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Well, I'm not a scout, but I do know that snipe are indigenous to swampy areas not woods. I think you would be sending me on a wild goose chase, but we all know wild geese hang out at rivers and lakes unless they are migrating and then will rest at night in open fields, again, not woods. However, if you would like, I could possibly look around the fire here and maybe find an old coot or two for you.

I'll take a shot at this one... Do I support females in Scouting? Yes, I do... in a separate organization and a different program from the boys. Do I support female Scout leaders? Again, yes I do... in a separate organization from the boys. You state that the youth members may have their own viewpoints that differ... Well, did anyone ask them? Did national send out a poll to all registered Boy Scouts and allow them to have a say? I know what my own son and his patrol think about the idea. They don't like it. They enjoyed those campouts with just the guys... even though

As I've said more than once I would be very hesitant to land the losses in the UK in the 1990s and early 2000s at the door of going coed. There was simply too much else going on. I was a scout till 1994 before moving to Venture scouts. I can tell you that the image of scouting in the UK at the time sucked. And it sucked becase it stagnated. Nobody was quitting because of girls joining. They were quitting because of the awful uniform which hadn't been updated since the 1960s. They left because the age ranges which worked in the 1960s no longer reflected natural peer groups. They left becau

Several of us have been saying the same thing for several years, especially in the last year. But my opinion is that BSA is only focused on the new program. They are basically scrapping the idea of the traditional "Boy" Scouts and going full speed ahead of a Family Scouts program. It's a work as they go along type of development, but there is no doubt in my mind that they are driving toward that program. Someone said it earlier in this thread, but I have been saying it for a long time, the BSA only needs to look at the Canadian Scouts to see their future. Barry

According to the YPT rules being discussed here, the girl would not be able to do that in the US unless there was at least another female leader along on that trip.

Gear and logistics is not an inconsequential issue in a 70+ Scout unit. The amount of effort to put out a call for gear for a second unit is a substantial effort. I was SM when our unit did a gear drive for a local unit that had its gear and trailer stolen, and it was a monumental effort for the boys to handle alone. Even with adults assisting it was a rough go. Another good point is sharing leaders. I don't know about you lot, but when I was SM I was already ploughing in a good 20+ hours a week in to our troop. I have started up units before and I know what the time commitment is for tha

To you list I will add: Complaining about is problem is MUCH easier than rolling up your sleeves and working to fix it.

I plead the 5th concerning other troops/ patrols, ice cream, etc. But I did end up marrying a Camp Fire girl I met at camp 43 years ago.

Why don't you ask my three daughters if I am anti-female before you start slinging that slur. I am as heavily engaged in their parenting and development as I am for my son. However, I am experienced enough to appreciate the differences between boys and girls when it comes to a unique program like Scouting. And those differences don't just disappear because of politically-correct derision.

I was born in 1970, and I'm on the older side of parents in Scouting. The culture is today's culture, not 1970's culture.

This was discussed in another thread a few years back. I haven't managed to put the data in a good sharable format, so here are my conclusions and you'll have to just hope I got these sweeping generalizations right: Aside from Indonesia and some former communist-block countries, co-ed WOSM organizations have generally seen a decline in membership, although not as steep as us. However, they nearly all have uniformly lost boys. The percentage of boys served in respective countries has dropped. Although Scouts UK's census has recovered after three decades, it

Michael B. Surbaugh CES expressed some very anti-co-ed feelings at the national jamboree, he said things like a "single sex program was very important to boys development" and we would NOT be going co-ed. Maybe Michael should step back or step down. . .

With the exception of Venture scouts the Uk didn't go coed till 1991 (local option) and fully coed 2007. Number started rising in 2005. Long way from a 30 year gap.

My personal opinion is the program will change dramatically, not so much by admitting girls, but from the adults that will join as a result of all the membership changes. Most of the adults will have very little understanding or experience with Patrol Method, so while it will be set up in the spirit of the handbooks, the adults won't let it process toward the design intention of the method. The adults that do know will be few and far between. If they don't know what they are looking for, they won't know how to drive toward it. Barry

Sorry, but why should he step down to avoid spreading his ideas, and yet others here with different ideas are not offered the same option to step away to avoid spreading their ideas?

We are talking about starting a second unit. Whether 10 or 50 girls, you are talking about a second organization. This second organization will require leadership and adult support. It will require logistical and operational support, among other things. BSA is assuming two things: 1) Either current volunteers and COs will take on these units and provide the services they do today, or 2) A new set of volunteers will spring up and help roll this out. Both of these assumptions are short-sighted on BSA's part. Experience with the current program shows that new volunteers are very hard t

You're right, these are very real issues. And we all know there would be challenges associated with this. I didn't petition the BSA to make this change without acknowledging that there would be a lot of work to be done, and that it wouldn't be easy. But I'm ready and willing to do the work. I know not everyone is, but I suspect enough people are willing to try and make it happen. I don't care what's going on up in Canada or anywhere else. I believe in the BSA and what this organization can do if enough people dig in and do what needs to be done to make this work.

I am not sure of your role in Scouting, but if you have extremely anti-co-ed feelings you may want to step back from spreading those opinions among the youth. If the boys are doing their own camp selection and annual planning, maybe they will make different choices, and whatever they choose should be supported.

Adding a second boys unit to an already large Boy Scout unit would be a significant issue in and of itself. But adding a new girls program, with 20-40 new girls who don't know how Boy Scouts works, would be like taking on a new Scout class of 20-40...and their families. And it wouldn't stop at the end of Year 1 like it does now. It would continue for a few years until you get a full crop of girls through the program. You'd have to train Scouts and parents alike. You can make light of the excuses that might be used, but you cannot dismiss the fact that these are very real issues. Issu

Our pack used to do the flaming arrow across the lake also. Granted the lake was way to big to really get a real arrow all the way across. The person on the other side would wait a couple seconds and then light a huge bonfire while the boys canoed across the lake. Very cool effect each year. Since the property we were using was sold we have since moved to our local council camp. There is a zip line already rigged up in the amphitheater for cross over ceremony's. However, the line failed us last year and the flare type thing they were using just sat up on the line burning for a good 5

If this is handled similar to how our council is handling Cub Scout camps (both day and overnight) there is no separate weeks for boys vs girls. The council simply states that if you meet the age requirements and are registered them you can attend. They’ll handle the added requirements due to multiple genders.

I'm sure it's been done, but I think there are things you do with your family and there are things you do with your troop, and WDW definitely falls into the former...in my humble opinion

I'd say a couple of things..... I remember when the first girl came to my current group. Now fare enough this was with cubs rather than scouts but it went like this.... Comments had been made, mostly by adults, that it would be a disaster, that the boys wouldn't stick around, they wouldn't like it. On the night she came along I treated her exactly the same as any other new cub. I asked one of the sixers* to adopt her and take her into her six. I introduced her at flag break. Her name was Martha. And then we got on with the usual cub night. Nobody quit. She fitted in. And a couple of

@Col. Flagg, if somebody told me to take charge of a unit of 70+ youth, I'd tell them to go pound sand. The max I think I'd put up with is 40! That's all the more I've ever known. The more likely scenario is 5 girls knocking at my door. I know about 3 other women who I can trust to help start this BSA4G program without watering anything down. (I know more, but I'd have to convince them to find a job and relocate here.) While other CO's may let us use their facilities, my current CO would want those girls coming through their door, and my existing troop would want me to have both units coordina

I don't think the boys in your troop are strange. In this area, I would not be surprised to see boys opt out of the program when the girls are added. Boy Scouts isn't exactly seen as the "cool" thing to do by today's youth. Adding females to the program does not help combat the image that Boy Scouts has in this area of being made up of "weak" and "nerdy" kids. My son earned Eagle and has aged out of the program, but he is not happy with where it is going. I doubt his troop will become co-ed... females were allowed to serve committee positions only, and were not allowed on camp outs.

My concern about the reality not matching is when we parrot the BSA company line about being separate and not 'co-ed' Troops BUT what happens (because of either policy change, wink-wink on paper units, or the exhaustion of leaders) is when we get 'co-ed' Troops WE will face the significant loss of trust. Some of the boys sitting in a "Life to Eagle" session recently I doubt they will finish before 2019 hits. They will have to make their decisions then....

Interesting to put in something about the Scout law. IMHO while in theory correct, the challenge is that this is not what many of the Boys and Leaders signed up for. BSA National has substantially changed the rules of the game. To put out that if one does not support this one is not upholding the Scout Oath and Law is not really accurate If you agree to be involved in something (job / purchase / volunteer), are committed and then someone from outside what you are doing says you have to do that plus all this other stuff, that changes what you agreed to get involved with and by that same

Riddle me this CSE Surbaugh: "What's fast, wood, and powered by gravity?" Answer: A Girl Scout Girls Fast Track Race! This is the kind of STEM (or is it STEAM or STEEM or STEAMER) activity that BSA should have started like in the 1950's or something. Why can't our boys (or girls now) carve blocks of wood and race them? Why can't OUR kids learn science while having fun? The gloves are off...start selling Boy Scout Cookies...just make sure they are marketed correctly (Boy Scout Cookies "Macho Mocha Mints with extra Transfats! Nothing-but-Gluten Do-see-don'ts, Bacon wrapped lardettos!"

On Scout Sunday our pastor gave us a big shout out and approval and then said how we are now accepting girls! So I guess we are...

Good Lord, that would be the BEST if BSA did something like this. Get all adult members in BSA to vote on the board and major decisions? Hilarity and chaos would ensue. This could be a huge TV event and multi- episode reality show. Mark Burnett could produce it and with the revenue BSA could erase some of the Summit debt.

Mate, they put up with me and a couple of others that aren't even in the same *country*, I say crack on.

1) People taking Scouting too seriously. It's supposed to be fun, the boys (well until recently only boys) are supposed to enjoy coming to meeting and outings. If it's school in the woods, probably will not be much fun. If you spend 20 minutes going over rules and regulations before heading into a basic situation, probably will not be much fun. Stop quoting chapter and verse of this or that requirement, regulation, or guideline. As leaders you HAVE to be enjoying the game of scouting. That will pervade the unit. Not that one cannot be serious when needed, be urgent when called f

He should go over to Bryan and get us a smoke shifter

Hmm, If we follow tradition you are supposed to go find a snipe in the woods not logs. But as you seem a decent fellow I suggest you just roast another marshmallow

I probably won''t go back to lurking. Some of the people here have given me some worthwhile ideas to kick around. I don't ignore my kid one iota, but sometimes one is made to feel like as "just a parent" that somehow I'm letting my kid down. But he comes back home each week and seems to be having a good time with it. I do see the toll it takes on the scout leadership and am concerned that by becoming involved, it will detract from my other responsibilities. No I don't hang out at bars, don't play golf, and pretty much am a stay-at-home dad that spends as much time as I can with the k

Pselb, you are just as free to express your perspective as anyone else. And others are free to disagree with your perspective, as much as anyone else's. But it would be helpful if everybody realized that there is a perspective other than their own, on almost every subject discussed in this forum.

The legend is that if he sees his shadow, he gets scared and runs back to his burrow to continue to hibernate. If he doesn't see his shadow, he doesn't get scared and he stops hibernating. In the real world, make groundhogs emerge sometime in February to find a mate. Once they have mated, the go back in to hibernation until sometime in March. The tradition of Groundhog Day started in post-Catholic Germany. Until Germany became a mostly protestant nation, the German's celebrated Candlemas Day (conveniently on February 2) where the Catholic Church would bless and distribute candles

Maybe even less. Phil's accuracy is about 36% from 1969 to 2016. I've heard it said that being a weatherperson is the only job in the world where you can be wrong 95% of the time and still make more that $250K per year.

Must have been mine as it was deleted. I asked if someone was willing to have their son sell popcorn outside the gentleman's club. Why it was deleted is beyond me as long as we are dealing in hypotheticals and trying to determine just where the line of acceptability is going to be drawn. Heavy-handed moderators at their best.

Update: of 17 Tigers 10 will be awarded the rank. 4 never showed up after recruitment and 3 didn't show up but a couple of times. AND I can call em all by name too.

I had a den leader that was a mom and was better than some of the dads!

@EagleVolunteer, welcome to the forums! Do you remember Mazda's "Dogs ... love ... trucks" commercial? Boyscouts ... love ... paperwork! Ask him if there's a young adult in the troop who can help you with the milling and assembly. He should be responsible for mocking up and drawing. If your 3-D drafting he and a buddy should be looking over your shoulder as you do. Surely, there's a hand tool that one can use instead of a Kreg jig. Same for finish hardware. We live in a century-old house. Screwing knobs was part of the kid's skill set from when they were old enough to ya

excellent post Stosh. which takes me to categories..... I for one pay absolutely zero attention to category, except when I post a new thread. Otherwise..... I'm looking at new posts since my last visit....all of them....with equal interest. I can't imagine logging in here to check to see if there are any new posts in let's say the politics one..... or the next time in the advancement one....

This is an entirely expected result. With politically-correct shaming, adult Scouters may be brow-beaten to ignore the obvious developmental differences between boys and girls. But that kind of coercion will not keep boys from just opting-out of Scouting altogether (as they are already doing in other parts of society). I predict Scouting will lose two boys for every new girl that enrolls. In the end, BSA will be a ghost of its former self - following in the disastrous path of co-ed Scouting in Canada. BSA National is rolling the dice, and the results on membership will be devastating - similar

Well, that was easy.

Our Scout Exec told us that the information he has heard is that there will be seperate troops, but they could share the same COR, CC, and even SM (although they suggest that be different). The PLC for each troop would be different, so that means the troops would operate differently. My take on that information is that the troops may decide to co-exist but would have different meetings and different campouts with some shared meetings/campouts.