Leaderboard

Agreed. To clarify: when two layers of an organization, whatever we wish to label them, engage in one-way communication, show a lack of interest in feedback, publish policies that constrain units, and demonstrate little empathy for unit challenges...I'd hardly call this a culture of "service."

Personally...will hike off into the sunset remembering the good times, content I provided the best program I was able to for the youth in the local unit.

From my observation/conversations, folks aren't thinking about leaving solely because of the fee increase. The increase is the proverbial straw. They are tired and worn out. I think many scouters can handle changes and challenges. What they are tired of is the continual red tape from National and inefficiency and/or indifference from their local council. Being a scout leader has always been challenging. But it seems to me that more than ever, National and local councils ignoring the needs of unit scouters. It's assumed unit scouters will just salute and accept whatever ridiculous n

I was wondering about the author's tone of amazement, then he got down to his scouting experience: It breaks my heart every time I hear of adults sacrificing the promise of scouting on the idols of lossless hikes and perfect meals.

I spoke with my attorney and he told me that this document is too broad and open ended. I am ok with criminal background checks but this appears to be an agreement allowing the BSA and their employees to look into every aspect and area of my private life (my attorney agrees). I plan to make several pen changes, and have that form notarized before turning it in. I also dont like the idea of them sharing information. I'm a retired Marine and law enforcement officer and held a final top secret security clearance so clearly I have nothing to hide. But I dont think that the BSA should have acces

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

aka, "servant leadership".

Let's say you really have a kid who wants to do scouting, and you think scouting is valuable, "Scouting" as in the whole broad Scout Movement. Choice comes down to do we quit scouting entirely? (I hope not) or do we see which scouting organization will best help us provide a good scouting experience for the youth? Depending on where you are, and who, locally, is involved with what scouting organization, it might be: the Hungarian scouts (there are some around here), BPSA, AHG, GSUSA, BSA, Trail Life, Campfire, . . .

Agreed. I would get tired and worn out doing any scouting program, no matter what organization it is. But the constant bs from National and Council is sometimes overwhelming.

I wish there was a clearing house of background checks that organizations could subscribe as a member. I swear there was one year I had five organizations run background checks ... work, school, multiple volunteer organizations, etc. It added no value to the purpose of the organizations, but it added alot of cost. We need something like a LinkedIn for background checks.

Where I believe a fee increase will hurt the BSA harder is the cub program. Parents coming in at the Tiger and Wolf ages are hit with a lot of youth programs. Raising the cost is adding one more consideration. Barry

"The best way to learn how to not get lost is to let yourself get a little lost once in a while. " Nice story about scouts leading and adults stepping back. https://highlandscurrent.org/2019/10/15/out-there-and-the-teens-shall-lead/

Ah! An Oklahoma fan. Well said. Barry

It's like I'm one of a set of evil triplets! I was in the Flaming Arrow patrol! And, being more lark than owl, I got up before dawn and restarted the campfire. It was really endearing to my heart when on a crew campout, I woke up early, peeked out of my tent, looked across the field, and saw my daughter and her friend and a campfire coming to light between them.

No SE, national or council wide should see a raise or bonus for this year or the next till everyone sees how it all plays out. Its reminiscent of the government bailout of 2008 where we footed the bill but the big wig CEO's of those companies still got bonuses and came out smelling like a rose but their company and employees took the brunt of the mess. If our troop camps every month next year and my son and I both go it would cost me about $600 for just for the food costs. Depending on where we camp if there are fees. It will be more. Then you have our current monthly dues of $10

Not trying to start rumors and cause issues, but... If the BSA fee got too high for you to pay, what would you do? Quit altogether, find another program? Try to move your whole group to another program? Just curious if anyone has gotten that far yet in the "what if" scenario. Be Prepared...

I have been very impressed with the Lithuanian Scouts Association in the Boston area . I believe they have enclaves in Chicago and a couple other US cities. Update 5/16/2020: https://lituanica.us/ Lituanicos Tuntas serves the Lithuanian Boy Scouts in the Chicagoland Area. We are chartered BSA Troop 113 of the Tall Grass District in the Pathway to Adventure Council. Our base is at the Lithuanian World Center in Lemont, Illinois.

If the fee reaches a point where I feel its not something my family can afford I will just teach my kids the skills at home. We live in the country and can shoot BBs guns and archery in the yard There is a state park within 30 minutes where we can fish without a license. There are numerous places we can hike and camp. Opportunities abound in our town for community service. For that matter, what's keeping me from telling some folks I know we might be going on a nature hike on so and so day, maybe we will see them there. Wink wink nudge nudge. There is a lot that can be done just maybe ca

I agree 'scholarships' don't always work well. For anyone who really wants to stay but will find a fee increase a financial hardship, I wonder if you could find a way to reach out to scouting alumni in your area and ask for sponsorships? Or instead of a unit asking for dollars to be donated to an anonymous scout fund, maybe you could ask for sponsorship of individual scout registrations? A unit could ask to have a tree put up in town hall or home depot or the feed store or someplace that has supported scouts with Please Sign Me Up! cards for Scout J, Scout R, Scout B...

My local Trail Life troop doesn't seem that much different than BSA in function. (To be honest, it was previously a BSA troop and pack. I can see that affecting their program.) The troop charges $50/yr. in dues plus camping expenses. Officially, you have to be trinitarian christian to join as an adult but all youth are welcome. Unofficially, I don't think this troop is too much of a stickler on the triune detail. I've tried to visit my local BPSA group a few times, but no luck. I think this particular unit might be foundering.

The elephant in the room is that the organizational structure of National/Council/ Units isn't working. National seems oblivious to this and isn't doing anything to address it. That's my biggest concern out of this whole mess. The organization will only continue to be dysfunctional no matter what we do or how much money we charge until that is addressed. It makes me think that the only way to refocus the organization -- and the best thing to do for the future of scouting -- is to stop subsidizing it until they are forced to self examine.

One problem with all this background checking is that many of these checks are done on the cheap. I have a friend that was given a copy of his background check when he started a new job. There wasn't anything bad in the check, but it clearly wasn't him (he never lived in Nevada for example, but he did live in Boston for years which wasn't mentioned) even though his name was on it. That is why most states require potential employers to provide a copy of any background check too you so you can check it for errors. I have another friend that used to carry a laminated letter from the local sh

@ParkMan, what National and councils are supposed to do and what they actually do are sometimes two different things....

I think a lot about the movie "Follow Me Boys". Whether it was historically accurate or not, it reminds me that Scouting is really about the youth experience. When I was a kid, I knew councils & national existed - but they were irrelevant to me. In my decade Scouting, most of it has been as either a Cubmaster or Troop Committee Chair. In those experiences, I've never really worried about what the council or national thinks or wants. Both of those groups are really just here to provide me support as I run my program. I want to write a sticky post for this forum that says "Re

While I am fine with that, it takes adults to run that, especially at the Cub level. Most of my parents are have Fundraiser fatigue (we had 4 this year)

I know not quite the question you're asking, but... I'd plan a fundraiser. Even if the BSA fees doubled (or tripled), I think it is still payable. I also do not think the services of the BSA national organization warrant such a fee. However, I think that the overall value I get from being involved with the BSA is significant. I think it will be a harder to recruit into these other organizations and question their ability to provide a similar level of infrastructure to the youth I serve. So while they me be more economical, I don't think I'd jump over the amounts being discussed.

"Where would you go?" I actually thought about this a good bit, pre-2017, in relation to where would I go if I left GSUSA. And I read about BPSA and AHG. These organizations had, in my mind, two or three very very big drawbacks. (1) lack of good camps in the vicinity of where I live -- this area is rather built up and the scouts (both BSA and GSUSA) have owned properties for years which have remained relatively undeveloped and available for nearby camping, while suburbia has swallowed up a lot of land. (2) lack of existing units in the area. While the program materia

On a practical level, for me, a fee increase means postponing some gear purchase. Not a big deal. On a troop level, I think that's the same thing. But, if not ... TL/USA has delivered the promise of scouting to my young relatives. Not sure about their price structure. BPSA looks good on paper. Never camped with one in person. Campfire was very good to my Aunt ... nearly a century after she participated. That should count for something. There will always be youth who want to camp and hike independently with their mates. It's only a matter of who will lead them.

Who would have thought that not following scouts was unusual. Tell your scoutmaster that just like the scouts have to learn to make good decisions, adults have to learn how to stand back. It takes practice. Reminds me of a parent waiting to ask me a question after a troop meeting. At least a half of dozen scouts swarmed me, each needing to ask me their important question. The adult finally slotted in and asked me how I manage to respectably give each scout his time in the middle of the chaos. My quick answer delivered with a laugh was "Practice". The adult leader job in a troop

I was thinking more Dolphins 😋

My but I love an optimist!

Good luck with that

While the idea would at one time likely been helpful, today, as someone else pointed out, would likely just draw the bullies to the scout. And we do not need more reasons for boys to shy away from the program. It is different when they are in public together or with adults, but in the school, it might be really difficult for many. Reflecting on the truth in society in this country.

The cost just to be counted as a "Scout" or "Scouter" at $100 I do see as a deal breaker for some for sure. We've been discussing in our TC the ramifications- we'd love to offer assistance to families if indeed it is that big of a jump, but short of rolling in more fund-raising there's a limit of what we can offer. Our CO is tapped. We don't want to have fund-raising to start to overtake time spent on activities. In my view, the community is pretty tapped on those peddling to them. As we have historically covered the cost of registered adults, this could be a big jump to our budget, and I

I can not speak for everyone, but $100 recharter fee is a deal breaker for me, I have a Bear, I have a daughter who I am working on creating a Scouts BSA Troop in town, I am a leader as is my wife. We are not paying $400 a year just to send to National.

I don't agree with the idea that $1000/year is still a great deal. It may be a great deal for those kids that are on crazy competitive soccer, or marching band, or mill your own robot parts. The parents of these kids can more easily afford this. But scouting is supposed to be for all kids. In the land of under employed, $1000/year is still a lot of money. Sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better. Maybe it would be better if the BSA just filed chapter 11 now. I'm optimistic enough about scouting that something good will come up from the ashes. Again, the problem isn't scouting.

When you were a new scout, you had to explain to your Scoutmaster or ASM why patrols eat together. Do you remember that conversation? Have you ever thought about it since then? When we eat together as a patrol, we unite as a team and a family. We learn to rely on each other and trust each other not to always burn all of the pancakes. When we eat together, we talk, we laugh, we share stories and we know that we belong. All of us like junk food, but we all know it's not good for us and we can't live on junk food alone. When we get together as a patrol to plan our meals, we talk abo

Uh oh.... 😬

Then speak on letting the scouts make the decisions of the tools they have and the tools they develop. But don't say "no tools". Some tools are very good. I found in the NYLT that 80% of troops did not use a pre-meeting agenda for their PLC meetings. Have you ever watched an SPL run a meeting without an agenda. Worse, have you ever watched an SPL run a meeting without an agenda and the SM standing behind him? How can the SPL learn to run a meeting if he has to turn to the SM every time he needs move to go to the next item? Even the SPL Handbook encourages meeting agendas. The participants

I reiterate my previous opinion. This is NOT a PLC decision, but one that should be made at the Patrol level. Each patrol needs to decide how their patrol will operate during patrol meetings/activities. The PLC should be a place where the PLs can report on their progress as a patrol, seek advice from other PLs and make TROOP level decisions. The PLC should not dictate how a patrol decides to operate.