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I think the real issue is two fold: The SM doesn't care what parents think. He could be a pompous windbag, or he could see a threat that others don't. Likely there's a little of both. Parents who are concerned along with @Scoutmomonly want a national policy to use against an SM. There isn't one. And personally, I find that asking for one violates my rule #1: Don't ask for a rule, you'll live to regret it.

I have one son who just graduated high school and another going into 9th grade. We have had many school (grade level), band & church outings over the years. We have never had the adults open any luggage or pack to inspect for any contraband items. I don't know of any times that there have been unannounced searches without the owner of the bag (at minimum the student) being present. And even in those very limited situations where a bag has been searched, it was a limited scope to include the bags of a very small group. In one case, 4 students were staying together in a room. One stude

Because Scouting is a youth development organization. The often repeated phrase is "Scouting is a game with a purpose." The game is outdoor adventure. The purpose is youth development. Four of the eight methods of Scouting are: Ideals Adult Association Personal Growth Leadership Development Ideals - A scout is trustworthy. if a Scout is trustworthy, then why the do we need searches? Is a leader is courteous - shouldn't he respect the personal belongings of another and not search them without notice? Adult Association - Adult leaders, how they conduct the

I disagree. Scout leaders may have the right to search, but actually doing it is something reserved for the rare occasion and with the scout present. Searching all the scout's stuff without them there because of what the leader saw with one or two scouts is just wrong. If I heard that before my sons joined the troop, I'd look to another troop. It's a flag that the scout leaders and the scouts have an adversarial relationship and don't trust each other. It's just not the scout model we want.

That may very well work for you, but to my Libertarian views it smacks of building irrational fear to justify encroaching on personal liberties. "Don't worry, we'll keep you safe from them; all you have to give up is just a few of your Rights."

For what its worth in this declining age: “Trust should be the basis for all our moral training.” BP

I'm not so sure we disagree. I, like you, would argue that the Scout needs to be present for that search. Further, I don't have much use for these kind of searches, but if a leader thinks it needs to happen, then they can have a search. Others here think a search of the Scout's belongings without the Scout present is fine. I, again like you, disagree with that position.

False equivalence. Rights of homeowner and parent are a bit more permissive than that of a Scoutmaster. The Scoutmaster's actions were inappropriate. He should never go through anybody's belongings by himself or without the owner present. Period. Nothing he was doing solved an immediate threat to safety. If he had concerns, he could have waited until the owners returned, gave them a chance to turn over any "contraband", then if still necessary conducted the search inspection under witness of a second adult and the property owner. I would think in this era that adults have learned;

The joy of Scoutmastership. You take a bunch of other people's kids into the woods for the experience. You are directly responsible for their well-being and safety. There are hundreds of written pages of contradictory policy and procedures. You know that if, God forbid, something goes wrong, your competence, character, and commitment to the kids will be publicly questioned and if it's bad enough you'll be named in the law suit. But, if you take any action you believe required related to the kids well-being and safety, people come out of the woodwork because you violated the kids trust or h

I guess that is a class B uniform (winter?).

Not in my opinion. I was flabbergasted to read that in other parts of the country, kids' luggage is regularly searched. I agree it's the right of the school/organization to do so, I just don't think it sends a good message to the kids, and yes, it is a sign of a very authoritarian government/organization, IMHO.

Even if the REI one rips you could always call them and they’ll ship you a replacement free of charge

If that is suppose to be the case, why is there no Lion pin? Further, why do they automatically become the next level on June 1, but earn the old rank pin?

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Right, that was not my intent. Someone made the comment earlier that boards of review are not pass / fail, but they are. The board members must vote unanimously to approve a rank - it isn't automatic based on the Scout's participation. Sorry, I was trying not to take the thread off on a tangent.

Hmmm. That makes me lie awake at night wondering, how are we, as scoutmasters, supposed to determine whether the dyslexic scout is fullfilling his Duty to Dog? It's a Ruff question!

While I have your attention, I am reminded of the agnostic, dyslexic insomniac. Poor man lay awake all night wondering if there is a dog....

If a Scout claims to be agnostic - and I have had that conversation, the basic definition I fall back on is a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena; a person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God My view was the Scout was in fact developing his beliefs. He was trying to define. He did not claim there was no God, just he was not really sure. We spoke on beliefs and that true, you likely could not prove the existence of God. This particular Scouts issue was more with organized religion

Does he understand what agnostic means? "A person who claims neither faith nor disbelief in God". I agree, at this age and experience of life, living the "Do a good turn daily" is a good approach. I caution though, these things can become complicated when a scout is close to Eagle. This usually becomes an issue when the adults have let the question pass without clarity of expectation for the requirement. You may not be the SM and he may be in a different troop when he is ready for his Life or Eagle SM Conference. I would not make a big deal of it now, in fact I wouldn't approach

Agnostic is not the same thing as atheist. And while there is a requirement to be faithful in religious duties, BSA does not define those duties. I would say that the goal in this situation would be to help this agnostic scout discover ways in which they can perform (I will use a different word), spiritual duties. "Religious" implies a set of organized dogma and I really don't think such is in keeping with the intent. A parable: God and the devil were walking down a path one day when God spotted something sparkling by the side of the path. He picked it up and held it in the palm

That is great for you as a Lutheran. But that isn’t how all religions define Duty to God. Unitarians, Buddhists, Quakers, and many others don’t always adhere to a “supreme supernatural being” view of God and that spiritual duty may take on other forms. See: https://www.uua.org/children/scouting/memorandum-understanding The Scoutmaster Conference and the unit Board is Review are not pass/fail. I would have also signed off, but counciled the youth that if he or she ever makes it to an Eagle board of review it would be prudent to have a better answer explaining how the youth’s b

The problem is breathing, sometimes the sweat can be worse than the rain. Cheap jackets tend not to breath, but I think Frogg Togg breaths pretty well. Even motorcyclist like them, which is a pretty good endorsement. I've not purchased Frogg Togg because they don't have a good reputation for durability. But durability has a cost. I personally use Eddie Bauer because they have different weights of breathable jackets and are more durable, but I they cost more. Barry

Basically, if you cannot find a reference to it in the Guide to Awards and Insignia, probably should not be worn with the uniform. When it comes to uniforming, Scouts tend to do as they see; if all of the Scouters in a unit are properly uniformed, the Scouts will likely be properly uniformed. By the same token, if all of the Scouters wear only the shirt, and have insignia in the wrong places, the Scouts will follow suit.

You are correct in that adults search bags when leaving on school trips without the student present. However, this is made explicitly clear to the student and parents when going over the trip expectations. The expectations are clear, in writing, shared via meeting, email and strong consistency over the years. That’s why it is a well accepted policy. However, when there is a change the expectations AND you don’t adequately teach it, it is not right to then play “gotcha” and make it the kids problem. It is your fault for not making the change clear. You model stronger leadership and build a

As @RememberSchiff stated, there was the pistol a Scout brought to camp. I've personally dealt with cigarettes/cigars, alcohol, and pornography. And yes the Scouts can get creative hiding it. The one with alcohol had it in a Scope bottle. Got the idea off a movie he saw. And one of the incidents with porn had had the Scout taping it to his leg and covered with his knee sock. We didn't catch the "Scope" until he was tipsy one nite. We caught the leg guy during a shake down of the gear. The sock was coming down, and he was making sure it stayed up,but the other leg he was not concerned about.

I don't know. Im hearin the argument on the bag search is we should build trust with scouts. But, the argument in the tent rule is we can't trust the 17 year old scout weve known for 6 years not to abuse a younger scout. The tent rule eliminates the possibility of an older scout acting as mentor and big brother to a younger scout.

I see this is an old topic but it has helped me so I will respond to future noobs. I was appointed as Committee Member Feb 2019. I just bought my uniform today. June 2019. Why the delay. I had to see what my responsibilities were before I decided to what level I could commit. If I had been told I needed to buy a uniform be an active leader up front I would have said no. Some committee members are parents that want to support thier children's scouting ambitions and decudectovtake on additional responsibilities to support the troop. Fantastic for them! The troop needs them and appreciat

I think everyone (well just about everyone) agrees that a search is fine. The issue is whether a Scoutmaster should go through a Scouts belongings without telling the Scout first and having him/her present.

I don't think so. One of the reasons we do routine locker inspections at school is so students cannot claim that they have an expectation of privacy. This way, if and when a serious concern arises, the students cannot challenge a search. They have no expectation of privacy. We are not saying, "We don't trust you." We are saying, "We do not want to establish an expectation of privacy." It is exactly the same with overnight trips (including scouts, sports, and band). We do not want to have any policy, practice, or procedure that would legally establish an expectation of privacy.

David CO I said half of the involved families. Not half the unit. I agree there is a unit issue. I have tried repeatedly to address this. The conversation is one sided. You can’t solve an issue when only one side sees an issue. The items found have not been prohibited/regulated in the previous four years these scouts attended this camp. Nor was their current status well communicated. Look, I’m all for following the rules and expectations. I’m a teacher. I also co-led this troop at this particular summer camp outing two years ago. I was unable to due to surgery last year. I get the

This sounds like a very good way to handle this. Have an inspection with the Scoutmaster & parents present prior to leaving for Summer Camp. The notion of a Scoutmaster privately going through a Scout's belongings seems like is destroys the whole idea of what we're trying to achieve in Scouting. It seems to undermine the adult association, personal growth, and leadershi skills methods. This should get escalated to the CC, Troop Committee, and COR. In my humble opinion - it's time for someone to have a heart to heart with the Scoutmaster.

David CO Sorry, I would have no problem with the boys presenting themselves for inspection. I have a problem with the fact that this was done behind their backs.

Referring back to the original posting topic, it was about whether going through a tote without the owner's presence is acceptable. To be blunt...no. I wonder how that leader would react if scouts went through his gear while he was away. I bet he would go crazy. If there was an immediate risk to life, limb, or eyesight, maybe it would be ok only to eliminate the risk. Even then, not doing in solo or without owners present is wrong. In my 30 plus years in law enforcement, searches were always an issue. With the owner present can save a lot of time when you tell them what you are looking

Actually nope. I had to look that one up. Venture Officers Association Let's not forget SWAG SNAFU PDQ

I think it was from a recommendation on this forum that I took my troop to a patrol cooking summer camp. I was impressed with the results. Cooking for a whole week helps the scouts get in a groove. It really did help teamwork. They did like the food better as well. And yet, my troop doesn't do patrol cooking at summer camp anymore. I think the biggest problem was the lack of support from the camps we went to. There was a stretch of 6 or 7 years where we tried every other year and it was always a disaster because the camps didn't understand what the patrols needed. Honestly, what do you do when

A few years back I had a chance to talk to one my 13yo scouts about switching from Patrol Method cooking to dining hall and here was his replay - No way should we switch! Patrol Method cooking for a whole week teaches accountibilty and team work way better than a weekend camp out. - Why? - Because when we do a weekend campout someone in charge of cleanig a pot on a Saturday can easily just shove that pot into the patrol box and no one will know who didnt clean when it comes out of the box the following month. When we have a full week to do cooking everyone knows who is pulling t

Scout #1. Tell her to not think of it as "telling" so much as asking firmly. In fact here's an approach that I found worked for some scouts: For scout stuff, get into the habit of addressing each member of your patrol formally, with titles. E.g. Mister/Miss Surname. Each "command" begins with "Please" and ends with "Thank You". E.g., "Please get the fire started while Miss is getting our supplies. Thank you." In other words, she needs a culturally appropriate language that frees her from worrying about things like pushing her friends around. Make clear that you expect t

I was a teacher in the 80's. I am less concerned about how these "trust" issues are changing the relationships between the Scoutmaster and the Scouts than I am with how they are changing the relationships between Scouts and other Scouts. This new tenting policy has me bewildered. A Scout is Trustworthy, but you can't sleep in the same tent together.