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When I take groups on day hikes or backpacking, if their preparedness is unknown I start with some 'creampuffs' and then progress toward the real deal. I confess that I was greatly heartened a couple of years ago when I overheard one of the hikers on the phone to mom, "Mom, I just got my ass kicked by a 67-year-old heart patient". Right on! They did just fine after that.

I think "physically strong" is directly linked to "do your best." I'll re-share my favorite example of a scouter who was physically strong. I was a Tenderfoot. One of my SMs in AZ was a WWII vet. He lost a lung in battle (we learned this from his wife). Never talked about the circumstances. Never talked about his condition, or the war, ever. Never complained. Mr. P was elderly. He couldn't walk very fast. But he never missed an outing. Slept on the ground in a sleeping bag, in a canvas tent, every camp out. Even during those bone-chilling winter nights in the desert.

The requirements do not demand an open-water swim, though that's implied. The requirements do not demand a child use a certain stroke. The requirements also don't explicitly demand that the mile swim be continuous. So everything we see here, including doing the swim in stages, meets the letter of the requirements. So, yes, if a lap pool swim is okay with the aquatics counselor, then it's okay. Yes, there's a difference between swimming a mile in a pool versus swimming a mile in open water. But there is a far bigger difference between swimming a mile freestyle versus swimming a mile using

My opinion: this WAS a sexual assault and YP issue. I would at least cover your own behind and make a mandatory report to your Scout Executive. Let him/her advise you as to your response. The fact that it was not a sanctioned Scout activity may or may not be relevant. At a minimum, I would remove the SPL from office permanently. The SE may remove his membership.

Welcome to the forum @Bside. Sorry it has to be under such circumstances. I would not have the SPL talk in front of the troop. In fact, I'm not sure I'd start with a list of punishments. The real issue is whether the scouts understand they did something (many things) wrong and not just that they got caught. For any scout that just thinks he got caught I'd fire him. But I would give him a chance to figure that out. I'd start with sitting down with all the scouts that were there except for the one scout that took the brunt of the bad character. I'd start by reviewing exactly what happe

I agree 100%. The SPL was threatening to sexually assault the younger boy. I thought the 3 month suspension was too light, and I agree totally that another similar act should be dismissal. The rest of the PLC should be punished as well, as they either participated or didn't stop it.

As long as you're not using flippers or something like that, I can't see the type of suit disqualifying a scout. YPT rules say to wear a modest swimsuit, IIRC, so I don't wear the competition style one I use at the gym and go with boxer style. My competition style suit isn't bad, but I've seen guys wear ones at the gym that are so tight you can tell their religion.

@DadandGareth, welcome to the forums! And thanks for resurrecting a useful topic. No parent was around when went for my first (or any subsequent) mile swim. I will say that the absolute worst is laps in a square. My motivation? Forestalling death. That's what was pounded into me by my ARC instructor (a Women's Air Corps vet, tough as nails) from when we were in guppies (or whatever they called that 1st class). My brothers were Navy, an uncle was rescued in Midway -- twice, so the whole "lost at sea" scenario was pretty close to the surface. Part of that mentality is athletics an

I'm not surprised at all. If you look at Philmonts published guidelines and just pick any ol cheap gear, it gets heavy quickly. Also, inexperienced back packers tend to want everything, not realizing one good knife and one back packing saw works fine for the whole crew. I have never taken a knife with a crew of scouts.Then there is the SM rule of taking care of the scouts by bring extra socks, caps and gloves, first-aid and FOOD. Our troop is a back packing troop, so we got better over the years of understanding exactly what gear is really needed for a crew. One rope for a bear bag, one g

I don't think it requires anything more specific than being physically capable of providing the required adult supervision for the scout activities. Also, you can be a scouter with limited physical abilities as long as there are other scouters who can do what is necessary. There are different ways to contribute as a scouter.

Is it really a den without a leader? I mean, at some point you're going to have to be pretty blatant about it.: Either someone steps up and into the DL role or there isn't a den. It isn't fair to the leaders attempting to help out in the interim nor to the boys/roles they are supposed to be attending to. Let's face it, it's pretty obvious by now that as long as they don't NEED to, nobody will volunteer to be DL. Unfortunately you have to force their hand. Will it get you the optimum, an enthusiastic and committed leader? Probably not, but you don't have that currently, either. I

This is an old thread that could use reviving. There are still a great many scouts with learning differences that could benefit for audio books. I found the Merit Badge Handbook, the Boy Scout Handbook and the Scout Master Handbook all on: https://learningally.org/ My son is really excited about finally being able to "read" on his own. Scotty

My son has been a scout since April of this year. He's been in cub scouts and webelos but this is a new experience for both of us. It has been a rough start for him. He went to a summer camp as a provisional scout with another troop. The younger scouts of the provisional troop tormented him because he was only 10 years old and had a learning difference. Very long and painful experience him. Now that the summer is over he is with his troop and getting back into enjoying scouting. Scotty

Reading this made me wonder, do they have the "Communication" MB book on audio? Yes, my mind goes to strange places.

Which I why I am considering my options and what actions to take.

Makes no difference. A Scout should not be threatening to sexually assault a younger, weaker person regardless of this being a "non scouting" event. It's not scoutlike behavior, and honestly, every boy involved in this attempted sexual assault should be punished by the troop. If it was found they did this kind of stuff to a non-scout, I would feel the same.

3 months? That's it? To me, that's very light for something very vulgar and un-Scoutlike. And... "a similar act of poor Scout Spirit" -- just no. There should be no more similar acts. A similar act, from my point of view would be dismissal from the Troop. Are you going to discuss this act of sexual bullying and youth-on-youth abuse with your Scout Executive? I think you need to.

The curriculum may not be but the NRA certainly is, and they don't keep their political views out of their involvement in the BSA. Here's a sampling of the materials that NRA members send home with scouts: If it were just about providing good universal curriculum, I'd have no issue with it. But because of stuff like this, along with the NRA's highly political agenda, I'd personally prefer to see the BSA end their relationship with the NRA.

I wear an old, faded jammer type suit under a looser boxer style suit to prevent chafing, particularly at the beach.

My son and I wore jammers. All black ones are reasonable. Gym shorts over them while walking through camp. A mile in regular trunks = chaffing.

True story: Scoutson joined the Troop of my Scout years, much to my approval. They went hiking/camping quite often. To celebrate his "crossing over", we told him he could pick out anything in the store as a present. He already had a good backpack/frame, sleeping bag, cook set from other trips. So, he picked out a 5 D cell Maglight. For camping? Well, he chose it. Took it on one (one) 5 mile overnight hike.... after that, it sat in our pantry for backyard work....

Yeah, just for the debate, I'd say separate sites. Linked troops are separate troops and should be encouraged to create their own identity. If you're going to have websites for the units then you should have youth webmasters. While you could have a webmaster from each unit managing the same site, I think that model would take away autonomy from the new webmaster. Consider this question. If your CO was spinning up a new boys unit in parallel with the existing unit, would you want them sharing the same website? Linked troops are only linked at the adult level and that's where it sh

@EdCornflake, welcome to the forums! My gut says linked troops would benefit from a shared website, even if they don't share much else in resources. It should make it easier to see who is doing what, and it may be a great way for each of them to "raise the bar" in terms of activities, advancement, patrol bragging rights, etc ... Nothing wrong with two webmasters if you need them. Or it could be best with one webmaster and the one troop communicates to the other to keep everything posted. Depends on the youth who are available to do the work. This is definitely a "your mileage ma

Barry is spot on! The lightest piece of gear is that which isn't packed. His rec's are also why I recommend using backpacks even for car camping instead of dragging an entire trailer and a full patrol box as it provides a minimum baseline. Then a patrol can decide what one or two items they need special for the car camping trip (eg dutch oven). Making the switch from backpacking to car-camping (or canoe) is much easier than the other direction.

That is a really good precautionary consideration. I know many of those lake well and even at lower elevation some of them could threaten hypothermia if care isn't taken.

Just to muddy the waters a bit, the summer camps in Northern California are in the High Sierras. The lakes consist of near freezing cold water, even in late summer, from all of the snow runoff. The question is whether a scout is, or should be, permitted to wear a light wet suit just to keep warm? Understandably, it will provide some buoyancy, which may discount the effort in someone's view. On the other hand, it makes for a "safer" swim as the scout is less likely to experience cramping or severe loss of body heat because of the frigid temperature. NOTE: The surface temperature at t

Welcome to the forums The mile swim doesn't not state a requirement for where the mile is swum. see below. I have completed it with my son in a lake and in a pool. Both are fine. The problem with the pool is that there are people that cheat. I have seen people stand up. stop at the wall, push off the bottom of the pool. All of those are things I would disqualify for, In the lake, I have seen boy almost drown and panic. Sadly, many people that earn it probably shouldn't but it doesn't say swim it strongly or in a certain time period. My son, toasted me on the last mile swim

My, now "vintage", Mile Swim cards just state, "swam 1600 meters (1 mile) under safe conditions and has qualified for the Mile Swim BSA" on the front. The back reads, "You have proved yourself to be a strong swimmer and are commended for this fine accomplishment. It means that you are making yourself prepared for a possible emergency in the water and are working toward physical fitness. The emblem show that you have reached a worthwhile goal. Don't stop here. Continue to improve your stamina." I seem to remember all my "official" mile swims being conducted in a pool (no swimming wate

Well, I should have reported this after taking the mile hike to my morning coffee shop, but I slept in, and it was more a twenty yard dash to the bus instead. From the school of hard knocks: You don't want to find out on a 14 mile trek that you are only good for 8. You don't want some young aquatics director busting your chops because your rescue sprint is a half-second too slow. Physically strong, mentally awake, and morally straight ... none of them get any easier as you age. But our youth need us to put forth your best effort. And not just the kids, I've seen a fell

I respect Tillerson - who distanced himself from Donnie.

My dad did the same. Their "uniform" was an arm-band with the troop # and patrol emblem. His wooden frame was also a camp chair. Making gear is not difficult, but definitely a lost skill for most adults. Easier to sell popcorn and buy the gear some folks believe.

I remember when Boys Life had instructions on how to make gear. The BSA fieldbook (early ones) had some instructions too. Some of our scouts have made the "little dandy" wood stove. a neat metal working project which could be part of that mB.

I think it depends on the activities your troop does. If y'all do more longer hikes/backpacking trips then you probably need to be more "physically fit". You can make it work with any level of fitness but you might not be able to hike as far or do as much as your group intended to. I agree that your value your mental strength because I have noticed throughout scouting that it starts with how you are mentally. Do you believe you can hike another mile? While there is a level of strength required for that, you also have to have the right mindset.

My dad was poor as a kid. They had to borrow a bucket of water from the neighbors to flush their toilet. As a scout and made his own pack. Had a wooden frame.

Technology is changing the definition of lightweight. REI has some light stuff, but if you want the best, lightest stuff, you have to go to the cottage industry like Zpacks, Mountain Laurel Designs, Enlightened Equipment, Gossamer Gear, Tarptent, etc. There are compromises. You trade away durability for less weight. Also, Dyneema (formerly Cuben Fiber) is not cheap for tents and packs. Silnylon is light and and a reasonable price, but don't expect it to last decades. For those reasons, many of these things are not appropriate for scouts, but a scouter can consider them. I plan

“The American Boys’ Handy-Book” by Beard is also a great read. I so wanted to make a houseboat when I was a kid. Definitely written in a different time ... “Just stop in at the local sawmill and see if the workers will give you some castoff boards for free!”

Honestly, I was surprised to learn exactly how much work goes into everything "behind the scene," so to speak. Countless work hours and a lot of dedication. More power to those guys and gals.

There are many people with learning differences, e.g., dyslexia, who can greatly benefit from audiobooks. Learning Ally has quite a few of the merit badge handbooks on audio. There is an annual fee of Learning Ally is not part of the school's library. See: https://learningally.org/ Scotty

As shortridge said, "Woodcraft" by Sears. "Camping and Woodcraft" by Horace Kephart "The Boy Scout Hike Book" and "The Boy Scout Camp Book" by Edward Cave "The Campers Handbook" by Thomas Holding "Camp and Trail Methods" by Elmer Kreps many of these can be found digitally.

Collectively, the scouts in the unit did 1,000+ nights.

I like, wore my Wood Badge hat at a Cub campout this past weekend and I think it might have been considered too showy!

Wait, there are 365 days in a year???

Looking at the current requirements for Bear, I don't understand this? A lot of it can be done outside, and a lot of it is "hands on" (building stuff with tools, Whittling Chip, etc.) Maybe he's following the Bear Den Leader Guide meeting plans too closely? They are only intended to serve as ideas / suggestions -- not the one and only way to run the den meetings. http://usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/bear-core.asp#claws http://usscouts.org/advance/cubscout/bear-elective.asp

I was at summer camp and a couple of WB (dare I say) zealots were hitting it pretty heavy that WB was the end all be all. Told them not doubting it may have some benefit, but in the last 5 years I had been pretty busy as we had doubled the number of scouts attending monthly outings, the troop was exceeding 1,000 nights camping each year, we did 2 summer camps, 1 High adventure trek, did 11 other outdoor activities, had 10 -12 Eagle scouts each year, service projects, etc and really was not sure what WB might do to take us the the next level? I explained my focus was on the unit and deliverin

Big Iron by Marty Robbins is a crowd pleaser...if you have a stand up bass it really sells it To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day Hardly spoke to folks around him, didn't have too much to say, No one dared to ask his business, no one dared to make a slip The stranger there among them had a big iron on his hip, Big iron on his hip It was early in the morning when he rode into the town He came riding from the south side, slowly lookin' all around "He's an outlaw loose and runnin'", came a whisper from each lip "And he's here to do some business with a big iron on his

My favorite is the 1967 edition. Timeless insights. Well written, well organized. Page 87, Chapter 6, Lead Your Patrol on Hikes: "Scouting was intended for the outdoors. Most of your patrol members joined to go camping and hiking...." Next para: Learn Hike Leadership. "Planning a varied hike program." "Knowing what equipment to take." "Being courteous...." "Observing safety precautions on trails and roads." "Knowing how to keep from getting lost (and what to do if you get lost)." "Practicing the rules of health and sanitation." "These all add

Follow-up: Assembly was this last weekend. My son went through Ordeal and did great IMHO. The old SM was there but didn't interact with him at all so that was perfect. Best thing of all, my son came home super jazzed about OA and Scouting. So it was a great outcome.

Our camp has a nice Friday tradition: mile swim before breakfast, five mile hike around the lake before lunch, and four mile canoe around the lake after lunch. They call it the Heritage Reservation Iron Man. Youth and adults may participate. Comes with a nice t-shirt. (Used to be in Steelers colors, but I think the Ravens fans weren't buying them, so they changed the design. )

I'm a fairly experienced open water swimmer. I've done unofficial mile swims in lakes, and half-mile and 600 yard swims in bays, and a quarter mile swim in a beach area. This summer I did the mile swim in a 25-yard pool with a group of about 20 boys. Open water is easier than dodging boys while doing 71 turns.

I completely agree open water is very different than a pool, but you need to be a real good swimmer to get much off the push unless the pool is less than 25 yards or meters. If they can pull off 72 flip turns in a 25 yard pool without choking once, I say they have it down. I think if the BSA wanted it restricted to open water they would have put it in the rules.