Leaderboard

The same reporter broke the news of the Girl Scout letter back to the BSA. She has a source. What I learned is that BSa leadership are clearly struggling with how to create a Boy Scout level parallel program and read scouter.com. *whistles quietly* *opens profile* *changes location to Alaska*

I don’t trust Buzzfeed - period. Even if this article is fabricated, Surbaugh is still “deceptive and sleazy” (their words) for the manipulative survey deployed last summer to create a pretext of support for their predetermined outcome. Whether or not the article is factual, it is obvious that BSA execs are scrambling. I find it appalling for them to announce an older girl program when they have no idea what it will actually look like. Why the rush to ram through something that hasn’t even been defined yet? It all smacks of (financial) desperation.

Venturing.

Somewhere a member of the G2SS police is losing their mind.

You must be in my district.

Comedy Central, The Onion, Mad Magazine, and Scouter.com

Week 1 We are up to 9 girls now, 4 Lions, 1 Tiger and 4 Bears. The Troop has caused some issues with the charter renewal so we haven’t been able to sign up online yet... should be fixed by next week. We expect a few more Tigers to join as well. A couple of the parents are interested in becoming den leaders. One is a current GSUSA leader and the other an Eagle Scout and former scout leader. We have den meetings set up and several of the girls will be part of our upcoming PWD. We haven’t figured out the Be A scout flag and our DE told us not to worry about it. In our

That's just it, I don't think the families want to join. Most parents now a days want to drop their kids off at one spot and pick them up later. This is where I think Scouting is making a huge mistake. For every one family that joins en masse, I think you will get 4-5 that just sign all their kids up and drop them off like it's day care. We already see enough of that now. Parents park their kids at Cubs or Boy Scouts and drive off, only to come back (late) to the meeting to pick them up.

Remember, lemons can be made into many tasty things as well as useful options such as air fresheners. So too can poorly designed programs, especially if done by those closest to the action.

Absolutely. Like "Why OA?" ... It should be about more than elections and ceremonies.

When the OA comes to do our AofL crossovers, it's a very meaningful and impressive event. The lights are dimmed, and a large, deep drum starts beating slowly as OA members walk in to the room in full Native American regalia. Then one begins to tell the legend of the Arrow of Light and the young brave who led his tribe out of darkness with his arrows (I can't remember enough of the details to retell it here), and then he calls out the names of the boys who have achieved the rank of AofL. The boys are charged to live the Oath and Law and the Outdoor Code, then their parents are called up so

After reading the articles some of the comments seem like it was paraphrased from discourse on Scouter.com. That said I suspect IF there is a 'rambling' email it WILL get out. (I doubt anyone outside this Forum will care that much) The President of the United States cannot stop leaks so why the BSA CSE. I agree that Surbaugh keeps trying to please all people...not possible. It is (predictably) becoming a mess and a preventable one at that.

As it pertains to fake news, pro vs con is irrelevant. "Eyeballs" is all that matters and so far, it has succeeded in that goal. I don't know if it is fake or not but it is loaded with enough drama that regardless of your opinion of the changes, it is likely to be clicked on and read.

These quotes (if accurate) fill me with confidence "What will we recommend?" Surbaugh wrote. "Frankly, I'm not sure." "And, don’t even get me started on all the abuse I get from those who don’t like any of this because it’s not fully co-ed," Surbaugh wrote. "Any miscellaneous garbage that comes out of this office will 'face the wrath of the dark side of the force,''' he wrote. Also...the "family" things rears it's ugly head again gave an option for members to choose a "family troop" that would contain both all-boy patrols and all-girl patrols.

As much as you may want to believe the content of this article, Buzzfeed's veracity and journalistic integrity is seriously in doubt.

We must strive when we disagree not to be disagreeable. (working on that...)

Teach the parents about the importance of the patrol method and how it benefits their boys. Alternatively, quit if you don't want to run a program like that. I know if my troop becomes family camping I'm out.

I have an opinion but given some of the reactions I suppose a little self censorship would be appreciated.

With my troop, that is why call the whitewater trek a "family camp out with each family responsible for themselves," so they can do Class IV rapids. HEHEHEHEHE. That's why my middle son is pushing hard to get First Class ASAP, as well as working out. He wants to go on the AT this year after doing the 18 mile prep trip with his brother last year. Only reason why he couldn't go last year was he wasn't First Class in time.

I suspect the increase "skin in the game" will go something like this: Scouting has been playing up the "family Scouting" angle. Units that have a more traditional Scouting program will feel pressure to have more "inclusive" programs and events. Simply said, less backpacking, more plop camping. Parents may treat troop committee meetings more like pack committee meetings, where they (mistakenly) think that the committee drives what the boys (troop) do. The parents will push their kids to have their (family Scouting) voice heard, or will volunteer as leaders and attempt t

So you are basing your whole opinion on your personal approach to your sons program. I have dozens of parent discussions stories where I, as the SM, had to draw a line in sand to enforce the direction of the program as long as I was the SM. I have seen parents join the committee because they assumed it give them more stature to push change over the SM. You only need to go back to helicopter parent discussions to understand the struggle of keeping a program on track. Adding "family" into the program gives other members of the "family" a lot more power to suggest changes. It's not a theory,

It's inevitable. The motivation to put your son into a program for building character is different than what ever motivation for the whole family joining. There are plenty of helicopter parent stories to support that reasoning. Barry

Yes. For both.

Yeah, a 3million dollar compensated unpaid volunteer

The old fans have dropped thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars on the property... tossing them away like rubbish is a rather distasteful business move. But hey, this is the company that has basically tossed it's creator, Walt Disney, into the same rubbish bin. The real question is, will the new fans hold onto Star Wars with endearment for 30+ years and also spend that money, or will they, like just about everything else in culture today, enjoy it for about 5 minutes and then move onto the next thing.

(Once again) our Lodge ceremonies has the approval (and over-view) of representatives of the Seminole tribe. Are they authentic? I grew up near a Seminole reservation and I think kinda. Boring too. I have seen some lodge patches and dance attire that is more of the "Chief Knock-a-Homa" variety and it is a bit cringeworthy. I think National OA should start making Lodges adopt some sort of accuracy and communication with tribes. Some OA members are really into it but I think it is an aging minority...I just think if they are gonna do it do it right. I also think OA has bigger id

Give the guy a break, Mr. Surbaugh is an upaid volunteer.

IMHO the debate on "should it be a sensitive topic" is separate. It's too late. There are groups waiting to pick fights. OA members (new and old) already cringe thinking "is this in bad taste?" "Will I be accused of being a bigot?" I think it's best if OA drops the Indian mystic. It can offend people and it is a sensitive topic. Plus scouts are elected because of their example. Inserting them into a different folklore is a distraction. IMHO, it's best to stick to be heart of the idea. We serve. We help others. We share fellowship. The rest is a distraction. Sadly, I do th

None at this point, but will watch for this. Our attrition rate has been fairly low so increases should be apparent. That said, no family has complained. I think the separate dens help during the transition plus girls have unofficial been tagging along for years so seeing them around won’t be a big change. Having them attend overnights and participate in meetings will be new and will watch for friction.

Wow. I don't trust Buzzfeed much, but if this is true. That being said, I honestly think it's fake. The grammar and word choice seem very off for a Corporate executive, even in an informal email. Buzzfeed is clickbait journalism. It was "fake news" before there was fake news. If this is true, it's greatly discouraging. I've edited this post so there are less "quotes from BSA members" to be put in a "BSA members aghast at CSE email."

or maybe the BSA will license these biodegradable paper turtle urns. http://www.passagesinternational.com/biodegradable-urns/water-urns/biodegradable-turtles

An update on this.... Last night at scouts I asked my 11 year old if she would like to be a PL, explaining that the PLC had selected her but I wanted to speak to her personally about it. She was a bit shocked and flattered. Clearly a bit daunted about taking it on but said she'd chew it over and let me know.

The Boy Scouts of America are becoming "family friendly" (a huge mistake) and the troop in question is being overrun by parents who don't value the patrol method. What is the solution?

Thanks! Thanks

It's times like these that make me grateful my CO is sticking to boy-only Cub Scouting, lol.

Oh no! That would be tragic; my boys LOVE when the OA comes all decked out in full regalia for their Arrow of Light ceremonies! I note however the use of the word rumor ... I hope that is just the case here. So many stories get bandied about here sometimes, one can only hope this is one of those times when the tale proves to be unfounded. Luckily the majority of my current crop o' boys will be getting their A'sofL before NOAC!

In this instance it may be because the incoming "families" want more activities that everyone can do. Ever see an 11 year old with a 35lb pack go on a 20 miler? Me neither. Or what about if they want to go caving? Only the older Scouts can go. Opps, nope, now you can't do that because the younger Scouts are left out. Same with water treks above Class III, certain climbing activities and a few other things. Does this already happen in some units? Sure. But I believe the "family camping" will precipitate this even more. There will be pressure to have events and activities the whole fam

As I mentioned a couple months ago, the number one topic of a couple SMs I ran into was helicopter parenting. I believe the term "family scouting" in of itself will give parents more power to control the whole program. How could it not. It's one thing for a SM to tell a parent that the SM directs the program, not the parents. Now parents will feel they have more skin in the game. It's our human nature. It's inevitable. Barry

Yes, setting boundaries is a problem with this troop IMHO. part of it is that when the troop was dying, The SM and a MC would be the 2 adults. Problem was that sometimes a daughter or grandson would show up. and even before that, the troop did a yearly whitewater family trip. Then after the troop as resurrected, at one time there was not enough adults involved. So the current SM would at times have to bring his daughter when he had her that weekend. No one sees the problem with with that. When I brought it up once before, I got nailed by multiple parties. Since I had bigger things to deal with

I think the thread manipulation (spin offs, close outs, deletions) seem to be getting out of hand. I know things meander off course but now things read more fragmented than before...natural conversations seem to wander off course. I can see Moderator intervention if folks are getting kinda rude but is kinda taking the fun of the forum...you know the whole Campfire metaphor. That is my two cents.

Note to self: NEVER lend out my SMHB 3rd ed Vols 1 and 2. It won't come back home. What I find interesting about these pics is that BSA is now promoting the Troop Program Features, where instruction is divided into 3 ability groups. Grant you, my old troop used WOODS WISDOM, as a basis for our meeting plans, but taught by patrols. PLs, knowledgeable Scouts in the patrol, but most often older Scouts in the Leadership Corps did the instruction.

But you should only be stored in there after being cleaned via the 3 pot method...

Carpentry Merit Badge- (a) "make, with your leaders permission, a casket for your Scoutmaster or other adult leader. Demonstrate how you measured leader and planned dimensions to fit. If appropriate use hand tools to avoid violating Guide to Safe Scouting guidelines." (b) If appropriate if hunting a white whale casket may be nailed and sealed with pitch for emergency flotation device"

@sst3rd, No I have not heard anything like this. My chapter’s Ceremonies Team continues to use regalia, and to the best of my knowledge, the other chapters do as well.

While we online Scouters gripe, gripe, gripe about a gradual sense of erosion of the traditional program I think what we are about to experience is that 'tilting point' where there is a sudden and drastic change is the sustainability and viability of BSA National. It is not too big to fail or too historic an institution to go away. You can sense we are quickly approaching some sort of crisis point. That said I think, again, Scouting as an ideal will continue without all the ScoutStuffs, Summits, and executive boards. Maybe (to use a religious example) the difference between a large centr

Well, I would not be so quick to discount the topic of "collapse". Successful businesses cannot offer low pay, poor benefits, long work hours and a despicably poor work-life ratio. There are a myriad of studies to show that companies that *do* engage such practices have an enormously high attrition rate. When you couple a high attrition rate with poor workplace training, low-quality information systems, bad communication and workplace processes, you end up with a continuing spiral of lower and lower quality in job performance because you lose institution knowledge and don't have processes

As a former pro, I can concur with all of that. In fact I would not recommend the job to anyone. Before I became a pro, I asked a well respected Scouter if I could use him as a reference. He said, "sure, no problem. What's the job you're going for?" When I said to be a DE, his immediate response was " HELL NO! HAVE YOU LOST YOUR [expletive deleted] MIND? ARE YOU INSANE?" He then went on about all the stress DEs face, said he could not do that to me, and would not be a reference. Part of me wishes I would have listened. Worse job ever. Part of me is glad because the best thing out moving

Back in the 1980s, some research was done on why Scouts stay involved. One of the things the survey harped on was If a Scout gets First Class in the 12 Months, they tend to stay, Hence "OPERATION FIRST CLASS" as it was called in 1989. What the study didn't address was how active was the units these Scouts were in. I hate to say it, but IMHO "OPERATION FIRST CLASS" was one of the things that has led to the "One and Done" and "pencil whipping" that I see more and more of.

To me, it would make more sense if the red vs green were indeed opposites. If green = posts which one agrees, likes or finds helpful, the red should = posts which one disagrees, dislikes or does not find helpful. The means for reporting a post as malicious, off-topic or spam should be the "report" button. How you describe the current set up, it invites confusion and inappropriate (by your definition) use. Also it makes the "report" button redundant. My 2c.