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fred8033 last won the day on March 22

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About fred8033

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    Fred Johnson 2

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  1. Only using BOLD to reflect key points for those who SKIM. Agreed. That will be the plantiff's argument. I'm betting the defense would respond ... that "BSA KNEW" but believed they were managing the same issues other organizations that served youth. Schools, YMCAs, churches, youth ministries, etc. The BSA KNEW can be offset by the standard of care of the time. ... So, did they view themselves as dealing uniquely with evil ugliness that many organizations didn't have. If viewing themselves like many other organizations, than the IVF becomes a higher level of care than o
  2. ... only providing BOLD to show my main points ... not raising my voice ... I often skim documents looking for key points ... it helps ... when something peaks my interest, I'll read the surrounding material ... I'm familiar that we have several lawyers posting in this thread. I'm not a lawyer but I am posting as it doesn't seem we are getting valid legal advice representing BSA's best interest. Yes ... we want ... how much and when .... but there is no such thing ... there is no fixed price tag or fixed date. ... depending how motions, arguments, cases, negotations, tr
  3. 64. In an effort to streamline the Restricted Property Action, the TCC has made repeated requests that the Boy Scouts inform it whether it intends to offer evidence at trial to meet its double burdens of proof or if it intends to attempt to convince the Court that Judge Sontchi’s opinions should not be followed. If the former, the TCC has requested the prompt production of the evidence that the Boy Scouts will rely on at trial to meet its burdens of proof. If the latter, the matter may be disposed of by summary judgment. To date, the Boy Scouts has refused to do either. I'm a We
  4. Your points reflect a desire for a one sided presentation which denies the reality of the current day. Your points simply silence opposite views. It's hypocritical to continue to bash BSA and it's leaders yet complain about protests against the $1500 per hour legal fees. Yes. The present and the future will not be better because of this bankruptcy. Most of these threads just re-hash the same arguements without much enlightenment on the actual bankruptcy.
  5. Welcome to the reality of the legal game. It's how it works.
  6. Your words are well written ... until I see "BSA will never do that..." ... this is where we disagree. Statements like that are explicitly factually wrong. BSA has acknowledged and agreed that a debt is owed for wrongs. They have said that for years now. Absolutely acknowledge that the sharing of abuse statements from the past is helpful. That's good to hear. Just don't compound a useful statement with yet another accusation that damages the information exchange in this forum.
  7. Don't insensitively infer we are not aware of the ugliness of evil. Don't insensitively infer we are cold or dare us to read. We've read. We're aware. Many of us have opinions that these evils succeeded in an era of ignorance by all of society with many, many, many groups sharing fault. We're not saying it's good or acceptable. Evil has always existed and it's always been ugly. This is a forum for discussion. It can be done without slandering others. I really do suggest you lock these threads. It helps no one.
  8. Hmmm ... I trust you are refering to something like this ... See FS-601 Food Standards https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/2019-National-NCAP-Standards.pdf It's obviously a good idea. It's a good tool also to use for self reflection on your menus. BUT, does it explicitly apply as a strict rule to a OA conclave? When I read page 6 of the above link, I read think of camps that are run by paid staff and are marketed and advertised as such. I think of $1200 Sea Base, $1200 Philmont, $300+ council week long summer camps, $100+ webelos summer camps, council
  9. The only reason I suggest a camps with regular volunteer led activities open to both scout patrols and lone scouts (aka family scouting) is that times have changes. Many parents won't back away from their kids and recognize kids need to solve their own issues. So the question then becomes, is there a way we can show value to those scouts where the parents won't back away from their kids? Maybe the camp master could setup a time where the camp master would be willing to observe and sign-off on seeing a youth setup a tent and understand what is needed. Maybe, another youth could cook d
  10. As scouts should have boating, shooting sports, hikes, etc... camps should promote a long list of prefered adult activities ... read a book, take a nap, clean your car, perform a camp service project like paint a building, etc. Effectively all activities that keep them far more than arms length away from the scouts.
  11. You should lock all these threads. The bankruptcy is just bringing out the worst in everyone and just breading anger. Block all commentaries and only allow posting ofew newspaper articles. Heck, even then I'm sure both sides can find supportive newspaper articles.
  12. I never saw the IVF file on your unit. So, I can only speak in generalities. But it's awareness is very much different than approval or support. Often SEs can't do anything until incidents happen. And the incidents are relative to the times. Drinking and porn were not automatic ejections back then and definitely don't have the same legal consequences as now. My point is BSA had at any time a million leaders (volunteer and paid). The huge vast majority were righteous upstanding people. I'm not willing to brand BSA or all the good it did based on the interpretation of select incid
  13. That's been happening for many years. The latest round after sharing with 80,000+ claimants will get pennies compared to some of the earlier lawsuits. So it can be. Business partners have a right to opt in and out depending on their situation. It's how legal rights work.
  14. If the right laws were in place ... if the right education and training was in place ... there was no way this should have been dropped once the police report happened. You say I'm dumping BSA liability. I'd say you are misbranding BSA as a self-interested evil doer. BSA was filled with millions and millions of volunteer and paid professions who were 100% focused on doing right by the youth. When things fell below the line, it was the aberration and not the norm. The situation sounds exactly like a product of the times. But you are right in one way. I do view the IVF as an ef
  15. I did not want details. I was just curious how far the police went. Interviews? a real report being filed? Anyone arrested? etc, etc. If police were pulled in, the police are working with the victims and it's outside scouting control. I'm betting it was dropped for the same many reasons many cases were dropped. Not taking it seriously enough. Right criminal laws not yet in place. People not understanding nature of abuse. People satisfied by the person quitting. People not wanting their family in the center of attention and being labeled victims. etc, etc. ... Once police we
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