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About Buggie

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    Senior Member

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  • Location
    South Central US
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    Hiking, computers, and camping without traditional tents.
  • Biography
    Scout dad who finally has time to join a troop.

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  1. Buggie


    No, I was a parent for many years on the outside looking in with no knowledge of where the rules even were. I also respected my son's wish to have a place without parents looking over his shoulder. I was finally able to get in because of a job change that gave me more freedom and I joined a different troop to keep out of my son's hair. I think he had a far better experience that way. Once I got my green light to join, I was very keen on knowing the rules in general, specifically the advancement section. Mainly because I recognized how some made up or misinterpreted rules were used against my son. And thus, could also be used against other scouts. People are taught not to question the authority. I'm certainly no rules expert and I can easily forget or muddle things myself. My sharpness comes from events involving my own son. Things where Scouters were making up stuff in regards to advancement etc. There were gates put up because of retaliation when my son reported being bullied by a popular scout. As far as YP, we had an adult outside of scouting who did the classic items you see in YPT2. I'm extremely thankful my wife and I listened to our guts and kept our kid away from him. He was eventually arrested by the FBI and was put in prison. That's why I caution folks who are going to take YPT2 for the first time because it triggered things in me because I saw all the different things that lowlife tried to do to my son and us. As far as a refresher, I'm not sure. We all had to take the YPT2 last spring. I haven't seen anyone who isn't aware of it, except for that first incident I mentioned where the adult was actively looking to break the provisions. That was bad in all respects and they were called out on it by others too. All those other incidents were simple nods to the affect that we were vigilant and stepped up correctly. I still laugh at that scout who kept following me when I was trying to stay out of a 1-on-1 situation. The scouts don't understand that side of things. If there is any aspect of training we should do, it's to do a very simple talk with scouts about not being in a 1-on-1 situation outside of family members.
  2. Buggie


    We had the annual... what I call "gun" event this last weekend. This event is your standard go out and shoot and throw at targets located located at various stations scattered super far away from each other that lasts all day. Lots of fun for everyone who wants to go. Lots of walking too. One of our scouts hit all five skeet which was cool. However for me it was a constant "Youth Protection must be observed" type of weekend. With adults getting caught in Youth Protection types of situations where we were generally of one mind and didn't have to even talk about what to do. There was only one time where I had to come down hard on someone's bad idea so it wouldn't become an issue. At the meeting before the weekend, the adult with a very bad idea had to be told how really awful his idea was. He must have lost his mind or something. One of the scouts had double booked themselves and had to work Friday evening until well after the troop was on the road. So he couldn't come with us. The adult in question tried to figure out a way for this scout to still attend and was trying to hook up another non-family-related Scouter to drive him early Saturday morning in time to make the event. The adult knew it was a YP violation, but was still wanting to do it anyway because he trusted the other Scouter completely. I made it very clear that it was a violation and shouldn't be done. I warned first and when that didn't seem to change the adult's mind, I made it super clear it would be reported if it happened. I was also proud of the fact that I was not alone and that three other Scouters stated the very same thing. End result? No violation. However I was very irritated he even contemplated it and I was worried he would try something behind our backs or something. It gave me a difficult time sleeping that night because I knew if it happened and I reported it, that would mean the end of one and possibly two adults in scouting and that as the one who reported it, I probably would have a horrible time with the troop for getting two other scouters kicked out. But I was resolute that I would report it and I prepared by looking up the procedures. I was extremely thankful that nothing happened that needed to be reported. The second involved me. I was in a car with another adult. No scouts in the car. When we got to the event site and finished checking in, a scout joined us for the final ride out to the campsite. All good. We parked at the campsite to unload. Driver got out to ask if that was where he could park temporarily. About half a minute went by and I realize I was alone in a car with a scout. And it was cold outside. And I wasn't wanting to leave the warm car yet. So I got out and put on my coat, knowing that the scout would stay in the car where it was warm. Scout followed me out of the car and wanted to stand and talk with me, sheltered from the wind by the car. I moved. He followed. I was internally cursing the situation. I went well out of the sheltered area and into the biting wind next to others. It was certainly cold. Scout followed, but now we were surrounded by others. The third was quickly and easily averted. A younger scout wanted to sleep with an older scout. About 5 years apart. I was already starting to voice the issue, when the SM turned to me to verify the age gap that could sleep together. He knew that it was probably an issue at least. Those two scouts did not share a tent. I had to internally boggle that the SM had to even ask. The cold must have done something to his brain. The fourth YP item that could have been an issue was a simple out of sight situation. The adult was "explaining" in a controlled, yet unhappy way, that a task had not been completed as directed. He was doing it out of sight and sound of everyone, perhaps because he didn't want to make it a public event or because the item in question was right there in a heap in the trailer instead of folded and stored as had been requested before multiple times during the day/evening. (it had at least been moved from out between the tents to the trailer) As it was, I happened upon it because the scout had to pass through the kitchen area and go by me to turn the corner into the trailer and I glanced in to see what was going on. I told my fellow cook what I was doing. I planted myself as a distant observer where I could see and hear what was going on, but I wasn't in the scout's direct sight so he didn't get the feeling of being ganged up upon. Afterwards I made sure the Scouter knew that he needed to be sure he wasn't alone with a scout. I know he wasn't thinking as he was irritated. But still, one must be ever vigilant. And the last event was during the event campfire by the lodge at the entrance. Said older and last year scout from the last paragraph didn't feel like going to the event campfire now because life was unfair after his bad attitude and decisions were pointed out. And we had another 12 y/o scout who had gone to sleep right after chow. We kept forgetting about him since he was in his tent. The other adult who I was hanging out with really wanted to go to the campfire, but he saw the issue when I asked him to stay. I didn't have to explain it thankfully. So we sat around our campfire and chatted.
  3. Do they throw in a buzz cut as well? And yes, it does sound like a lot of fun, though the blur between scouting and military does give me pause even as an optional thing. But that's me.
  4. Buggie

    Eagle Board of Review (Appeal)

    I can't speak for Eagle paperwork, but definitely for membership paperwork. When I filled out my first membership application, we had several folks go over it to make sure all the items were correctly signed and dotted because they warned that the Council was known to reject or lose things that weren't filled out properly. If rejected, they waited for you to call them as it was easier(?). Even with due diligence, some how mine got lost somewhere between the front desk at the scout shop and the adjoining council office room in charge application processing. No idea where in that chain it got lost at or why. So second application was filed and finally accepted.
  5. Should state that this is the minimum. I don't think there is a maximum recommendation. I've always held that the more you have, the quality starts to fall. Some scouts are doing great, others are doing their best to skate.
  6. Buggie

    Howdy from the Texas panhandle

    Awesome! Welcome to the virtual campfire.
  7. Try "NotEagleDad" for that complete disconnect. Just don't argue with yourself.
  8. I know it doesn't solve the problems, but I was thinking of a two part camping trip. Have the adults set up base camp, then the scouts hike out with two Scouters. The two scouters go only for "regulation" purposes *wink wink*. Stay out for a night or two. Come back the morning of departure. And I do mean make it a fun hike. Do some woodcraft. Or Canoe to the other side of whatever body of water. Treat it as a "how to get out of your comfort zone" type of camp out. Base camp is close enough that you can get back if needed to, but far enough away that the other adults don't wander into the scout's activities. Or set up an emergency pick up spot that you can drive to in case of emergencies. Just ... Something to get a physical gap between the scouts and the rest of them. You know, I like this idea for my own troop. I think I'll pitch it to see if we can get some bites on it. It could be set up with a progressive set of lessons on how to do things away from camp type of activities. See if anyone wants to add wilderness survival to it.
  9. Buggie

    As we approach 1 Feb 19...

    Agreed. But that is another classic battle of "we can't count on the scouts so we'll decide what to do". I'm trying to push from several directions to get folks moving in things. My aspiration is getting more fun for the scouts while outdoors and moving us all to the program. Trying to spark stuff in both directions. I've recently been more hopeful now that we've picked up an ASM who is very program minded. He has a bit more traction so I am hopeful. I don't know how he is on more activity yet.
  10. Buggie

    Last Read Message

    There is a dot/circle by the thread title, a star if you've posted in it. Not sure of the color because of color insensitivity. Click on that to go to the first unread post on a page. Course it can't tell where in a page you left off if you stop before you reach the last post on a page. Still should help you get to where you need. And the "go to unread posts" link/button helps find what to catch up on.
  11. As others have stated, option B. It's past the point of gentle touches. The parents are destroying the troop and though the scouts are not the problem, sometimes you have to do the painful act to prevent a worse event down the road. They have been endangering the troop on camp outs by threatening to pull out unless they get their way. They will continue to threaten the troop with dire actions to get their way. I would definitely have the district/council be aware of the what and the why, with the focus on the endangering scouts with threats to abandon scouts on camp outs and any other things that have disrupt the current troop. Let them know what has been done to try and resolve the issues, but that they have failed. And yes, through casual conversation, let any troop that might be receiving them know of the problems you've had. You don't even need to let them know WHO. Only communicate that there was an issue and it got this bad and this is what happened and why. It is up to them to decide what to do, but it's polite to let them know the reasons and that it isn't the scouts who are the issue, but the parents. Forewarned is forearmed.
  12. Buggie

    As we approach 1 Feb 19...

    I've been posing the question to scouts during their BORs. "What would you like to do?" Hoping I could help facilitate the PLC to plan some sort of activity other than basic camping. Our older scouts don't care about anything. Younger scouts tend to want to do fishing. That's about it. Bums me out because I don't care for fishing, but I love hiking and canoeing. I have experience in two troops. My current troop doesn't do anything other than car camping that I've seen so far. They have a history of going out and hiking along the Ouachita Trail for a stretch of a few days. Because the current troop doesn't do much beyond car camping, I've also been bringing up the Council's high adventure treks that are offered in the spring and fall seasons, along with the other items they might be interested in. No one ever bites though. The other troop alternated every two years with a week long high adventure trek. Mountain hiking/camping one summer, two years later a canoe trip, two more years and back to the mountains. All adult organized (which is another irritation I have), but at least they got the scouts OUT a few times. If the scout lasted their average seven years before ageing out, they had the opportunity to do one of each at least. Typically first years scouts were not allowed to go, in lieu of summer camp instead.
  13. I'm unclear on what constitutes a unit approval for a scout's Eagle project. I get that the process requires the scout to get the unit's approval (among other signatures) before taking an eagle project to the next level of the process before taking the Eagle Project Workbook to the Eagle Project Board. What I don't have a good handle on is what level of review is needed for the committee approval signature. We have one scouter who is saying all the scout needs for the approval is a general idea and concept to recognize if this is a project that can go forward. Yes? Sign and wish the scout well. However the project is very large in size and complexity and the scout came to the committee with a few photos of the area and a general idea of what the project was. The committee found that there were too many basic questions that hadn't been thought through. No paperwork had been filled out. Nothing other than here's the general idea and some pictures. I felt like it was one of those Mickey Rooney and Judy Garland items where the idea was pitched with too much general "we've got a barn and we can make costumes, let's put on a show!" type of proposal. Especially if the scout was really planning on meeting the project start date. (Scout's gotta do what they do, as learning from mistakes is expected.) So what constitutes the level of review for this committee approval? We don't want to add hurdles or requirements. We do want the scout to succeed and be aware of some of the major items they really haven't thought through yet.
  14. Buggie

    Remembrances of Cub Scouts

    Link to video This is someone's remembrance of his time in Cubs. I found it entertaining. With a point of what sells the program: camping.
  15. Buggie

    Trappers Rendezvous 2019

    As Eagledad stated, it's not a real BSA event, even though it is a BSA event. Not youth run at all. The thing I hear the most from the scouts when they return are their stories about trading. In the PDF mentioned above, they want to get beyond the "garage sale" type of trading, but that's what happened most often when my son went. The "Trappers" are reenactment type folks showing various skills, and in some cases, letting the scouts try it out themselves. The big thing the "Trappers" teach is how to trade, and it all involves tall tales. Which is where the real fun is. Scouts learn to come up with big stories for the smallest items. My son used to take two items with him to start his trading, but he later started his trading by buying a $6 hatchet they sell in the shop there. He'd then stand close to that shop and offer it up for trade, spinning a tall tale about it (had it for years, fought off a bear, defeated a gaggle of Webelos...). He's start trading up from there. As he got older, typically he'd get involved in a large trading type of Rube Goldberg line. Adam has the item A he wants, but he wants Item B. Bob has B, but wants C. Chuck has C but wants D. Doug needs help finding E, but doesn't want to trade, but if you can arrange a trade for him for Item E he'll give you D. He's gotten up to around 11 folks involved where he finally gets someone to want what he has (item K) who then trades him item J and thus the trading network gets completed down the alphabet to where he comes away with the Item A he wanted. The last time he went he had a trading line about 15 deep when it fell apart and he didn't get what he really wanted. He had a great time doing all that though. Sometimes he comes away with something he really wanted (old gameboy, gameboy games etc). Other times just something he thought was cool (small skateboard, pocket knifes). Or something that he wasn't too cautious about. (Binoculars where one side doesn't work so well) All in all, he had a great time, met a lot of scouts from around the area, and stories to tell. Plus in his early days he'd come home with a sack of wooden nickels. Thankfully he stopped bringing those home. We've another event in February for all the shooting/archery sports, Top Shot, which is pretty popular as well.