most of the eagle required badges are just hoops they need to jump through. But this is about a specific mb. I think it
    4 points
  15. I served many years on EBORs as the District rep. I think if your project write-up clearly stated how the project was to be funded, and it didn't violate any BSA policy for fundraising, you should be good to go. The funds were donated by family members. It doesn't matter what the source was, as long as it didn't infringe on the Council's FOS campaign for business contributions. Good luck, and congratulations in advance!
    4 points
  16. Good. Those who oppose the mere existence of this badge will cheer the delay. Those who want it done right will cheer that this was rushed and will now be properly vetted.
    4 points
  17. When I coached scouters developing their Woodbadge ticket, I spent most of my efforts on showing them how to set realistic goals. The goal that I had to contend with the most was getting all new scouts to first class in one year. I had to explain that in a boy run program, they don't have, or shouldn't have, that kind of control over the scouts. So, instead set the goal to develop a program where any scout of any age could earn First Class in one year if the scout chooses to make that their personal goal. It doesn't occur to many people that improving the program has more long term benef
    4 points
  18. This was a good week for our Ship. One Scout attained his Eagle rank and another attained his Quartermaster rank. The Quartermaster rank is very rare. And one of my scouts applied for the National Boatswain position. Weeks like this are a rare and special.
    4 points
  19. I doubt that it will, but it could really depend on the MBC for it. For instance, I have seen First Aid MBC's do great jobs and scouts get great value from it. I have also seen it run so badly that the scouts learned nothing about First Aid. One of the best things that happened to our Cub Scout den way back when...was when a Muslim scout joined and the scouts got to learn first hand about religious differences.
    4 points
  20. You are right that none of us at the unit level doing most of the work will be given a chance to provide input on this new merit badge (or on even if it is needed). That is the way it is. 2020 was a hard year on the organization with COVID-19 and the constant radio and TV ads looking for people harmed by the BSA to join a lawsuit. While my troop gained 2 scouts last year, it lost 5 of them due to COVID-19 restrictions. (Actually one was lost due to age out.) My troop did okay in weathering the storm. Myself and my co-volunteers put in a lot of work to make this happen. A number of other
    4 points
  21. Much of this discussion is being shaped by interpretations of why BSA National issued the statement that it did during the protests triggered by the death of Mr. Floyd. Reading that statement, I did not see any of the suggestions made in this thread that National was saying units or leaders or scouts are racist on a broad scale. What I focused on was the statement that BSA had not been sufficiently “brave” about issues surrounding race. I know that Scouting has had a complicated history regarding race issues, though it was not something that I had searched for information about before.
    4 points
  22. If the national BSA wanted to make a statement on racism, then why didn't they make a statement along the following lines... "Given the increase in racial tensions in the United States over the past year, the leadership of the national BSA wants to give thousands of Cub Scout and Scout BSA units credit for being positive models in our communities. A Scout is kind. A Scout is helpful. A Scout is Courteous. A Scout is Friendly. Every day scouts of all races, genders, etc join together to do activities in the outdoors and serve the communities they are a part of. We are proud of Scouts and a
    4 points
  23. In honor of Fred McMurray, one of those knots ought to be a sheepshank.
    4 points
  24. The real question is, what is the minimum number of adults to charter a unit? Four, in five positions. 1 x COR (dual hatted as a MC) 1 x CC 1 x Additional MC 1 x Unit Leader (SM, CM, etc.) Everyone else is icing on the cake
    4 points
  25. As usual, National missed the boat by not marketing the program as a natural for developing habits of DIVERSITY, EQUITY, AND INCLUSION. They only have to show how the BSA Mission is to develop young people into ethical and moral decisions based from the Oath and Law. But no, National is following the politically correct route and setting an image of making change where none is required. I wonder how many even know their Vision and Mission. I have many stories of scouts and parents telling how the activities or our units changed their sons understanding of other's differences.
    4 points
  26. If the GSUSA had marketed their Gold Award half as effectively as they've promoted 'Thin Mints' and 'Do-Si-Do's' we wouldn't be in this mess.
    4 points
  27. I have struggled all evening over whether or not to post this, but my heart tells me I must, and so, having learned never to doubt my heart when it speaks so clearly, here are my thoughts. I actually and truly believe this is one of the saddest changes and toughest blows yet to this generation of young boys who are struggling to grow up in today's increasingly identity-challenged society. The entire purpose of the magazine's creation was to give boys - future men - a monthly collection of stories, articles, selections and even advertisements tailored specifically to the interests of boys
    4 points
  28. There is no "impeachment" of a committee chair. What exactly and precisely is going on? And what is "fake news"? The committee chair is selected by the Chartered Organization through its Chartered Organization Representative. If you disagree with the actions of a committee chair (generally) the point of contact is the Chartered Organization Representative. The committee does not "impeach" the committee chair and has nothing to do with the selection or removal of the committee chair. That said, note I said "generally". If there is a threat to the health, safety, or welfare of sco
    4 points
  29. I had one of my Scouts ask me about some of the musicians (that they all seem to listen to now) from the late 70's and 80's. Specifically Bowie, Elton John, and Freddie Mercury. Did we care they were bi or gay, was that an issue, what did we think of them. My answer was that (and this sort of shocked them), they were more defined by their talent and what they actually did than their persona. Did not recall if they were openly out or swinging at the time, but everyone sort of knew it, but we accepted that they were talented, that is what mattered. I see the challenge today is that
    4 points
  30. I don't know that this badge will be the death of scouting but it has been so poorly implemented that it certainly hasn't helped. We lost several families over it. The ones who had issues with gender or orientation issues have been long gone, but this time it was families with connections to LEOs. It was really ill advised of BSA to throw this out there when they did. Instead of taking the time to do something more thoughtful and measured, it came across as a knee jerk reaction at a time when people were reacting very badly to reactionary things. While it can't hurt for scouts have discussions
    4 points
  31. There's a reason why at the Cub Scout level the Duty to God related adventures and at Scouts, BSA the Family Life merit badge explicitly provide for the PARENTS to certify/sign off. Because while I would be hard pressed to find a religious or moral objection to using two half hitches vs. a taut line hitch, I absolutely know and can identify families and major religious denominations in the U.S. that religious or moral objections to how "inclusive" we as a national are regarding sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity. Case in point: I honestly have no idea how a unit with a Cath
    4 points
  32. I can see how you're not happy with it. Yesterday there was a lot of really good discussion on this thread about how this MB wasn't going to work. I wake up this morning and there is suddenly a lot more posts that are starting to get heated. I'd rather see the good discussion. If there are points that the video makes that you want to bring up, go for it. This country is tearing itself apart because most people can't talk about anything without jumping into personal insults. As for this MB, I don't like it because A) it's just school work and B) there are people here that are very muc
    4 points
  33. The video was 100% on target and useful to the discussion. The point is the D,E&I badge will pull in politics. Period. The video was 100% on-topic. BSA was the original non-political organization. Hold up and wave the flag. I'm good with that. Pledge of allegiance. Fine. Teaching how government works fine. I've been involved for almost 20 years. Perhaps it's time for me to finish up too. It's not that I don't want to be part of an organization like BSA. I'm not sure I want my kids involved and subject to the whims of political discussions like this, left or right. T
    4 points
  34. Two sided discussion is important. This badge can not sit in a one-sided political vacuum. The issues raised here really reflect that we've failed to teach "civics" as a school topic and "civility" as a social need. We need to be able to discuss these topics. That means that videos like about should be discussed without people getting upset and irate at each other. Welcome to the D,E&I (pronounced deny) badge.
    4 points
  35. Because of the inherent political agenda of the entire enterprise, and the misguided intent with which it has been established. I will not indoctrinate Scouts into the language and mindset of "social justice warriors". Nor will I tread on territory I deem sacrosanct to parents. Over the past few weeks, I have been deep in research and thought, prayer, and in discussion with conservatives and liberals whose opinions I value. This may be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and ushers me out the door of the Boy Scouts of America. Although I have a fundamental belief that our Amer
    4 points
  36. Likely, BSA has no more idea what they mean by "intersectionality" than it knows the difference between the Marxist, anti-capitalism, abolish the police , laws, jails, and courts political party Black Lives Matter and the concept that "black lives matter." It just sounds "woke. to folks in a panic to seem "woke."
    4 points
  37. Because we are continually working with our scouts teaching how to work with each other, be respectful, etc. It's what the whole scouting program is about. Scout Law and Oath. But we do it thru activities and the necessity of working with each other. I think @CynicalScouter had a great response above. But even more, it's offensive because I'm not sure I want to trust my scout to joe-blow MBC to get their view on diversity.
    4 points
  38. Councils are going to be scrambling to get MBCs for this PLUS all Councils have been told to expand their diversity up to and bordering on the creation of quotas. This was part of the Churchill plans
    3 points
  39. I hope this survey is not another non-transparent, manipulated post justification of a National decision. My $0.02
    3 points
  40. Hi @Chadamus, Sorry to be a few days late here. It's probably also worth noting the BSA publication, "Troop Leader Guidebook, Volume 1" describes a role of Assistant Scoutmaster for Advancement In the same manual, it also says: My interpretation of the BSA's materials is that a Troop can assign most of the traditional duties of an advancement chair/coordinator to an ASM. There still should be someone overseeing this on the Troop committee, but the week to week work can indeed be done by an ASM. Hope this helps.
    3 points
  41. Here's an update from an Indian SM on the "longer" other side of the pond: Hope it helps to know we are not alone in our trials.
    3 points
  42. You painted a WIDE brush with your claim. Let's say that, for example, the Catholic Church charters a unit. You think they are going to support a scout leader as a homosexual? They shouldn't. Not because of what I or anyone else says/thinks on the subject, but that their statements of faith prohibit it. https://www.usccb.org/committees/laity-marriage-family-life-youth/homosexuality If BSA is going to say "You have to embrace our opinions on homosexuality", they are asking the church to go against their own teachings. That goes against the whole "supporting people of faith" that scouts purp
    3 points
  43. @CynicalScouter, leaks don’t count. The official requirements and 2021 changes are here: https://www.scouting.org/programs/scouts-bsa/advancement-and-awards/merit-badges/ That’s where all of the scouts and scouters in the country go to get an outline of their badges. (BTW, it annoys me that this can’t be a single page of plain text with a navigation bar on the margin.) As of today, there is no DE&I MB. I got nothing to tell my scouts/scouters about. I’m not that surprised. Even without controversy, publishing on a six month time frame is a challenge. I’m pretty sure at
    3 points
  44. @Owls_are_cool (and anyone in his position), as a general rule, if your son wants to take a break from scouting or leave it altogether ... let him. Don’t let current events be a tipping point one way or another. Regarding requiring this badge for Eagle. Nobody has to earn Eagle. No SM has to encourage a scout to earn it. I recommend that you take this as an opportunity to use advancement for something different: fun. Enjoy the hiking and camping and service projects and get scouts to Life rank. The few who want to be Eagle Scouts will find their way.
    3 points
  45. Our "Scouts BSA Troop for Girls", which is the term we consistently use for identifying ourselves, has had about 60 girls and their parents visit with us during our open houses at the beginning of each semester. I have met every one of them and none were even remotely "confused" about what program they were visiting. Of the 45 girls who ultimately joined us, only two also continue their association with a former GSUSA unit. Approximately 10 had previously been in Girl Scouts, but affirmatively joined us to associate with the BSA-style program, most often citing wanting to be part of a progr
    3 points
  46. You forgot ability, ethnicity, faith and financial background. And that is the crux of my point. In listing some groups, you are showing bias against others. Ultimately, the badge is hypocritical. The "important" (sic) terms of "diversity", "equity", "inclusion", "bigotry" and "intersectionality" are all based on the controversy whirling around a current social agenda. "There are real problems with this agenda, however. The first is that it’s dangerous, in exactly the manner it is hypothetically designed to fight. The argument made by those who are truly prejudiced has alw
    3 points
  47. Good question. qwazse, Injecting your bias on how to do a lashing or how to gather and use tender is much different, I hope you would agree, than injecting your bias on sexual orientation or gender identity.
    3 points
  48. Here is a National Office Hours video put out recently... Discusses DE&I requirements and says they are already approved (and that was 12 Nov.) Scouts may start earning the badge on 01 Jan, required to earn for Eagle on 01 May. Also notes that there will be no pamphlet, just Notes for the Counselor. (Can't find those yet.) Also says there will be rank requirements for Scout through First Class. Rank requirements will not be in Scoutbook until 01 May. https://scouting-org.zoom.us/rec/play/p2Uq0xy0QJ9DAOZf1mIK2AKqCPaI-sCDyhQ8XSF1ToF-3PRz6i7nykYtnGe1nuIea6nyz57NNl2lO
    3 points
  49. A scout is kind. A scout is courteous. A scout is friendly. If diversity and inclusion = being kind, courteous, and friendly to all peoples (and conversely holding no bigotry against them) then why the need for a merit badge? That is why some people (not me) find offensive. It implies that scouts/scouters and/or the entirety of Boy Scout of America (and/or specifically Scouts, BSA) is chock full of bigots, herein defined as white men who need to be re-educated in the gospel of critical race theory, gender identity, intersectionality, etc. Now I don't personally hold th
    3 points
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