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Entered the program in November 1964; and in it for the long haul. If we cannot adapt and change we will indeed wither and die. As for OA, chapter meeting tonight. Chapter Advisor is female, as are 3 other senior adult members.

Thank you. Let me provide what I hope is an equally well stated rebuttal. I don't see the addition of girls to the program as adding a layer of richness, I see it as replacing a layer of richness that already exists. A place for boys to hang with their mates around the campfire is a rich and important experience. There's plenty of literature out there that suggests today's men don't have other male friends and it's impacting their mental health. The Boy Scouts has always been a place for boys to learn how to make male friends, nay, brothers. That process will be irrevocably changed w

FYI, the Trumbull County, OH coroner, Dr. Thomas James from Ohio is in attendance at National Annual Meeting. As I understand, he was previously Council President of the Greater Western Reserve Council which died in 2017. Unknown is his current Council and position. So far, his services have not been needed, the BSA still lives. http://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2018/05/dems-keep-dr-james-as-coroner/ http://www.tribtoday.com/news/local-news/2017/01/boy-scout-councils-merge/

Fair enough, here goes... I pushed for inclusion in the BSA for many reasons. Sometimes because I thought that doing so would benefit the programs, sometimes because I felt that morally it was right, and sometimes because I felt that what the BSA was doing previously was just wrong (kicking kids out and denying advancement on the basis of sexual orientation, for example). The latter points can and have been debated here ad nauseum. On the "benefit the program" front, I think inclusion adds an additional layer of richness to the BSA. I have yet to hear about any gay scout or scouter

not being a parent, imo, is a HUGE negative against him when it's an organization dedicated to youth that's trying specifically trying to roll out "family scouting". You cannot even begin to relate to the family unit if you don't have one of your own. It's just one more ding against him coupled with a bevy of decisions he's been at the helm of... and honestly even with all that, it's the lying more than anything else that's at the heart of the problem!

While Surbaugh has risen through the ranks, that is part of his problem. He has not been a volunteer in a very long time, assuming he was a Scouter in college. And the bulk of his professional experience has been with Exploring and Learning for Life, and not traditional Scouting. From an interview somewhere, he deliberately had no children in order to focus on his career. That's another negative in my opinion because A) how can you relate to parents if you are not one and B) How can you relate to modern youth when you have no kids of your own?

I'm fairly new as a scouter, having transitioned from being a parent who volunteered when there was a need to be met. A change of job expectations of being available 24x7 regardless allowed that to happen. My kids are still below 18, but one's turning that magic age this year. I'm old enough that most men my age are within the "grandpa-hood" phase of their life, so I'm more mellow and experienced in some things. And I'm quite capable of not being mellow and certainly I have a lot of things left to learn. Yet I do have some breaking points. If I find I can't assist in some way then

So so far from the truth, and missing the reality of what the Jamboree will be like by so much.

This is getting a little too personal. I would never use this as a criteria for hiring a coach or choosing a unit scout leader. I would not want BSA to use parenthood as a basis to discriminate in their hiring or promotions. It's wrong.

@gblotter, it occurs to me that my previous answer was a bit rambling and unsatisfactory. I do believe the membership losses will be greater than just the LDS and will reverberate beyond the intermountain west. The LDS church was the counter-balance to the forces fighting for change. I suspect the Church was instrumental in local option decisions that were handed down in 2013 and 2015 (even though snubbed by the BSA on the latter decision). The Church, I think allowed non-LDS scouters some hope for stability in a live and let live program. With the Church's departure, there is no longer a

G, Mike Rowe would be an outstanding CSE. Unfortunately, he'll never be selected. Not in a million years. Why? He'd upstage everyone at HQ in Irving. Without even trying.

But what you probably were expecting was for me or someone else to say, NOBODY expects the Spanish Inquisition. What I will say instead, is: Imagine, a Jewish person being an Inquisitor. The shoe has certainly landed on the other foot.

That's a good idea. We have a couple of brats in the troop who I wouldn't mind selling off. Oh, not that kind of brat...

The program is loosing it's way. Scouting is about boys finding themselves through their bad decisions, not get kicked out for making one. In fact, our motto is: the troop is a safe place to make bad decisions. The more, the better. There really isn't a protocol, you need to talk to the COR and CC. Approach them calmly and with questions. Let them work this out first. Barry

While I cannot speak for anybody else, as a female, I would have felt perfectly comfortable reading a magazine called "Boys Life". If I were younger and joining the BSA because of its program, I would not want or expect the program to change its name or that of its magazine just to accommodate me. Obviously, it would make sense to change a few things here and there (like the Family Life merit badge requirement on what it means to be an effective father). But I don't see why changing the name of the program or the magazine is necessary or "Thrifty".

I would hardly call an article that accuses BSA of "sexualizing" its Scouts and throwing a two-week orgy a "well-written" point of view.

A new uniform hardly effects the program. The tenderfoot requirements are just to do certain physical tasks (run a mile, stretching, pushups/sit-ups), make a plan for improve,ent, try again in thirty days and show improvement. Physical fitness is basically the same, but your improvement plan lasts twelve weeks. I don’t see any reason that would change for girls. The Family Life merit badge will probably be amended to say parent. I hardly think a one word change to one merit badge is a program change. As I said earlier, my son’s troop has mixed gender patrols now, with the bl

Actually Youth Protection does affect program. Up until May 2018, a patrol could do day activities on their own without any adults. I remember doing patrol meetings, patrol shopping, and patrol hiking without any adults around. That is not more. Oh and not to mention no more patrol camping without adults, but that happened in 2012. Those are some of the YOP changes that have affected Scouts since my day. Oh and let's not forget, you must have TWO 21+ year olds who are registered, a parent or 18 year old Scouter no longer counts. I know of units that will affect, and it would have affect

First to say thanks to Matt and Mrs Matt for swinging by last week. It's always nice to have visitors! The necker you gave us is now hung up in our HQ alongside others from foreign visitors. Secondly Matt is completely right. While looking at how other countries do things is good in terms of getting fresh ideas and seeing things from a different perspective whatever BSA comes up with has to work for BSA. It's no good pointing at any one country and saying "lets do that" because it may not work for you. It should be a case of saying, country X has age ranges that work like this, why does i

That's the thing, the girls I want like the product we have. If they don't know that they'll like it, changing the name of the product doesn't help. Keep the name, add a tag line: "also for girls who like scouting." Sell, sell, sell.

Ah those knee high socks! after a few weeks at summer camp, your suntan looked very strange indeed. I had just made first class when the ISP was rolled out , so I never earned any skill awards. But as a PL I found them very useful when I needed to find my scouts in the dark. clink-clink

Hi, I'm Desertrat, and I'm an ISP survivor! Wore the infamous red beret. Camping merit badge earned fair and square, but had the non-required border color. Earned the mandatory amount of skill awards to progress, only eight if I recall, but dang they were noisy. Scout handbook had little outdoor material. Written on a third grade level. Eagle in 77. The old time scouters guided us through the valley of the shadow of the ISP. Sure, we wore funky threads, endured bad literature from National, but we got the old program.

I cannot put aside the doom and gloom because a Scout is TRUSTWORTHY.(emphasis) National has not done anything correct since 1972, EXCEPT bring back Green Bar Bill. Everything has further deteriorated Scouting in the US. And I do not believe these current changes have been well thought out. I do not think we are headed in a good direction. I see a smaller BSA with less resources for serving Scouts.

What I have quoted above is the first sentence of this thread. FireStone asked that in this discussion, we PUT ASIDE the doom and gloom. I see later posts here where the doom and gloom has not remained off to the side, but is front-and-center. There are many, many other threads where doom and gloom is the order of the day. (Just as an aside, don't people get tired of that? Day after day, week after week of the sky is falling? Even if I thought the sky were falling, at some point I would get tired of saying it. Of course, I know that a couple of people are already thinking, See, there he

From the press release, alcohol will not be offered at Jamboree - bravo! However, I think most of the furor is centered on condoms at Jamboree. I see no direct mention of that hot potato by BSA or WOSM. They were clear about no alcohol, so why not be clear about the most volatile topic (condoms). Maybe I missed something in a veiled reference like "adhere to the existing health requirements developed to address the needs of international health norms in a manner more aligned with local practices"? Is it beyond their ability to just say what they mean?

There will be an entirely-expected spike in Eagles next year as LDS Scouts prepare to exit BSA, followed by a big drop off in 2020 and beyond. Who knows how many years it will take to regain previous levels (if ever). If you believe there are too many Eagles (in numbers and percentages), the LDS church just fixed that problem for you.

Sorry, I am trying to upload photos and had a problem. There are still additional items that need to be purchased. But our council does not want to spend the money or they don't have the money, or didn't budget for it. Whatever. I can only do my part. I could get the rest of what I need for around $750.00. That would include 2 extras of each alphabet/number set to replace missing letters and numbers that occasionally happen. I'll try to get some photos of the completed bins when I finish them. Let me know what you think. Dale Here is the pile of too

I am putting this thread in I&P just in case it goes off the rails. I don't want to start any debates, judge anybody or imply anybody is more passionate than somebody else, I honestly am just curious about something. So, for the folks who are excited about girls being able to join Scouts, BSA next year, were you a Boy Scout as a youth, are you an Eagle Scout, and have you been a Scoutmaster? And because I don't want to cross post in a different forum, if you are excited about Scouts BSA members--along with Venturers and Sea Scouts--soon to become eligible to join OA, were you an

Everyone in this morass, ideally, presumably, is a Scout. A Scout is trustworthy. We made it clear to our Scoutson and, indeed, to any Scout I've had dealings with that A Scout Should Say What He/she Means, because they will be believed. If a Scout said to me, "my parents are gonna kill me if I lose this sleeping bag." I would ask him , do you REALLY mean that? If so, we have other problems to deal with than an empty threat (empty?) If your Scout said what he is accused of saying , and was interpreted as making a threat to the other , younger Scout, rather than a hyperbolic expre

No, No, No . . . What you are speaking of and doing is called a "Legacy". Whether those that come after you will appreciate it or not depends on THEM and YOU. When you teach the Cubs (and their parents !) pride of craft and respect for tools, it has to trickle down some. No guarantee, but some. I learned both (Pride of Craft and Respect for Tools) ,no doubt, from my dad. My son has picked it up, and is now , at 24, the manager for a multi county farm operation. When I was in high school, I organized and set up the Stage Crew , it's storage bins and racks. Years After I gradua

Exactly.

In general, the courses don't cross-count. BALOO is a one-day training for Cub Camping, IOLS is an overnight focused on Boy Scout skills. If you see yourself as an ASM/SM next year I'd say take the drive (within reason, say an hour or less), camp, and get both done.

I disagree. If council actually acted like an independent organization with a charter from BSA, instead of behaving like a wholly owned arm of BSA, you might have a point. But it doesn't. BSA says jump, and the council asks "how high". Council deserves to share the blame right along with national.

Nothing logical it, except for holed-up Madison Avenue ad men! It does not follow that scratching "boys" makes girls feel welcome. Most every young woman who joined my crew beamed with pride when I gave them their membership card, shook their hand, and said, "Welcome to the Boy Scouts of America." I once heard Tommy Hilfinger insist, "Never change your brand, ever." You know what would really be cool? A wrap-around cover, that has "Boy's Life" on one side, "Life for Girls" on the other. Same content in the pages between!

BAH GOD...That's carebear3895's music!!

I've been really tempted to whip up a "Scouting Isn't Dead" t-shirt design in the style of the old "Punk's Not Dead" graphics. 😄

Extremely large one, more than 18%-19% that is their percentage of total membership. That's because there is intense pressure to earn Eagle from the LDS units I've seen, and heard about from LDS Scouters. Just look how Utah, which has 80+% of its membership in LDS units always leads the country in most Eagles produced.

Understood. I know how sensitive that question is. I have family and friends who are not capable of having children. It is something I would not ask, in any situation nor something that can be legally asked when interviewing someone for a job. BUT, when someone brings it up themselves, and makes a point to show how they can dedicate themselves completely to a job because they do not have kids; then I consider it a legitimate concern.

So pretty much do what Scouts UK did. They awarded the title "Chief Scout" to Bear Grylls. Doesn't make any key decisions, but acts as the ceremonial head to the organization. National will never go for it. They love their key 3 setup too much

Update: I emailed the SM and expressed my concerns regarding the worksheets and my son’s learning disability. He replied with several options, including skipping the worksheets altogether. They will continue to use the worksheets in the troop, but I’m glad this accommodation was made for my son. Thanks for the helpful advice. It was nice to get your feedback and suggestions on how to effectively approach the SM with my concerns.

Well, my son’s Troop (in a rural but very liberal state) already has mixed patrols. And....nothing. No membership,loss, nobody has complained. Son enjoys Scouts, is enthused, and the Troop is growing. It’s been great. They currently have six girls, out of a troop of thirty. I’d add that son has recruited two friends to join— in both cases, their parents expressed concern over the history of Scouts. Sat down with the Scout aster, talked about where the program is and is headed, and signed their sons up. As to what it looks like— I think normal. The Troop is transitioning to Scout-l

@desertrat I am an ISP graduate too! Red beret and you forgot the knee high green tube top socks with shorts. For some reason I earned a TON of skill awards. Old timers guided us too: Eagle Scout former USMC Scoutmaster and former Army ASM. We were hard core campers who always did a lot of pioneering. So we got the old program too

I would encourage the folks who believe the most recent change in the BSA is a good thing to offer me their vision of the future of the BSA. I can't see it from where I sit. Change my mind!

Problem is, there are fewer and fewer old school Scouters left. Heck some of the Scouters I know are ISP survivors, and see nothing wrong with camping only when it's nice, doing indoor activities, and "one and done."

I have passion about these issues, and I share the disappointment felt by many. But ... I think the Family Research Council does themselves a disservice by characterizing the situation with such statements. These kinds of descriptions do not advance their cause, and only make themselves look less credible. The facts themselves are strong enough arguments without resorting to ridiculous language.

Said by a guy from the land of Mic O Say

Weird, I always thought the audience of Boys' Life extended beyond the BSA.

No - not any different in my generation, but back then boys at least had things like Scouting to provide some balance with male role models. Those options are now narrowing (just sports teams?). Not all boys happen to be sporty (I certainly wasn't).

I'm in England at the moment. I visited @Cambridgeskip's troop and really liked what I had a brief view of (thanks for the tour, Skip!). However, if the BSA plan is to emulate the UK plan then we're in trouble. This is nothing against UK scouts. Their program is great for them. Our program should be great for us. There are cultural differences that won't translate. We are hung up on eagle. I've read their forum and have never seen the types of arguments we have. They don't have summer camps like we do. I'd much rather see a return to GBB. Fun with a purpose. I ran a camporee based on that and

featherswillfly I'm in the middle of my Wood Badge training. I can't speak for what Wood Badge was before they revamped it (Wood Badge for the 21st Century). Our course covers two 3 day weekends Friday morning to Sunday evening. The first weekend was primarly indoors with the emphasis on leadership training and team building instruction. We spent a coniderable amount of time learning about how to turn a patrol into a high performing team. We were divided into Patrols , I am an Owl, and we did everything together as a patrol. We each will take a turn as Patrol Leader and will