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Everything posted by skeptic

  1. Okay. According to the book, Lone Scout; W.D. Boyce and American Scouting, by Janice A. Petterchak, Boyce was in London on business and preparing for an African trip when the incident occurred. Here is the pertinent page from the book.
  2. Actually, someplace in the 90's I think, it was reproduced in the museum store in Dallas, including a replica of the old square necker. I have that in my stuff I think, as well as the original. It very well may be on one of the discs available on the net of older material. I keep talking about going to a yardage store and getting some good, but inexpensive material from the discount gable and cutting them into full square size. Maybe I could get the church quilters to hem them. Then, get some simple wood blocks and challenge the scouts carve a slide as well, or teach them to make
  3. Reading some of this, I was reminded of local experience. Over my tenure with our unit, the past 40+, we have had likely a dozen non parental or unknown adults try to join. We have always made sure they were not interacting directly with kids while "visiting", and as soon as possible they were interviewed by other established leaders. IF they balked in any way at the references, or now the required background checks and so on, they were politely told they were not welcome. None of them reappeared, though one did make it into another unit but was almost immediately "dropped" and added to th
  4. For the most part, this subject was hushed and Not discussed, and authorities also chose to not believe or make excuses because so and so was a good guy, as most knew. Parents often chose to not press the issue due to the embarrassment and community tendency to call it he said, he said or it is a kid making things up. It was not right, but that was the world most of us live in. Now, when it did actually get beyond the disbelief and was taken seriously, the laws were not yet particularly strong, and reinforced to some extent the idea of not believing. Again, unless their was absolute proof,
  5. We need to clarify that there are now two groups of Methodists, and they are not in agreement. However, the traditional support of Scouting, the Methodist Mens' group, still supports the program. Please be aware of this. See this FB group. https://www.facebook.com/MethodistScouting/photos/a.128216575250845/582219489850549
  6. And there lies the rub. Any suggestion that there might be some lack of accuity over time is somehow blaming the victim. We saw that in the deplorable side show in the Kavanaugh hearings. I am not yet senile enough to not continue to see the probability of some enhancements over time of traumatic and also amusing incidents in life. So, let me go back to being a skeptical realist, trying to see through the glass clearly when the prism is clouded. Nuf said.
  7. No, we should not be going back there, we should be trying to determine the truth. As noted, the way the article is written, it is almost impossible to see it as not exaggerated at least. HOW could someone be repeatedly abused and subjected to being put in a shallow grave and urinated upon by the group without any of it coming out? Something happened to traumatize him, but the level of depravity, while possible, seems almost beyond the pale. Maybe I am simply too much of a skeptic, and have seen too many stories that have been "stretched" for whatever reason, to not see some doubt in this
  8. Sorry, but the level of depravity partially shared here approached the same tenor that took over the McMartin episode. And, what is not determined is IF the victim ever did report anything. He claims it was at the hands of the leader and his son, yet are there others from the period that reported anything? And, if the terrible series of attacks and the trauma that resulted was not actually brought to the attention of anyone, what exactly should have resulted? We are surely not seeing the whole picture, and again, the media is taking the "story" as gospel and not even attempting to view it
  9. I am confused as to how Mr. Kosnoff can be posting as a legal individual if he is no longer a lawyer, as was, I believe was posted on this forum. He can I guess call himself whatever he chooses, but is he more technically posing as an officer of the court in some capacity, without a legal right? Just asking.
  10. Maybe it has a lot to do with the actual scouting that is the norm, not the deviant outliers. Scouts do public patriotic ceremonies in many places; Scouts contribute thousands of hours of community service outside of the Eagle projects; Scouts are often called upon by the wider community for assistance in special events; Scouts and Scouting in 99+% of community visibility is a positive and worthwhile example. Maybe there are more people that understand the the anomalous hyper scandal is NOT the norm for the larger group, and understand that it is far more beneficial to their communities than
  11. All I am asking is that they go beyond the witch hunt with BSA and take other bites of the elephant. Expand the focus to include other agencies and publicly drag them into view. I realize this discussion is on the BSA, but the point is that it should not simply be on BSA, but should be clearly reaching far beyond them, as it is not JUST a BSA issue, but a real societal issue that dwarfs the localized drama. And, with that, I bow out again, for a bit, at least.
  12. Cute; but it really dodges the question. The issue with BSA is far larger than just the BSA. It is a massive problem in most youth serving groups, and even more so in the governmental oversight agencies. That is to what I refer.
  13. " I do also like the idea of widespread AG investigations. They are overdue and appropriate." Would that apply beyond the BSA? If not, then it is simply ignoring the elephant in the room, IMHO.
  14. Simply ANY acknowledgement that this whole witch hunt pales in comparison to the issues in our Government agencies and connected support groups who "supposedly" are paid to protect children. I am simply looking to see actual balance in responses to these tragedies. But, it seems to me, a novice, that few will make the effort to "fix" these shortcomings in Government agencies. Why? Lawyers do not feel they can win? It is cheaper to attack non-governmental groups? The Government and related groups have the aura of being official, so they cannot be held to the grindstone? I do not know. B
  15. While surely most reading this thread would agree that any abuse is too much abuse, we still cannot completely stop it, as it is and always has been a negative side of some human personalities. As noted above, and many times in this tragedy, perfection in defending is not possible. Let's perhaps have some of the better stat finders do some serious comparisons to the National Child Protective Services in this regard. Even a cursory Google search will turn up some truly scary stats. But, because it is part of the Government, it is not held to the same rabid public shame and calls for rec
  16. Here again, from Troop 111 in Ventura, California is an apex of Scouting. Thanks to Craig Carey, ASM and his dedicated parents, and thoroughly enthusiastic Scouts. Locally, Scouting is showing its best face, and other units are sharing at times. This is what dedicated leaders can make happen with patience and imagination. And it is not just the trail work, exceptional at any level for novices, but also many other areas of service in our area. Take a look. Many of you reading this might find it a possible option for your own area with a little searching. https://issuu.com/ojaivisitorsgui
  17. I came back last Saturday from our camp. All staff had to be vaccinated. All adult leaders had to be vaccinated. Eligible youth were asked to be vaccinated. We had to have proof of the vaccination as part of the paperwork. Precamp troop checks were done with a BSA designed check list. On the day we left, we again went through the checklist and had temps taken. On arrival, we were interviewed and had temps taken. At every meal we had to sanitize in front of a staff person and have temp taken. All group activity required masks, and they enforced it firmly, but nicely, even with th
  18. Just the old guy response. I have a number of Mentor pins on the pocket flap of my primary uniform under the knots. Why? Because young person honored me with them, and I seems right to wear them. I know one local that for whatever reason has a dozen or more. He has a pocket device he made to hang from the right pocket nd keeps them on there. Most are only worn at formal troop events, though my pins simply stay there except when the shirt goes to be cleaned.. Uniform police can be ignored. It is your decision, and if they have purpose, or mean something, that is the only thing that mat
  19. It happened decades ago now in the old Great Western Council. A COR got miffed and spent a great amount of time gathering other COR's to attend in force. They summarily booted the Executive and his assistant. But it took him a long time to gather the troops, so to speak, and the mess had been brewing for a while. I would need to check the state laws regarding banning voting members from the inner sanctum, so to speak. Not sure that is legal, though it may be as long as a decision requiring a vote is not made without all voting members notified. It is also mostly true that the CO seldom s
  20. Here is the applicable wording from the BSA directly. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/511-421(16)_WEB.pdf Note this specific statement: "In territory supervised by local councils, each chartered organization shall appoint a volunteer, other than the unit leader or assistant unit leader, as its chartered organization representative to represent it as a member of the district committee and as a voting member of the local council.” The following official description of a chartered organization representative is found in the Rules and Regulations of the Boy Sc
  21. I would hope not, but much depends on the next few months. There was a schism in the church recently, and there likely is also a difference in those views more locally. Our own congregation and pastors are strongly behind us, but they are still tied to the Conference decisions. Hopefully that will be easier by year end. Almost all the troops over 40 years old in our council are Methodists, and ours is 100 in December. The big thing is to NOT be chicken little every time someone says something that may suggest a change in view. At least in my experience, more rational voices rise to the t
  22. For some direct and less paranoiac info from the main Methodist group. https://www.facebook.com/MethodistScouting/posts/576502677088897?notif_id=1626798180694932&notif_t=page_followed_contents_awareness&ref=notif I spoke with our local minister yesterday, and we are in So Cal, the heart of the liberal church, and she assured me that Methodists in most of the country are not pushing to throw us out. But, she also said that there is a smaller segment, mostly in what we might call Red states, that make that noise. Anyway, read the link above.
  23. This is old news, though glad to see it is progressing. Please try to keep the time frames clear, as I thought while I was at camp I missed something tragic again. Thanks.
  24. You do realize that the COR has had the right to sit on the Executive board for decades do you not? Just because few do, it has been in place a long time and on rare occasion has resulted in dismissal of a Council executive and major changes. But, since few ever pay any attention, too many boards run amuck with power people who want recognition or to do things "their way" and to "their" benefit. Going clear back to the original Dale quagmire, IF this had been done, it would have been left in the lap of the CO to make the decision. But, somehow, those erudite "forward thinkers" decide
  25. There is nothing obvious on the net regarding this, and with the media attitude towards BSA, that is surprising to say the least. Perhaps this can be actually verified?
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