Leaderboard

No, that's not what the "estimation" would be for. Right now we can multiply the number of claims times the Michigan State University settlement amount per survivor in the Larry Nassar and say the total combined liability of all parties should be about $155 billion. BSA and Local Council assets combined are literally 1%-3% of that. Even Century's reserves are only about 50% of that. Or we can multiply it by an average over some group of Catholic diocese abuse settlements, various ones over a series of years, which I think I saw above in this thread as $200,000 per survivor, and get a

Some IMHOs: 1. We cannot say we will run out of money in August and then ask for an extension past that date. 2. We (and survivors) do not want the litigation spreading to our councils whether they still exist or are absorbed into National this summer. 3. The excuses given regarding the incomplete Mar 1, "Revised Plan" would not sway my high school literature teacher. 4. Following her thought "bring a toothbrush", I hope the judge sequesters the "relevant" parties into a room to amend the incomplete, problematic Mar 1, "Revised Plan" into a complete, acceptable "Compromise

This is a problem from cubs on up. Parts of the program are not developmentally appropriate. It can also be boring and repetitive. One of my fears is that if anything of BSA survives bankruptcy it will still trot along without really addressing some of the root reasons why kids today find it less appealing. For starters, it needs to be less homework like and more outdoors focused.

Well, let's come back to equity. That has a long tradition in jurisprudence. As a scout, we got to talking with judges and one of the key lessons one taught was that his responsibility was to meet out justice with equity. The requirement would be far more interesting if it asked scouts to talk to a judge or magistrate about equity.

We have our current SM because back when his first two boys aged out and his third was in cubs, Son #3 begged to quit the pack. I encouraged the dad, "Let him. Go have fun with him. He wants to play all of those massive board games you've built!" (The figures on the guy's game pieces are astounding.) A few years later, a 12-ish year-old boy shows up at a troop meeting, and his interest in scouting has grown and grown. It's been a couple years and he's still working on 1st class and having fun ... in spite of his dad being the big cheese! There are new opportunities to recruit teens who h

The BSA has stated ~130 M individuals have been Scouts since the founding in 1910. The only number that we have are the claimants now as there were few cases before recent years so that number is low. Also, the BSA number is likely not accurate but should be close to correct. So for ~100,000 claimants out of 130,000,000 participants, the ratio is 0.000769 or ~0.08 %. While no level if abuse is acceptable, one must realize that the BSA has served many youth and that the prevalence of reported abuse is very small.

People (you, me, parents, just about everybody on this site) still want the BSA org to go back to what it once was. I concluded that ain't gonna happen, maybe a year ago. Not trying to be my usual negative self here, just going to share what I've done to keep moving forward. I'm still the Cub Scout enthusiast, but now I'm a Unit Commissioner for anybody who wants me. I've helped a group of students in a homeschooling pod two doors down, gave my neighbor's kids wood to assemble a toolbox, lent out my PWD tracks several times, along with my balloon launcher. I'm also making how-to video

You KNOW that the world's turned upside down when @David COand I agree on something, but we agree on this. BSA couldn't even be bothered to answer ONE question about the SAFETY (not program) need for the YPT policy on adults tenting with their own children.

Yes. Look at the responses that followed. Look at them very closely. The problem is that BSA ignores customer response. It is a foolish way of doing business, and BSA is now paying the price for its arrogance.

I didn't know that was not allowed per YP. I agree for a safety aspect, a parent should be able to tent together. If possible, I think it is best for the scouts to share with other scouts but that isn't a safety concern. I would love to know the answer as well about why it isn't allowed under the safety guideline. If it is program based, then it should be a recommendation not a requirement.

Regarding the malase at National. I had the opportunity recently to speak with the professional at National that is in charge of the program for Venturing and Sea Scouts. We talked about the limitation of them not able to earn Merit Badges unless they had already attained first class in a troop. We actually have requirements in our programs are to have scouts earn the merit badge for a few requirements. To me, it seemed obvious that all Sea Scouts and Venturers should be allowed to earn the merit badge if they complete the requirements. The response I got was that this would hurt Troo

This is what blows my mind (not really) Until 2020 and the bankruptcy, by BSA's own admission, direct contact leaders were NOT all YPT trained. They only hit 99.9% in 2020. As recently as 2018 that number was only 67.1%. As for the clarity, I can point to three different items right now on the BSA website regarding two-deep leadership that directly contradict each other, especially in the area of virtual activities, whether or not merit badge counselors are/are not "registered adult leaders" for purposes of two-deep, etc. And when you ask you are either given multiple contr

To this laundry list of culpability I would add all the behind the scenes dirty laundry that has been aired here by scouters actively involved in the program but not widely known by outside critics: less than 100% YPT training rates; scouters who view YPT as a nuisance and flaunt it;; scouters who dislike parental involvement and sometimes even actively discourage it; lack of any real oversight by BSA and lack of attention to the dysfunctional CO structure; lack of clarity about YP policies; the volunteer manpower crisis that sometimes leads units to keep questionable people in scouting roles;

BSA enrollment is dropping like a rock. I guess BSA has gotten an answer. Not the one it wanted, but an answer all the same.

I joined Cub Scouts as a Wolf in the 82/83 school year. I couldnt tell you if we had Tigers or not. I know I was never a Tiger. As current CM, I am not sure I see much point in Lions/Tigers. I think Wolf would be a good starting point.

The solution to what? Not getting an answer? Is the solution that being a member of the upper echelons is the only way to get the answer, or that those now holding these upper positions will never give the answer, so you need new people and are recruiting them? This issue came up last weekend when we were camping with a brand new Scout and his dad, and it was awkward telling him that tenting with his own son was a YP issue, especially given that less than a month ago when he was the AOL Den Leader it wasn't. Short of me taking on yet another volunteer role, this time in the Service T

I joined as a Wolf in the 83/84 school year. My Bear year (84/85) was the first year our pack had Tigers. We had a large and active pack at the time (60 or so kids), so it wouldn't surprise me if they started a Tiger den soon after the program launched in 82. Cheers to the memory of Pack 279 at Our Lady of Grace Catholic School in the now-defunct Calumet Council, and camping as a pack at Indiana Dunes in early March (brrrrr!) I always thought the point of Tigers and now Lions was to get the kids into Scouting before other activities could sink their claws into them.

Different databases. Your local council records could have been destroyed as in a fire or expensive and difficult to access. Our council had a fire a long time ago and some records were lost. Like most councils, older records are stored with a records storage company and accessing those records takes time and costs the council. Some councils absorb such costs while others charge. They may have a policy about the reasons that are considered reasonable to access records. The paper record keeping before computer databases is known in general to have more issues with completeness. The r

If we're talking about meting out justice and being equitable with regards to the outcome based on the evidence presented, I'm all for it. But that does not appear to be the "equity" in question here

"Scouts should never be political in nature...we aren't looking to push any agenda whatsoever" At best, this statement is disingenuous/insincere. At worst, it is misleading. When you are actively promoting far-left ideals, it is INHERENTLY political and it IS pushing an agenda. "a Discuss with your merit badge counselor the following terms and why they are important (1) Diversity (2) Equity (3) Inclusion (4) Bigotry (5) Intersectionality ... 2. Discuss racism with your counselor including the four types of racism listed below For EACH type, give one example from personal

I try to not think about the headwinds that scouting is driving into. I have a group of boys that I am giving my all to as scoutmaster. I have 7 scouts (out of 11) working on their eagle rank. Recruiting for my troop will need to be rethought. Fewer number of webelos out there to recruit now.

I think this is a very good reason for some Scouts not sticking around. My wife is an educator and she's always commenting about some of the rank and Merit Badge requirements and that there are a lot that are not developmentally appropriate for kids under a certain age. On the other hand, I took on the role of Advancement Chair for our Troop and I get a lot of comments from parents of Scouts that drop that gives the impression that they were expecting Webelos 3. Parent: "Whaddaya mean my son doesn't get things signed off? He was there!" Me: "Well, we've said since he started th

For about 50% of our Scouts it is. About 25% of parents hang around and talk, but don't contribute. The other 20-25% are the ones who are really helping, mentoring, teaching, driving, camping, etc. Pareto principle at work... or More like Price's Law https://dariusforoux.com/prices-law/

Who knows? Same thing with the Catholic Church: the only way to find out is if 1) Those organizations kept a paper trail (as BSA did and Catholic Dioceses in the U.S.) 2) Lawsuits that find abuse cases and/or that paper trail from #1 3) Criminal investigations that find abuse cases and/or that paper trail from #1 4) Government hearings with subpoena or equivalent power (I'm thinking of the 2009 Irish commission on this subject regarding the Catholic Church, although that was criticized as a whitewash by some).

I finally realized you were saying about a forth of new scouts dropped out. That is probably about right, but I found first year drop outs almost impossible to track. As someone mentioned in a earlier post, many scouts sign up, but never show up. I like to place them in the catagory of scouts who quit after cubs. That is important for watching the performance of cub packs. The obstacle of tracking scouts is the independence of districts re-signing their membership. And units add more confusion by their own independent definition of active scouts. I found the only accurate way to track sco

From my experience it really depends on how well the Webelos leaders prepared the scouts and parents for the transition to Boy Scouts. many seem to run at the cub level which is still very parent led without preparing them to being a hybrid or scout-led and parent-led. For example, Webelos should have Webelos only campouts where they plan the menu and cook it. But have a parent help really review and help teach them how to menu plan and cook. The parent should be within ear shot and let them do with a review after each step. If they do this a few times, the scouts will figure it out. Th

Membership and money over all else...

I have often thought the way to light a fire under National would be to get a group of adult Scouters to file a brief in the bankruptcy court indicating that BSA does NOT take YPT seriously, as indicated by the fact that when we as registered adult leaders ask questions we are given a) multiple answers or b) blown off. Then provide email chains showing/demonstrating this. Of course, any scouter who did that would a) be purged and b) if they had kids in program would see any chance they had a Eagle voided on the spot.

@CynicalScouter, I have had many questions, also. One particular question was regarding 72 hour rule and MBCs (whether they were "registered leaders" or not, and what was the difference if our CO approved them to camp with us.) I asked our DE (when we had one), who did not have the answer. Asked a more senior DE, and the FD, who had different answers (one of them was "blow it off" ). Asked the SE, who said ask National. Asked DE friends and another SE in separate council...another different answer! When I asked National, the YP person said right out, that I was trying to circumven

1) In the MN case where the BSA’s own expert was “forced” to reveal the internal data she discovered, the number of perpetrators was 7800+ and known/identified victims 12,000+. This was not revealed until she was made to do it under oath. Looked mucho bad; 2) Pedophile predation studies indication the 1 perp x 100 victims over the course of their active predation x 7,800 = a huge number, as in 780,000. Not all could be said or alleged to have been Scouts but, again, terrible implications and optics; 3) To my knowledge, no follow up investigation or inquiry was done after that in cour

The question came up how can they accommodate religious concerns/objections especially in the context of sexual orientation/identity. I think they can do it using the existing draft that got leaked. There are three places where sexual orientation are discussed Draft Requirement 3 Solution: Discuss with your merit badge counselor how your unit can create the most welcoming environment for every person who wants to be involved with your unit. Tell what more your unit can do to ensure anyone can participate regardless of their ability, ethnicity, faith, financial background

"There are no stupid questions," as they used to tell us. We all benefited from DLL's excellent explanation.

If you read the motion papers, ASSET estimation isn't even listed. The focus is entirely on the amount/value of the sexual abuse claims. The proceeding is for an "Estimation of Personal Injury Claims". This has 0 to do with properties.

Yes. Asset valuations. But, that's only half of the equation. This is about valuing the claims, which would inform what's "needed" from those assets to make a deal.

Packs do not have to accept any one who volunteers to be a leader, even if they are a parent or district staff. None of our business, but if someone gave a report to a DE and was not satisfied with result and my opinion was sought... I would suggest reporting to Chartered Organization.

Meetings are the same place and time. Campouts are the same weekend, meet at same place, same time, but 9 out of 12 are different locations. So, adults must choose who to go with.

I agree. Post them here.

Right now that box is "We need cash, now, to pay the sexual abuse settlement, now." The bill is going to come due very soon. What Three Fires Council did when it announced it was selling its camp was to say 1) We are selling the camp now/after Summer 2021. 2) If it sells, all proceeds go to the abuse settlement fund. 3) If it doesn't sell, Three Fires Council will simply transfer the title/deed to the camp to the settlement fund Scouting has the same membership it did in 1941, but the infrastructure (like camps) it did in its heyday, when it had 200-300% MORE MEMBERS t

I have always felt that the very top heavy program structure of the Cub Scouts is the direct problem with the constant decline for scouting at all ages. If the scouts leave at the Cub level, they never get to the older age levels to experience the program. Most of the changes National has done to the Cubs program in the last 30 years added significant burden on pack leaders. Tigers is a killer. It's hard to measure because there weren't any exit polls for families leaving the program. But, for those of us who worked in the weeds of program and recruiting, a story developed. Cubs, more tha

I would add to #4: "and leadership demands for the sake of YP." The increase in cost to run a unit is not merely monetary. The demand of time from adults is higher. This includes need to commit more hours for training, and the need to have two adults (of a minimum age ... and specific sex depending on the type of unit) for every meeting/activity. This is squarely impacting venturing, and indirectly impacting troops depending on how many older youth in the community are thriving in their exploits independent of adults. It probably also impacts potential female cub scouts where only t

Covid is a whole new experience, but in the past scouting families don't come back. However, good marketing can do wonders if this a Covid response. I don't get the feel the public cares much about the law suit, so my gut is Covid just pulled families back from a lot of activities. My neighbor has two scout age boys and the parents pulled them from everything a year ago. We've rarely see them out. Families might be ready to jump into a scouting type program. Great marketing opportunity, but National has never shown themselves to be marketing savvy. Barry

No, that answer has precisely 0% to do with safety it simple says Scouts, BSA is a "youth led program." Program. Let me say it again. PROGRAM. How is my tenting with my son a safety issue? A protection issue? And my S.E. told me "Ask national". And when I emailed I was given the above. When I asked the follow up, the email was ignored/I received NO response. Not a boilerplate response. Not the response you just gave (which is to blow me off and not answer the question). Simply IGNORED. So, as I said, I'll start to believe BSA is serious about Safe Scouting when it

BSA just released updated tool guidelines...finally, some sensible changes... https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/healthsafety/pdf/680-028.pdf?utm_source=scoutingwire&utm_campaign=swvolunteer3172021&utm_medium=email&utm_content=

I don't think it's the only thing left. Now, it is if the only tool they have is to write rules. But maybe they could think a bit wider. Consider my first point way up above: shooting sports, water sports and climbing. Given that those are always popular activities at summer camp maybe we should be doing more of that. I would be willing to get tool certified to both allow my scouts to have more fun and, just as importantly, make the g2ss more realistic so there's less cutting of corners. Now, before you say a certification process is expensive, just make an online training for it. Considering

Er, sorta. Guide to Safe Scouting is a compendium of "SOME Council or SOME camp or National once upon a time got sued for this, therefore we have to ban it." So, while National may trust 90% of units, even 99%, they have written a manual for the "Edge case", that 1% of instances (or even less) where something went wrong and BSA and/or the LC got sued for it. In risk management it is called a high consequence low probability event. And with a scared, panicked, bankrupt National freaking out, all you have to say is "safe scouting" and they'll jam it into Guide to Safe Scoutin

Heaven forbid that there should be any foolishness in scouting. But that is exactly the point. Boys need to have a program where they can act like boys without being called out for it by the women and girls. Boys need to act foolish once in a while. Best that they go out in patrols, deep into the woods, away from all civilizing influences, when they feel the need to act foolish.

BSA needs to separate the bumps, bruises from the serious injuries, death or life long psychological scarring. Laser tag, dodge ball, cordless screw drivers, etc. .... I highly doubt these result in significant injuries. I've seen worse injuries in my Troop from a stick and a pot of boiling water. Equating water guns, paint ball and laser tag to actual guns is weak. I think we can teach gun safety with a .22 riffle while allowing kids to use water guns on a hot day. (Side note ... my mother in law forbid play guns in her house. Her son is now probably the biggest pro NRA gu

The message I am getting here is that we want girls for their membership numbers and money but not because they add anything to the program or because we really want to serve them. It's jaw dropping that this person has no idea how insulting these comments are. However, I take hope in this. God is surely looking out for scouts in some way if no one in the mainstream media has yet reported on this.

File this under PR examples of ""How to Walk Back"

And yet when offered an opportunity to engage within the Service Territory structure (national) and be part of the solution moving forward look at the responses that followed.