Jump to content


  • Content count

  • Joined

  • Last visited

  • Days Won


TAHAWK last won the day on December 10 2017

TAHAWK had the most liked content!

Community Reputation

838 Excellent


  • Rank
    Senior Member

Profile Information

  • Gender
    Not Telling
  • Location
  • Occupation
  • Interests
    Scouting, History, Out-of-doors, Family
  1. Patrol Method/System Resources

    AIDS to SCOUTMASTERSHIP - original 1920 pamphlet. Can use zoom to easily read it even with my old eyes. Can be printed. https://issuu.com/scoutingireland/docs/aidstoscoutmaster "SCOUTING IS A GAME for boys, under the leadership of boys, in which elder brothers can give their younger brothers healthy environment and encourage them to healthy activities such as will help them to develop CITIZENSHIP [emphasis in original].”
  2. "Here, then, is Scouting in a nutshell: A game for boys under the leadership of boys with the wise guidance and counsel of a grown-up who has still the enthusiasm of youth in him. A purposeful game, but a game just the same, a game that develops character by practice, that trains for citizenship--through experience in the out-of-doors [emphasis in the original]." William Hillcourt, Handbook for Scoutmasters, 3rd Ed (1936)[two volumes] This was Bill's evocation of B-P's statement in Aids to Scoutmastership (1945 ed): "SCOUTING IS A GAME for boys, under the leadership of boys, in which elder brothers can give their younger brothers healthy environment and encourage them to healthy activities such as will help them to develop CITIZENSHIP [emphasis in the original]." These wise words have been edited by BSA into: "“Scouting is a game for boys under the leadership of boys under the direction of a man.” And from this, much flows. We could still try Boy Scouting.
  3. Our Venturers on staff in 2008, 2009, and 2017 absolutely stunned the participants. We didn't have to raise a finger. The best lesson they ever saw about the youth leadership aspect of the Patrol Method.
  4. The typical Scouter is put off by being taught by Scouts. BSA appropriately added junior staff to Wood Badge, an experiment tried in 1959. See it; believe it.
  5. Don' hasta' be live music.
  6. 1. Scoutcraft through First Class - eight continuous, full days. 2. 1 Leadership Skills in the context of outdoor program, with learners tenting out over eight, continuous full days. (Modified to "weekend" course of six days 3. More abstract leadership course with five minutes of Scoutcraft (how to light a backpacking stove), often by staff who don't know how to light the stove. 5 days. "Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature." B.S.A., Guide to Safe Scouting (2018) at p. 47.
  7. Every Scout deserves his moment in the sun - alone. It may be brief, but it's not a cattle call. Efficiency is not a goal when we are doing recognition. Mom and Dad should be able, at a minimum, to snap a picture or two. Yes? Limit the time for announcements. Enforce the time limits, politely, to be sure. Music? . Suggest handouts; you can cite the need to be sure everyone gets the dates/times/details accurately. Slides sounds great!. Either handout or slides forces them to think about their message in advance vs. rambling on.
  8. The is no process in place to "pull" Wood Badge staff "from those Scoutmasters that really understand the program." So it does nor happen. There should be.
  9. Boy-led is one aspects of the Patrol Method. It is not, in itself, a method, although some at BSA clearly do not get it. Hence: "Patrols are one component of what we call youth-run, or youth-led, troop." Scouting.org, "Orientation for New Scout Parents," by Clueless ["we"] (2018). With the time allocated these days, there is no time to get from abstract to concrete - barely time to read the abstractions.
  10. If the adult is only willing to commit half a day, he or she will not complete basic training as it includes many more (but not nearly enough) hours of IOLS. BSA is strongly encouraging doing the training as a single, combined S24/S11 course, which is more interesting that the 'school learning" done alone. But if it were an interactive discussion, led by competent people, it need not be boring. Given the time, the topics cannot be covered that way. So necessarily boring. So less time = more boring. The right questions and hints usually get the answers from someone in the class. I have staffed many courses where the trainees elected to remain after official closing time to further discuss - sometimes for hours. That is my standard as a course director for whether we have succeeded. If training is boring, cut training. If meals are boring, cut meals? Imagine better meals instead. 1/3 of all Wood Badge staff are primarily selected by BSA decree based on a factor other than competence; namely, total lack of experience staffing Wood Badge. Course Directors, who should be highly competent, are not allowed to ever hold a significant staff position again, unless that has changed recently. Just nuts. Have a question about internal inconsistency or vagaries in the syllabus? Not allowed to have such questions. Regarded as poor form. Holy writ may not be questioned, even if they wouldn't understand Tuckman's conclusions if they hit them between the eyes. ("I am told these four steps always occur and always in a given order. Tuckman [laughing gently]: "You must be with Scouting.") Suggestions for change? Go away. .
  11. Age requirement guidelines

    Absolutely correct. The Course Directors around here kept assigning it as a session (mainly to me ) until last Spring. Then the last holdout, in what is now Great Train Council, gave up. Lake Erie Council had stopped in 2013. Silly volunteers thinking safety is important. No one can say the BSA materials and time allocated are inadequate now, but I would rather defend adequacy in court than totally ignoring the topic.
  12. Dynamic patrols and the patrol method

    Compare: "A patrol is a group of friends" Boy Scouting.
  13. Really, Colonel? An interative diuscussion on the Patrol Method + cover the syllabus in 35 minutes? All woods tools and each trainee applying the skills, all in, efffectively, fifty minutes? Woods Badge, when I first was "junior staff," was T-F Scoutcraft in eight continuous16hr+ days. Now we have twenty-two hours if we are lucky. Eighteen hours at summer camp version. As for the rest. +100 A
  14. Thank you for your service. I too have some experience with Scoutmaster training and Wood Badge, both starting in 1959. Start with this: understanding the Patrol Method is not even a learning objective of Scoutmaster basic training per the current syllabus. It should be THE objective. To avoid a wall of text comparing BSA training syllabus contents to more authoritative BSA statements on the Patrol Method over the years and today, please consider this: for fourteen years, until late Summer 2014, the section of the Scoutmaster Specific syllabus entitled "Working with Youth, the Patrol Method" lacked a single sentence correctly describing the Patrol Method. In fact, the word "patrol," appeared exactly once. Staff, then sworn to present the message BSA "intends," might have compensated. I surely did. (I am always happy to learn more if you could cite language to the contrary.) Now, we are sworn as trainers to "use" the syllabus. ("For what," one asks. )The current syllabus, sadly, is only fractionally better than what it replaced because it reinforces the incorrect idea that the troop is where everything of worth happens. The syllabus does say, "Scouting happens in the context of a patrol,” then contradicts that defining concept in almost everything else it says. Just look at the model troop meeting plan - a few minutes for a patrol "business" meeting and the vast bulk of time "troop," "troop," "troop." Even Scoutcraft instruction is shown on the troop level. Compare that to these words: "[The patrol is] the place where boys learn skills together, take on leadership responsibilities, perhaps for the first time . . . . ” B.S.A. Scouting.org., (2018) “Patrols will sometimes join with other patrols to learn skills and complete advancement requirements.” B.S.A., Scouting.org (2018)[emphasis added] Does the syllabus even mention that Scouts, not adults, are to be the primary Scoutcraft teachers? No. And where is the training on planning patrol program, where "scouting happens"? ZIp. Nada. Zero.v Troop, troop, troop. The present syllabus falls FAR short of coherently presenting a correct view of BSA's statements since 1929 and to this date to the effect that Boy Scouting is patrol scouting, not troop Scouting. "A patrol is that small group of boys and friends under their own leadership who plan and carry out troop and patrol meetings and activities. It is the basic organizational unit of a Scout troop. Boy Scouts of America, Scoutmaster Handbook, 1998 ed., 2010 printing, Chapter 4, "The Boy-Led Patrol" "Unless the patrol method is in operation, you don’t really have a Boy Scout troop.” Scoutingmagazine.org (citing Baden-Powell) (September, 2015 and still posted today - this very minute) https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2014/09/05/patrol-method/ The legend is that Coach Vince Lombardi began every training season with, "Gentlemen, this is a football." Gentlemen, this is Boy Scouting. Yogi Berra on why SMs need to know what the Patrol Method is: "You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you are going, because you might not get there." NOTE: site is supplying it's own underlining. Thanks, I guess.
  15. Age requirement guidelines

    Well, it is officially all on us.