RichardB

If you opt out or have a bad email (or block email.scoutingwire.org) you wont get Scouting Wire.

@Eagle94-A1 was no change in policy. More effective communication would be my analysis. Et al, do you really want to have a definition of overnight in Pack Overnighters? Asking for a friend. Just saying, on one hand, this thread says national changes the rules, on the other a call for more definition. Which is it? RichardB

To the best of my knowledge there has been no policy change related to Cub camping. Cub "overnight" camping by program design is limited to Council Organized Family Camps OR Pack Overnighters (At Council appraised and designated locations). BALOO training covers this. There is a requirement for BALOO trained leaders on Cub campouts. Have you been to BALOO? Did the course follow the syllabus? Webelos may camp as a den outside the Pack structure. If the Scouts BSA Camporee is being run / conducted as designed, it would not be age appropriate for Cubs to do anything but observe. Again, this is not a change. Source: https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss03/ - which has been previously linked but you all might wish to review again. Please do not put yourself or youth at risk. RichardB

Some recently launched Cub Scout resources: https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/preview-adventures/ https://www.scouting.org/programs/cub-scouts/preview-adventures/protect-yourself-rules/

@PACAN I'd call your attention to the actual document you quoted as an incident review it's not a compliance document, just pointing out what a safe surface consists of. Since this obviously has moved you to action, we encourage you to share these lessons within your area of influence. They are just one of the many tools offered to get the word out about safety of participants in the Scouting program.

@Eagle94-A1 nice catch on the publications. The offending file you identified has been terminated. Thanks.

Just because you saw it on FB (most likely Talk about Scouting) doesn't mean it makes sense. The pit sits on top of the mulch or sand right base. Good to know we have folks quoting 1920's literature. Back in those days Scoutmasters were licensed to teach what was in the handbook. No more, no less. Times were simple back then. Was also about the time camp standards came into play.

And the FAQ's that go with the above - suggest you review as well. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/prohibited-activities-faqs/

https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/toc/ has been updated. August Activity Planning and Risk Assessment Added Prohibited Activities section to replace Unauthorized and Restricted Activities section. https://www.scouting.org/health-and-safety/gss/gss07/#b is the direct link to the revised section. Please note the hosted pdf will be updated on or about 10/1. RichardB

You all might want to read up to give you a little more background on PTC history and impact. https://www.amazon.com/Other-Side-Road-Philmont-Training/dp/1427643792

@John-in-KC should probably worry, because I'm totally aligned with him on his last comment. It really would be good to understand what is being offered before you comment. My kiddos really enjoyed the training center family program, including the excursions into the backcountry and the living history of the area. I would certainly recommend taking advantage of the Family Adventure Camp next summer if you and your family need to get away. You don't have to take a class, you can just enjoy the programs offered.

@John-in-KC Mafia is for folks north of the Red River....... Anyway, Scouting participants don't need to be in the occupational world, there is however a subsidiary called Learning for Life that has a Career Exploring program.....https://www.exploring.org/ There are a couple of tools for service projects already available to help plan. Service Project Planning Guidelines, No. 680-027 A checklist to help you plan that next service project. Includes reference to the Age Guidelines for Tool Use and Work at Elevations or Excavations below. Age Guidelines for Tool Use and Work at Elevations or Excavations, No. 680-028 An at-a-glance reference for service projects. The use of tools, by any youth or adult, requires training in the proper use of those tools before a project starts. It also requires continuous, qualified adult supervision and discipline during the project. Manufacturers’ literature and age and skill restrictions shall supersede the recommendations in the publication. If there is a conflict, leaders shall follow the most restrictive guidelines. Another good reference that contains state-specific guidance is www.youthrules.gov . Currently looking at revisions to the above, if you have constructive comments or mark ups feel free to send them to the health.safety@scouting.org mailbox if you would like them considered.

@Eagledad there are several examples in current posts talking about what has happened when supervision wasn't present. And yes, you always have a choice on how you will react or respond.

@Parkman @walk in the woods just a couple of questions / thoughts. First, is there a market for a youth serving organization to place kids outdoors without supervision? What would that look like? Do you anticipate Mom is going to run out and sign up Timmy or Tammy to pay for this as a service? What are the expected outcomes? Second, perhaps instead of blaming youth serving organizations for taking a stand on supervision as a core requirement / expectation - might reflect on how that came to be (study history, delivery methods, failure modes). Third, aren't organizations now held to a higher standard of care when other peoples kids are involved? Even the example given above, the parents have had the authorities in their life on more than one occasion on how they treated their own kids. How many volunteers that you know would want to weather that storm? Again, this won't work within the BSA structure. But let us know how it goes with your kids.