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skeptic

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skeptic last won the day on March 4

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About skeptic

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    Senior Member

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  • Gender
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  • Location
    Southern California
  • Occupation
    Retired; Past substitute teacher. 25 years in retail management.
  • Interests
    Poetry, reading, Scouting history and memorabilia.
  • Biography
    Scout and Explorer: 1955-1962; Eagle<br /><br />
    Scouter: ASM 1966-67; Member at Large, NESA rep 1976; Unit Commissioner 1977; SM 1977-Present; RT staff off and on 1979-Present; Jamborees: Scout, 1960; ASM, 1985; Staff, 2010. Miscellaneous participation in training and so on since 1979; Woodbadge with 3 beads, including both old and new course material. <br /><br />
    Scouting Historian of Sorts; one of the larger accumulations of literature and related ephemera in So Cal focused on history and sociology of the program, as well as unusual connections such as comics and advertising. Mount 2-3 displays per year for council and/or district, and occasionally unit.<br /><br />
    OA; Ordeal 1959 at Camp Arataba summer camp; Brotherhood 1960 building Helendade (then Running Springs SR); Vigil 1987 VCC.<br /><br />
    SB; Youth Religious 1961, Adult 1980's; Miscellaneous "being around a long time awards".<br /><br />
    <br /><br />
    BA 1971 UCR; Teaching Credential 1975 CSULB.

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  1. Showing my age again, and I REALIZE that we do not live in the fifties now, so just take note that I do understand there are different views today, though I do wonder if some may be overreach much of the time. Anyway, when most of my peers were kids this would have been settled by themselves and they would be friends again soon after. My dad brought a set of boxing gloves home for my brother and I, and on occasion, neighbor or two. At times, I wonder if there might be some in between place that would put the onus on the kids a bit more to simply figure it out. But, I realize, as noted, we live in a different world, and there were some really bad situations that happened back then as well, though most of us would have a fight, sometimes physical and emotional, and very soon be friends, or at least, accepting, with the other kid. Where to draw the line to not interfere is the question. But helicopter parents sometimes are flying military grade ones now. One more reason to find a way to get the foundation of Scouting back into play with the youth of today.
  2. No, I am suggesting that IF a claim is being brought against the BSA against a specific individual that "other" possible responsible entities might also be investigated to determine IF they did everything to make sure abuse did not happen, and it it might have, follow up both on the possibly incident and the addition of that entity into their broad brush lawsuit. We all know that the more checks and investigations of someone that occur, the more likely something might jump out. If we are going to beat the bushes, lets beat those on the periphery as well. Meanwhile, exercise due diligence against the lawyers who, if the postings here are accurate, have suspicious or non existent addresses for contacting them. That, in itself, might be grounds for a judgement of some sort, or so it might seem to a non legal individual. It just seems to reflect that they are shysters to me. Again, I am mostly spitting in the wind. The two main posters here seem to obviously not really care about leveling the playing field, or the survival of BSA. JMO of course. Since real logic and simple common sense appear to be in slight supply, I will go back to reading and shaking my head at the absurdity of most of this whole thing.
  3. Another question that has come to mind is are these "lawyers" investigating cases where the actual perpetrator is known? If so, did they go beyond their participation in BSA? Were they possibly employed by some kind of youth related group or agency? Did they also work with youth sports or the Y, or Boys and Girls club? If so, were there possible similar complaints there? Finally, it is odd, at least to me, that there are claims that are saying they do not remember who, or what unit, or where they met, and so on. IF it traumatized them from that long ago period, you would think they might remember some of the details, and not just that some "ambulance chasing legal group" suggests that they may make a vague claim with little or no need for documentation. Not suggesting there is no validity to some of the claimants, only that the openly vague option is just that, open and vague. But what would I know. I keep thinking that we should maybe look beyond the accusation and require at least a modicum of validation. And I also feel that the comparative stats related to other groups should be in play as far as the claims that nothing was done. We have already noted that nobody else kept records, or at least none of which we are aware. That in itself is more effort to root the worst out, than most.
  4. Meanwhile, back at the ranch: The perpetrators, the ones actually responsible are long gone for the most part. The local authorities and political or power brokers that protected the actual perpetrators are basically ignored, since they are either some civilly protected entity or are conveniently untraceable. Most of the claimants likely are not in the so called Perversion files, as they were shielded by those connected entities or their family's chose, at the time, to NOT put the claim into the public eye. And, if the claim is actually in the Ineligible Volunteer File, there are notes as to what was done outside the BSA that resulted in no charges or minor charges. After fifty plus years, most of it is really like the charges lodged against political people that date back decades. Yet we do not see them being held accountable. Why? Because there is power and money that is willing to sweep it away, and the lawyers do not see a pay day.
  5. This reminded me of my foolish young scout days. I was in a troop as an 11 or 12 years old and we were camped for a few days, summer of 1955 or maybe 56, in the mountains near Slide Lake which is in the Pomona area of So Cal. Anyway, two of us were hiking and we ran across deer tracks and started following them. I was wearing my proud acquisition from selling Christmas cards, a belt ax with sheath knife, and I had a hiking stick as did my buddy. We noticed the tracks were farther apart and wondered if we were close and scared it. Then we realized there was another set of tracks now, and they were not deer, but large cat imprints. That was when we decided tracking the deer was not a good idea. We took my hatchet and knife and put points on our hiking sticks and then we turned around and headed towards camp, constantly jumping at noises and peering into the scrub and mancinita. We never saw the cat or the deer, but when we turned around, the deer was obviously moving much faster, as were we in the opposite direction. Funny how I had almost forgotten that. As an adult, we were camped on the Sespe at Bear Creek. It was early summer or late spring, and we had not pitched tents. I got up the next morning and wandered away to water a tree, and on the way back into the site, I saw fresh tracks in the damp sand of the river bar just a few dozen feet from where we were sleeping. The tracks came within about ten feet of one scout, who was still asleep. When he woke up, he did not see the tracks, but when I pointed them out to him, the look was pretty funny. Wish I had had some plater, as the tracks were deep and fresh. Would have been great to capture them.
  6. Interesting comment. Harks back to the early days of Scouting and one of the requirements. What to do about a rabid dog? That was actually an issue in those days.
  7. Glad there is a video attached. Otherwise, I might have referred them to YP guiidelines.
  8. Reality is that Ms. Ireland likely met and surpassed most of the requirements in her other earlier Scouting involvements, and that she is qualified in spades. Most of the push back seems petty to me. As far as First, or leading the list, or whatever, it is really not important. What is important that we have pushed past another barrier that can do nothing but improve the reach of the program, and may even enhance it much more than many realize. Congratulations to them all, and perhaps special kudos to Ms. Ireland for sticking to her guns and helping to open the program to young women who so choose. Like prejudice, misogyny has no place in Scouting.
  9. We might add the possibility that society as a whole was equally responsible in that the responses to these things were completely different in that earlier period. So, once again, taking the sin/bad behavior out of its own period to be measured against a different view and response mechanism is blatantly unfair to most involved. And to remove the actual perpetrator from the picture, basically because they are dead or too senile to be held accountable to modern "standards (?)" seems even more unreasonable. As we have noted before, ours is almost the only country in which this would even be happening. I truly do not understand why these bottom feeders are even allowed inside a courtroom. It would help of course if the yellow press would change their stripe and tell the complete story, rather than just the most heinous and headline grabber. You would think that other groups, especially youth serving, would be doing all they could to aid the BSA, as it will move to them too soon enough, as the GS already have found; along with at least one youth study group in university research.
  10. I simply want to know if this is the original Beavah posting? If so, great to see you are still keeping the eye on things.
  11. (Comment) The fact that she thinks having earned Eagle Scout in 20 months means she's gotten everything possible out of the program does not say great things about her mindset with regards to participating in scouts. Though I'll admit this viewpoint isn't exactly uncommon. While I cannot vouch directly for this specific young woman, my overall observation to date on those in this "special category" of Eagle candidates almost all are from long established Scouting families with traditions that they often had to view from the outside. But many families in these situations simply let the female children participate as they could, without the official recognition. Many of those young women have shown themselves to be head and shoulders above the male candidates we see. These young women were already getting more from the program than many male youth. It will all shake out in time, just as most transitions tend to do. Then many will look back and make comments about why are today's young female scouts seemingly not as bright as the the earliest ones. When push and shove come into play, it is not really much different than our experience with previous youth. Some are highly motivated and balk at barriers, sometimes pushing us to our limits, but great Scouts. Others are not likely to advance far without the interference of adults that do not understand the intent of the program. IF most of them come out of it with a positive experiences and have a better grounding in the foundational tenets, then we have accomplished our goal. It has little to do with rank, but rather "Character".
  12. We can never have too many well placed and well constructed benches. When you get to my age, that will be more obvious.
  13. It works for me. But, here is the item again, I hope.
  14. https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=10105193357292214&set=gm.1708260512655110&__cft__[0]=AZVhjhg0Pp-4lPkTeWKdf_gCzK9L8mfYCUgri0vhKn1gVy8J0klAMKxR5vx220y2G8nZX0yZocJ3cHB2miJjiruPGl9E9tdufnFZ5tBVjFtP5ClYAWyaqytBpNGCQ1sXffLkY2WqYPmKK_sbfKfGQjycBXf_MPM81uHzUArUsojCtvEMiT7Q1TbuM0nMDXeb4JwPrE3Ox4tSl_qHi6_6B28k&__tn__=EH-R
  15. Yes, we were far more rural in the earlier days. I am hoping to find more now that I have added Newspaper.com to my list. They have actual Ventura papers, but not all the way back to 1910. It is that first couple of decades that is so sparse. I stumbled across the first apparent unit in 1910 just scanning through microfilm. Have yet to find anything more on that unit, other than the Congregational church minutes officially terminating the group in 1914. I suspect it was not overly active during that period, or it would have shown up a bit. No names of even the leaders. Good news is that I have been contacted by the local museum to start working with them, once they can let me in again. I just wish I could find a bit more help with the digging. Funny things pop up though;
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