DuctTape

Ours is the Monday before. The time sink is having too many ppl involved in the process. At the troop meeting, the PLC has set aside some time (20 minutes) for patrol meetings. Here, the patrol plans their campout, not as a whole group, but by specific roles. The patrol leader helps each member with their specific task to plan. APL helps PL. Each role might have an assistant. Grubmaster plans menu. Hikemaster plans activities. QM requisions needed gear from troop QM. Cheermaster plans campfire. Having a group discuss bacon or sausage for twenty minutes is a time sink.

Great answers guys. To add to them, each patrol creates their own menu. Best is having one person in charge of it, the grubmaster. This is the patrol member who knows what everyone else likes, dislikes, allergies etc... they also instruct other members how to create the menu, compile amounts, generate shopping list, etc... When a member is ready to complete the menu planning requirements, the grubmaster lets them take the wheel.

I agree with Fred. As an aside, I had visited my Eagle Project site 20 years later and saw that others had continued my project (building and restoring a trail). Not only that, the parks department had named the trail and put up markers. I realized that my project was more than just the work, but was also promoting the idea of community service and shared responsibilty to others through my actions.

I understand and agree with the problems. I disagree with your magic wand solution. I also would shorten cubs, but have it 3rd-6th grade. I am a teacher and 6th graders are more like elementary kids, itbis more pronounced in the boys. 7th and above for scouts. At this point, both boys and girls are flexinv their wings but need significant guidance. The scout led program with older scouts (high school age) provides this guidance naturally. The younger scouts look up to the HS age and mimic what they see&do. If the HS age scouts are no longer present in your solution, the system becomes adult-led. There might only be a few HS aged scouts, but that is ok. They are the leaders of the troop.

Always an issue when performance is primarily based on numbers which are easy to manipulate. I am reminded of the quote (I do not recall who said it), "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

Just another reason I do not favor the chartering org model. I understand mine is a minority opinion.

Also mB being done without a qualified counselor to maximize the effectiveness of the Adult Association method. The system and protocols actively discourage the benefits from adult association in the mB process. This denies the scouts from a truly beneficial experience with an expert passionate about the badge. The mB system needs to be overhauled completely and returned to its former status as a badge of merit.

I would encourage all patrols to take this mindset. Packing for a backpacking trip even if the car is 100 feet away. All gear is packed and single carried from the cars which are then locked for the weekend. With this as the standard operating procedure, inching away from the vehicle becomes a non-issue. Necxt trip, backpack in a half-mile to that cool stream that was found on the 1st camping trip. Third trip, do the 10 mile loop around the pond setting up camp along the way. When the scouts (and adults) have the routine of packing and single carrying their gear/food in a backpack, the only change from car-camping to everything else is distance.

If scouts are not participating in the campouts, then tgd first step is finding out why. Likely it is b/c they aren't fun. This is often a result of the adults planning them. I hope you can find a group of scouts, create a patrol and plan your own outings with fun stuff to do.

Sorry to hear that. Perhaps you could be the change agent the troop needs to start having them.

After you find or make a new flag, at the next campout challenge another patrol to a game of capture the flag.

Wait, I thought that was Luke Skywalker and a TaunTaun?

Recently I was driving somewhere and it became apparent that I was in the vicinity of a few cars that were in a convoy. Their driving to maintain proximity and eye contact with each other created a dangerous situation, These other drivers were oblivious to everyone else due to their primary objective of staying in a group. Since I was able to discern which vehicles were involved, I was able to maintain being safe. While I am sure some very capable drivers would be able to drive in a convoy and maintain safety, it does add just one more item by which one could be distracted.

That questionnaire is definitely a great idea. So are the suggestions you gave to the District Executives. Agreed, the hardest part is getting the actual leaders to buy into it. Other practical steps. (I apologize in advbance for my stream of consciousness) Committee Chair and SM need to be on the same page as the troop requires adult leadership in both areas. Immediately register every adult in the troop and have them complete YPT. this serves a number of functions, first and foremost it sets the tone that participation and training is the basic expectation of all people in the troop; scouts and adults alike. At all scouting events, including (and especially) meetings have an adult training piece. It can be any number of the module trainings like the YPT, or other adult leader type training. Or live trainings like Introduction to the Patrol Method, Troop Committee Training, etc... These can be conducted by the SM, Committee Chair, or any number of current adult leaders (just like we have the scouts train their patrol mates not just the PL or SPL) Ask them to do something small. (also a reason for the YPT). "Hey Mr. X, next weekend the Eagle Patrol is doing a hike. I could really use your help as one of the shuttle drivers." Host District/Council Training events so that your adults can more easily attend. Adults, like youth, have natural preferences. They will either lean towards Troop Committee type roles, or SM/ASM type roles. recognize these tendencies and nurture them. Invite adults for coffee chats (think SM conference for adults). Lastly, recognize everything. It is not just Scouts who react positively to praise and recognition. Notice and thank them publicly for everything. Create incentive "awards" such as "The Troop Driver Pin"- awarded to an adult who has driven scouts 5x. Invite adults to the Troop Committee Meeting where they will be recognized for completing trainings, making contributions, etc... I suggest to do this at Committee Meetings so as to not take focus away from the Scouts at their meetings. Certainly special recognitions for adults may occur at COH, but these should be minimized at much as possible. As I mentioned from the onset, I do not have this all figured out. I only know that it requires a system wide approach. Hopefully these pratical ideas as an addition to the ones you already mentioned will be helpful to you and others.

I apologize, it isn't an easy distinction to make and most dismiss my distinction as a difference in rhetoric but it is much more than that in practice. The distinction is between focus on people vs system. Notice your response was focused solely on people; how many, etc... Because people come and go, and this is especially true when the number is limited, this focus rarley is successful. And as you point out, people are complicated. I advocate a focus on the organization itself, the processes which are utilized, and the decisions which are made. All of the decisions, processes, procedures are based on the development of future leaders of the organization. From the moment of introduction to onboarding and so forth. The entire purpose is to develop future leaders. This removes the search for the person and instead makes all people the potential future leaders. I know it does not seem like a difference, but it really is. One measure of the difference is whether people willingly step down from a position in order to create the vacuum for the next person to serve. This will permeate within the organization at all levels. I suppose I can phrase the distinction in the form of a question, Are individuals looking for their successor, or does the organization create them by design?

Yep. The finding one's successor is the problem I identified years ago in so many organizations. This doesn't work. It focuses on finding a person. Instead I believe it is better and more effective to focus on one's replacement's replacement. This requires focusing on the system instead of an individual. People come and go, which is why the "find one's successor" most often fails in the long term. It does not sustain itself, it has a single point of failure. When the focus is on creating a system by which leaders are nurtured, recruited and supported then the system itself generates successors. By focusing on my replacemen't replacement... a person i will never meet, it requires I create and nurture a sytem of leadership development to ... find my replacement's replacement.

Yeah, leader burnout is a real thing. this is true in most organizations who fail to have a systematic approach to future leader recruitment and training. This also permeates to the youth; for good and for bad. I have found that the best philosophy for myself is to build the capacity to cultivate your replacement's replacement. This future forward approach requires longer term planning than the typical "find one's replacement". It is difficult for sure. I still have not figured it out completely. I have figured out that just having that principle as the premise helps tremendously as it focuses one's efforts and decisions. I try to keep a first principle in mind for all my decision making. With the scouts it is "do not do for a scout that which they can do for themselves". With the adults it is "cultivate your replacement's replacement".

Total cost is on a continuum. I have seen high quality active outdoor troops which were relatively inexpensive. I have seen low quality less active troops be more expensive. And everthing in between. A quality program is not synonymous with expensive. Quality, Easy, Cheap. pick two. A thrifty troop fills the $ gap with more work/effort.

Sadly, it is more common than one might think at summer camps. And some camps are significantly worse than others. Part of the problem is the "counselors" are other scouts, albeit a few years older. This should not be allowed. Even if if was an adult who officially signed the card. The adult is supposed to have tested each scout on the requirements, not rely on a 15 year old CIT who "led a class". The merita badge mill summer camps are a stain on the entire process. Sadly BSA doesn't just turn a blind eye, it appears they actively encourage it.

I am not that worried about a DBA, or Trademark name. I am also not concerned about co-ed troops. I understand the concerns that some have expressed. However, if the Patrol Method and Scout-Led is done correctly, I see those as the mitigating factor for all the concerns. For example, one concern was that some boys want to be separate from the girls; to do their own thing without having to worry about primping etc... Then the Patrol Method and Scout Led is the solution. In a Scout Led, Patrol Method troop, the scouts choose their own patrols so these boys can choose to be all together as an all -boy patrol and they can decide on their own adventures. There is no requirement that this patrrol do the same campout, event, adventures as the other patrols which may be all-girl, or co-ed. They do not even have to travel to the same forest for their campout. This has been true even before the discussion about girls. There were issues with scouts not wanting to be with other scouts in their patrol or did not want to go on the same camporee for the 5th time. The solution is and has always been, use the Patrol Method and have a Scout -Led troop. Issues arise due to adult interference. The adult objection I have heard over the decades is, they have to go to the same event as the other patrols because we do not have enough adults to drive to separate events. This is hogwash IMO, and here is why. In order to transport each patrol of say 6 scouts, this will require two vehicles, thus two adults. Each patrol has their own independent transportation and 2-deep leadership by default. So, back to my original comment. I am not concerned if the adults will get out of the way of the patrol method and eliminate practices and decisions which erode the Scout Led and Patrol Method of their troop.

The Scoutmaster's "Minute" is not just for a Troop Meeting Closing, it is a guiding principle. 😉

Perhaps she needs a refresher course.

Rephrase it as 3x the opportunities for scout growth. Scouting isn't "work". By her doing one big patrol she is denying scouts opportunities.

All good responses so far. I apologize for not including this phrase in my prior reply as I feel it is very important; others have hinted at it in their responses. I believe that Scouting done well is evidence of the truth of this statement. Not eveything that counts is measureable, and not everything that is measureable counts. (paraphrase of a quote often attributed to Einstein)

Growth in individual scouts. Seeing a new scout who can barely tie their own shoes develop into a patrol leader who plans, and leads their patrol on an overnight camping trip with adults only as drivers and required YPT. And all the other iterations of similar growth.