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Everything posted by CynicalScouter

  1. Who knows? Same thing with the Catholic Church: the only way to find out is if 1) Those organizations kept a paper trail (as BSA did and Catholic Dioceses in the U.S.) 2) Lawsuits that find abuse cases and/or that paper trail from #1 3) Criminal investigations that find abuse cases and/or that paper trail from #1 4) Government hearings with subpoena or equivalent power (I'm thinking of the 2009 Irish commission on this subject regarding the Catholic Church, although that was criticized as a whitewash by some).
  2. You KNOW that the world's turned upside down when @David COand I agree on something, but we agree on this. BSA couldn't even be bothered to answer ONE question about the SAFETY (not program) need for the YPT policy on adults tenting with their own children.
  3. THAT is my point. THAT is my question. THAT is my concern. I can understand if the statement was "Because Scouting (other than Cubs) is scout-led, scout-focused, and scout-driven, adults should generally not tent with their children." That's a programmatic reason. That is trying to keep Scouts, BSA and the senior-scout programs from becoming Cub Scouts Part 2. I can 100% support that PROGRAMMATICALLY. The problem is that a parent now is BEING THREATENED WITH BEING DECLARED A YOUTH PROTECTION VIOLATOR if they tent with their kid. I went up the chain. Went to my district chai
  4. Globally? Or US? If it was Global, I'd say yeah sure that might even be low. With the U.S.? Gosh, I don't know. I mean maybe? EDIT: Has to be global. I looked at all annual data for the U.S. since the start. Even if you assume a BRAND NEW SET OF SCOUTS EVERY YEAR since 1911, you only get to 270 million.
  5. As I said, when BSA starts to answer questions, then perhaps I'll be inclined to participate and help. But I cannot, in clear conscious and a straight face, help promote Safe Scouting when my own questions don't get answered and my emails don't get returned. It very, very much seems as if engagement means "Do what your told. Don't ask questions. Don't expect answers." EDIT: So I'll ask once again (and if it takes a letter to the bankruptcy court, maybe that is what it takes to get you/BSA to take this seriously). What is the SAFETY reason for not allowing an adult to tent with h
  6. I guarantee what if we filed such a brief a LOT of YP questions would be sorted/resolved right quick because at that point it would be fodder for the abuse claimants to show that BSA doesn't take YP seriously. Of course, as I said, it means the end to not only any plans the scouter has for a future in BSA but their children as well.
  7. This is what blows my mind (not really) Until 2020 and the bankruptcy, by BSA's own admission, direct contact leaders were NOT all YPT trained. They only hit 99.9% in 2020. As recently as 2018 that number was only 67.1%. As for the clarity, I can point to three different items right now on the BSA website regarding two-deep leadership that directly contradict each other, especially in the area of virtual activities, whether or not merit badge counselors are/are not "registered adult leaders" for purposes of two-deep, etc. And when you ask you are either given multiple contr
  8. I have often thought the way to light a fire under National would be to get a group of adult Scouters to file a brief in the bankruptcy court indicating that BSA does NOT take YPT seriously, as indicated by the fact that when we as registered adult leaders ask questions we are given a) multiple answers or b) blown off. Then provide email chains showing/demonstrating this. Of course, any scouter who did that would a) be purged and b) if they had kids in program would see any chance they had a Eagle voided on the spot.
  9. The question came up how can they accommodate religious concerns/objections especially in the context of sexual orientation/identity. I think they can do it using the existing draft that got leaked. There are three places where sexual orientation are discussed Draft Requirement 3 Solution: Discuss with your merit badge counselor how your unit can create the most welcoming environment for every person who wants to be involved with your unit. Tell what more your unit can do to ensure anyone can participate regardless of their ability, ethnicity, faith, financial background
  10. Transcript will not be available until June as Doc. 2407 Why do you ask? Stenographer gets paid. Sending around free copies to all parties and lawyers means $0. So standard practice for courts is for either a) NO free transcripts EVER or b) time delayed.
  11. Even if run out of money is true, that refers (I believe) to BSA cashflow/cash on hand. For example, I could see BSA saying that it ran out of cash on hand in August and then had to stop paying its current bills in order to fund the bankruptcy proceeding had to take out a loan had to sell items NOW to pay for the proceeding. For example, the University of Scouting building gets sold this summer and rather than the proceeds going into some Settlement Fund it now goes direct to pay the legal bills. This is something I plan on asking some bankruptcy lawyers I worked wit
  12. If you read the motion papers, ASSET estimation isn't even listed. The focus is entirely on the amount/value of the sexual abuse claims. The proceeding is for an "Estimation of Personal Injury Claims". This has 0 to do with properties.
  13. If a BSA employee is sexual harassing people, go straight to national.
  14. Yep. Our Life scouts are getting personalized attention to get to Eagle by June.
  15. We told our parents we did not expect BSA to be alive much past the summer. We are hopeful, but we gave people warnings that this was looking pretty bad. The biggest challenge here is that National's not saying a word, Councils are NOT talking much at all (and lately it has been only to say "We are selling the camp", and so all that leaves is guesswork. No one is going to be able to say for sure what PRECISELY is going to happen until after it is all over. That could be months. It could be YEARS.
  16. Right now that box is "We need cash, now, to pay the sexual abuse settlement, now." The bill is going to come due very soon. What Three Fires Council did when it announced it was selling its camp was to say 1) We are selling the camp now/after Summer 2021. 2) If it sells, all proceeds go to the abuse settlement fund. 3) If it doesn't sell, Three Fires Council will simply transfer the title/deed to the camp to the settlement fund Scouting has the same membership it did in 1941, but the infrastructure (like camps) it did in its heyday, when it had 200-300% MORE MEMBERS t
  17. For whom? And some of it we won't know for a long time. This may actually be good for everyone in the sense that there has been $100 MILLION dollars worth of foot-dragging and precisely NOTHING to show for it. A fired up judge practically ORDERING the parties into a locked room (bring a toothbrush) to get things done may be a good thing. Or it may just prove a useless exercise because everyone remains locked into place without more data 1) How many of the 80,000 claims are valid? No idea 2) How much is each claim worth, approximately? No idea 3) What assets does BSA REALLY
  18. Right, the magic math is either 1) Establish all available assets and divided by abuse claimants OR 2) Establish all debt (abuse claims) and then figure out who has to pay what. That's where BSA National, LCs, and insurance companies will start to slit each others throats. For TCC purposes, however, it won't matter. The TCC will have a number and then leave it do BSA, LCs, and the insurance companies to figure it all out.
  19. A) Take ALL 80,000 claims currently pending. B) How much is the AVERAGE cost for each claim going to be? That is going to require the court to go through either a sampling or all claims. Probably just a sampling (e.g. 800 out of 80,000). This will be almost like a mini-trial. Victims may be required to testify. Experts brought in to discuss pain, suffering, loss of income, etc. Multiply A*B = How much needs to go into the Settlement Fund when all this is over. Then the next part: who pays for what parts of that number. BSA? Local Council? COs? Insurance companies? THAT comes lat
  20. I have no idea because the only people with access were Council Key-3. But as was described to me by our Key-3 in a Council Zoom town hall, and confirmed in conversations I had with a friend in the "next door" council where it was called an "Algorithm" Number of claims * Average claim cost * How likely are those claims going to showing up in a courtroom (Statute of Limitations, likelihood that all claims will convert to lawsuits) = Total amount due. Then there was an adjustment to consider the fourth variable: what assets does the Council have to offer? The big confusion was th
  21. Might have a point there. From 1989 to 2019, Cubs dropped 45% from 2,155,976 to 1,176,119. Boy Scouts/Scouts, BSA dropped "only" 21% (1,007,871 vs. 798,516)
  22. There was a formula circulated by the Ad Hoc Committee at least as early as last fall to all LCs. It was suppose to let LCs know that if they WANTED to VOLUNTARILY participate and get all abuse claims in their councils closed, they had to just plug in some numbers and out would come an answer. Now, however, a lot of those councils are starting to realize (or perhaps be told, who knows) that it is "voluntary" but if they don't BSA will NOT be able to come out of bankruptcy and LCs are on next on the menu (there's already 870 suits). As you've described it, this is the "missiles are se
  23. Ah ok, yeah. I've already said there are three options. Chapter 7 is just one of the options if no settlement happens. Option 1) A failed bankruptcy. BSA emerges with no reorg plan and immediately faces at LEAST 800 already filed lawsuits, plus thousands more. Spends the next decade making individual settlements. Past a certain point BSA goes back into either Chapter 11 or Chapter 7. Option 2) A Chapter 7 liquidation. As noted elsewhere, because BSA is a not for profit, it cannot be forced by the judge or creditors into liquidation: it has to select this for itself. Option 3) A
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