Jump to content


Popular Content

Showing content with the highest reputation on 01/15/18 in all areas

  1. 3 points
    We use one cabin for a winter camp-in that has only one large room, probably holding 50 people. There are no accommodations for separate adult and youth. We do keep the adults in one corner. I can't see a YPT violation since there was no one on one contact, no tent situation. I'd be careful about reporting this and possibly ruining the adult's reputation and future for an innocent situation.
  2. 2 points
    This can be found in the 2015 printing of the Guide to Safe Scouting but is no longer listed in the 2017 printing... "Single-room or dormitory-type accommodations for Scouting units: Adults and youths of the same gender may occupy dormitory or singleroom accommodations, provided there is a minimum of two adults and four youths. A minimum of one of the adults is required to be Youth Protection– trained. Adults must establish separation barriers or privacy zones such as a temporary blanket or a sheet wall in order to keep their sleeping area and dressing area separated from the youth area."
  3. 2 points
    Well, we got through the "golden age" without the phrase "servant leadership" but I don't think the concept is all that different.
  4. 2 points
    Do note that the latest Handbook says a troop is "made up of patrols." That is a profound statement IF understood. As for "servant leadership," a concept hardly explained by BSA, we somehow got through the Golden Age of Scouting without it. The admonition to the leaders (by which I habitually mean Scouts) was "take care of the Scouts in your patrol/troop." "Boss" was an insult. "Bossy" was worse. "but how are the other members of your patrol doing?" was the question. The "Kinds of Patrols" language, so loved by National, is unnecessary and can be misleading. "A group of friends" can hardly be improved upon.
  5. 2 points
    @blw2 I’m a member of several Reddit groups and keeping on point is most critical (at least for me) on non political threads. For example, if you start a thread on ideal process to change brake pads on a 1997 Porsche 911 Turbo and someone starts discussing why you can run 13,000 miles between oil changes on a 2015 VW Passat it is not helpful. First, those who are interested in VW Passat’s oil change interval will almost never find that interesting discussion buried in the original topic and second those interested in brake pads on a 911 Turbo now have to read through ramblings on VW. I would agrue the same applies for many threads here. If someone starts a thread for SPL on smaller Troops it would be best to keep it focused for both short term and long term (those that search threads in future). I think our mods do a pretty good job of balancing flow of conversation and keeping on topic
  6. 2 points
  7. 2 points
    @Eagle94-A1 got it. My parents stayed out of my way and let me succeed and fail in my own and I learned so much. A few of my friends had a lot of help from their parents and they are less able all around.
  8. 1 point
    Many Eagles, to be conservative, have not experienced the Patrol Method. In my council, we find in every survey for decades, that the majority of PLs and SPLs are appointed by adults, experience primarily or entirely program planned by adults, and have had little to no opportunity to lead. As I have trained Eagles in Wood Badge who had taken no formal training whatsoever as adults, I can attest to their greater than average knowledge of Scouting, but they could neither define the Patrol Method, a state they share with most Council and National Council employees, nor explain the Aims and Methods of Scouting. They would possibly have been more ahead of the curve in one of the first two versions of Wood Badge, where Scoutcraft was relevant.
  9. 1 point
    Seeing how as the Patrol is the fundamental unit of Scouting, that the Patrol Method is the only method and that today in Scouting we do not see patrol method being used enough or very well, I thought I would start a thread on Best Practices. Not just how to define what patrol method is, but what adult leaders can do, and maybe more importantly what they should NOT do in order to create an environment where a true boy-led patrol method environment takes hold. I'll start with a few: A gang of boys, friends, with common goals and interest, that work together to have fun and accomplish their goals. To use current vernacular, I see patrols as self-organizing and self-directing. Self-organizing in the sense that I don't think adults should assign boys to patrols except in rare circumstances. They boys need to figure out their won patrols, who they want to hang out with. The boys pick their own leaders and for how long. Self-directed meaning they make their own plans about what they want to do, what is important to them. They decide how they are going to make their Scouting experience fun. They divvy up responsibilities how they see fit. They fix their own problems. They put their own plans into action and ask for adult help when needed to accomplish that. Adults step in when asked, when safety is an issue or when a youth cannot accomplish the task, (like driving them somewhere, or signing waivers, permission forms and contracts). Adults coach from the sidelines, one-on-one (staying with-in YP guidelines) and discretely. More importantly adults lead by example. I make it a point to ask PL if I can speak if I feel the need. When I am done, I thank the PL for allowing me to speak to HIS patrol. This way they boys know it is their patrol, not mine, and the the PL they selected in charge, not me. Please add you thoughts. The best way to help spread patrol method is to talk about it so others see the example.
  10. 1 point
    You misunderstood what TAHAWK wrote... a rose by any other name... was his point.
  11. 1 point
    Exactly so. No need to get hung up about labels when the ideas are the same. "Explain; teach; application phase" is EDGE. Not to mention "Communicating" vs "Communication."
  12. 1 point
    Also keep in mind that this is a "reality show" (or at least it looks like one, I've never seen it) so it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with actual reality.
  13. 1 point
    There's no college worth going to that would care about someone who has two of the same thing. Especially, if the effort in one could be used toward completing the other.
  14. 1 point
    Again this is where we part ways. Firstly, I've never met a Venturer - at least one who was never a Boy Scout - who would want to work toward Eagle. The lion share don't want to work toward any recognition - a big problem with the program. The ones who do want to be recognized, want to be recognized for earning their award (be it Silver or Summit) that already has an Eagle on the device. IMHO, NESA needs to either broaden its scope or go away. We have created an class of boys who are actually deluded into thinking that their rank is better than Venturing and Sea Scout awards -- (pardon the report from boots on the ground). I would not ask anyone to join a troop merely for rank advancement. I certainly would not give any venturer of mine up to a troop so they can earn an award attained by 7% of Boy Scouts instead of an award attained by mere fractions of a percent of Venturers. And I certainly would not approve the application of any Venturing female who things that by signing on this year she may count it as tenure in a troop next year!
  15. 1 point
    Was this a violation of the Two Deep Leadership policy? No - There were three adults on this outing. Was this a violation of the No One-On-One policy? No - There were multiple scouts in the room. Was this a violation of the Youth Privacy policy? Maybe - Older versions of the YP policy mention placing blankets or some sort of divider between adults and youth when using the same room. I don't see that in the current version. All I see now is mention of a clothes changing area. I would think that the scouts sleeping in the main area would need a designated changing area somewhere other than the main room since the main room would be used by all people.
  16. 1 point
    A few thoughts 1) camping 300 feet away from other patrols and adults. That way are close enough in an emergency, but far enough away to be independent 2) Adults don't interfere except for safety 2a) Adults make sure it's a true emergency. Had an incident where one ASM jumped on a Scout's case because he thought the Scout was playing with fire, when he was cooking his meal over an open flame. 3) Let the Scouts make any rules like " no consecutive terms," have to be X rank for PL, SPL, etc. 4) Don't tell Scouts who to vote for. Yes, heard about that one twice now. Once for OA elections, once for troop elections. 5) LET THEM FAIL!!!!!! "The best teacher, failure is."
  17. 1 point
    He will certainly have a reputation as a scoff-law. I have a reputation of letting youth hike on their own for hours and camp a ball-field's throw from me in wilderness recreation areas. Those things don't sit well with parents of younger scouts. It might mean that certain leaders won't be first on the list for certain activities. But, if those are honest appraisals, CCs, SMs, and parents may work with them going forward. Wanna know what's very hard to work with? Claims that @T2Eagle would sweep violations under the rug! Impossible to work with? Some scout needing to deflect his own mischief on to that scouter, and nothing on record from the scouter himself of what actually transpired. Tragic? Real abuse in a troop that had ignored warning signs.
  18. 1 point
    I would love to, I just have to convince my wife now! Maybe, I could take her on that trip to Ireland she wants and arrange a SLIGHT detour for a day of Scouting Adventure, lol.
  19. 1 point
    Let's deal with the facts as we have them and avoid hypotheticals. In this particular case, there were three separate rooms available. One for the adults and two for the scouts. The adults collectively agreed that they would stay in one room and the scouts would be divided in the two others. The scouter in question - regardless of his motive or intention - chose to remove himself from the adults room to go and sleep in one of the other room with the scouts at a very late hour and without informing any of the other adults that he was planning to do this. That's troubling to me. Whether wilful or not, this is a violation of YP. Ignorance of the law (or YP rules in this case) is, and has never been an excuse for violation of the law/rules. He violated YP rules and that needs to be reported to both the council and to the CO so that they can evaluate and make a determination as to what action may be necessary. For all we know, this may not be the first time that this scouter has done this, so it very much needs to be documented with the council and the CO. This scouter chose to go into the scouts sleeping area when it had been clearly and rightfully established that the adults would sleep in their own separate room. The snoring excuse hold absolutely zero credibility or validity. Also,why did he not alert one or more of the other adults to the fact that he would be going into the other room? The fact that adults were sleeping and he may not have wanted to wake anyone up so as not to disturb them also holds no credibility. If he was having trouble for whatever reason that night he should have spoken to the other adults.
  20. 1 point
    Ohh, my (not so) inner Scout nerd is going bananas. I would LOVE to make that trip.
  21. 1 point
    Neat story....sort of. I met GBB at the 1981 NSJ. One of my troop mates grabbed me to go see Green Bar Bill, I recognized the name but was not fully aware of who he was. Apparently, neither was my troop mate because when i asked he replied he wrote our handbook. So we grabbed a couple of newly minted handbooks and went off the get them signed. We waited patiently as he talked to some other folks and signed autographs. Once we had them signed we ran off to do fun Scouting things. It was not until much later that I realized who GBB REALLY was and his significance to Scouting. I say "sort of" above because had I know more about who he was I probably would have stuck around and talked to him more and listened to him much more. But I was young, so maybe I wouldn't have. Who knows. I still have that handbook and it is now one of my most treasured Scouting items.
  22. 1 point
    It's a violation and has to be reported. It sucks, because it seems pretty clear that this guy had zero ill intention and it was just a moment of desperation in the middle of the night trying to get some sleep. But we can't pick and choose when to follow the rules and when not to, especially when it comes to YPT.
  23. 1 point
    Sort of the Seinfeld of threads. A thread with a topic about no topic. One question. Who is playing Kramer?
  24. 1 point
    What I was getting at was that if a female crew member, who previously could not join a troop and work towards Eagle, now wants to do that since the rules changed, I would encourage them to do the same as Sydney. Join a troop, work towards Eagle, and if they don't have enough time to finish, apply for the extension or petition the BSA to let them start now. There is nothing that I'm advocating for Sydney that I wouldn't also advocate for when it comes to any female scout who wants to work toward Eagle Scout rank.
  25. 1 point
    Actually, no Crew members cannot count work done unless they were currently registered as Scout. So those young women cannot transfer that effort (with a few very specific exceptions). Once they are allowed to join a Troop any work done in one organziation counts toward the other, with the exception of Eagle/Summit projects. To the contrary, I support her viewpoint of allowing girls in Scouting and have done so for a while now. I DO NOT support her tactics. Rather than work with Scouters that agreed with her she has called out BSA as discriminatory. Rather than join Venturing and making her voice heard through the forums BSA provides she has worked from the outside starting petitions. Rather than support BSA though Venturing she has traveled hundreds miles to go outside of the country to join foreign Scouting associations. She has locked arms with NOW who have called for discontinued federal support (whatever that means) until her demands are met. Regardless if she was making an effort or not to give BSA a black eye, she certainly has done things that have done so in many peoples minds. I do not think that is by accident. All to often in today's society, when people disagree the immediate fall back is to accuse them of bigotry, prejudice, sexism, etc. The language has been weaponized to achieve desired outcomes, even when the label does not apply.
  26. 1 point
    They absolutely have a choice. If you do not have the requisite number of girls or leaders, you do not start a unit. That is true for both boys and girls, and a crew. If people are telling you they do not have a choice it because they do not understand or they are making excuses.
  27. 1 point
    Don't get me started there. There are so many things wrong with G2SS in that regard. But that is a topic for a different thread.
  28. 1 point
    this sort of thing is why I always used to roll my eyes (with them closed) just a bit when I'd hear scouters tout that they were scouts in a way of stating qualification....or when others such as CC's would pick folks to be SM just because they were eagles....or they were scouts as a kid..... as if that automatically makes them qualified.
  29. 1 point
    This is why I always bring my tent. And, yes, there have been sub-zero temps when I've set it up to avoid a cabin full of teen-scent and alcove of man-snore. (Or maybe I was the snore!) I'll sleep under a roof if there's only one other leader and he insists on staying in the cabin, or some base/hotel regulation insists adults be in the same quarters. Talk to your scout executive or director of field service. Generally, they are more respectful of this sort of thing than people give them credit. And, get the guy ear plugs as an early birthday present.
  30. 1 point
    Re-institute the Knights of Dunamis?
  31. 1 point
    No worries! I would add though that while Gilwell is worth sticking your head into if you are passing I wouldn't make a massive detour to see it if you only have limited time in the UK. There is some scout history there but you can probably see all of it in a couple of hours. The majority of the site is a run of the mill (for the UK) scout campsite and activity centre. Eccles (BP's caravan) may be there depending on what time of year it is. Easiest way to get there is to drive but if you are using public transport take a train to Chingford and get a taxi from there, or it's about 45 minutes walk. Similarly I would combine Brownsea with something else. When we went it was the same day as the Bournemouth airshow nearby which we combined it with.
  32. 1 point
    I interview, hire, and occasionally train employees for the company I work for. Many of the best hires have been young people with no prior work experience. When a person has no preconceived notions and is not already tainted or jaded from a prior employment, they are like a untouched piece of clay that can be easily molded into what we need.
  33. 1 point
    This is why I left the first troop I was associated with as an ASM became a SM of a troop that drove hard on the PM. I was asked to leave that second troop because I expected "too much leadership from the boys". It was ironic that I was asked to leave the third week of GBB Patrol Method training. The boys grew from 5 scouts to 28 in 3 years. I know for a fact that those numbers have dropped back down since I left. I seriously believe the vast majority of adults do not wish to see their boys using the PM as the leadership it develops is a threat to their control over their "children".
  34. 1 point
    I'm the Committee Chair for a large troop. In that role, I've seen the impact that well trained leaders can have. To me, money spent training adults is money spent on the boys. I could hope that council would make it free - but, I know how strapped they are for funds. I don't mind building $10 per scout per year to cover getting leaders trained. Money very well spent in my book.
  35. 1 point
    @T2Eagle, If you feel uncomfortable enough to ask the question, you probably already know the answer. @SSF, let's please avoid assuming any intentions on the part of the Scouter in question.
  36. 1 point
    Hmmmm - how to respond to this? In various unit, district and council positions I have seen a wide range of adult to boy led units. What does the "best units" mean? I guess that is in the eye of the beholder. Part of how I judge the best units is by the level of boy-led they actually are. Boy-led units, on average, tend to be less organized and less efficient than adult led in many cases. However, the top handful of our best units are very boy-led. They have been doing for so long and so well that it is their culture, and those units rock along like well oiled machines with virtually no adult being actively visible. You rarely see the adults anywhere near the activities and the units have the highest participation and enthusiasm. The bottom handful of our units that struggle the most are very adult led. There are rules for everything and everything is in place, on time and boring as can be for the youth. In the middle is a mix. As for EBOR, I always try to talk about Patrol method and leadership. A rough guess is 2/3 to 3/4 of the Eagle candidates do a good job of explaining patrol method. Of those, about half say their troop does a good job of being boy-led. Of the rest I would say half say it is up and down on boy-led and half say rarely or never. So I would say that pans out to about 1/3 to 1/2 of our units do a good job of being boy-led. I have always considered that pretty bad percentage, but reading this maybe we are not doing so bad after all.
  37. 1 point
    The BSA and Lucasfilm both seem to be betting on the future rather than the past. Big risk, potentially big reward. And yes, even for Star Wars it's a risk, the franchise isn't invincible. There was already talk of people getting burned out on Star Wars before Last Jedi opened. Both organizations know that in order to endure in future generations, they need to figure out who their best audience will be, and not just play to the past and present audience. Both do seem to be forging ahead with a plan to create new fans, even if that means old fans lose interest.
  38. 1 point
    Very interesting that this topic comes up right now. At our Scout meeting last Tuesday, my youngest son (13) and two buddies from school were talking about being able to work at a local grocery store at 14. They were excited about the possibility of earning some scratch on their own, but were a little bummed at having to wait and lose the summer. (ha, would that I could "lose" a summer being a 13 year old boy again!). I let them know there was an alternative. Since they all liked hanging around each other and it is fun to work with friends, why don't they consider being entrepreneurs and start their own business? Does not have to be a Silicon Valley start up by any means, but starting a small lawn care business or clearing out stuff or whatever they decide on would be a great learning experience and get them out of the "I have to work fast food if I'm a teen" mentality. I told them that being your own boss has a lot of great benefits, and the money goes to you based on your efforts, hard work, and luck. My oldest son Alex (just turned 17, working on Eagle) is a musician and taught himself to play the organ. There is such a lack of organists that he started subbing at local churches. One offered him a music minister position (part time due to school) and he is pulling in $600-$800 a month doing that. He found a niche and has made it work for him, making pretty good money for his age without all the pain in the butt stuff that I experienced with my first jobs. I hope all my kids will start their own businesses, but we will see. Funny what paths come up in life, and I am interested in how they handle the working world. I just think the entrepreneurship option teaches a LOT of great lessons. Check out this kid: http://money.cnn.com/2017/04/20/smallbusiness/hoopswagg-brennan-agranoff-socks/index.html.
  39. 1 point
    Well, @jjlash, I say make your fees as transparent as possible and give the learners all that they deserve!
  40. 1 point
    No. She has to start at Scout and work her way up. She has to abide by the same rules I did. She joins and earns Scout and then has to earn the other ranks. You can’t get credit for work before joining just like webelos and non scouts can’t get credit now. The requirements say “while a scout” which means a USA registered scout. If you bend the rules for her you need to bend them for everyone else. Why is she so special?
  41. 1 point
    WHY? “…trademark licensing program has grown from $6 million dollars in retail licensed product sales annually at the end of 2006 to more than $75 million dollars in retail licensed product sales annually at the end of 2016…” WHO? Mr Greg Winters, Manager, Licensing Programs, Boy Scouts of America http://www.hktdc.com/ncs/alc2018/en/s/Speakers.html According to a trade magazine http://images2.advanstar.com/PixelMags/license-global/digitaledition/05-2016-top150.html#46 the BSA is # 150 of the Top Global Licensors. Bigger than I would have guessed! Girl Scouts were # 104. That's a lot of cookies and pinewood derby cars. As a revenue source licensing make sense for the BSA and if I was in charge I would do it. But... on the bigger issue of BSA as a franchise and public image (brand), the BSA has not done well. At least in my Council the number of Organizations interested in chartering a Scout Unit continues to decline. The BSA is a tough "sell" and assigning your newest entry level person, the District Executive, as your "sales rep" has not worked well.
  42. 1 point
    Okay, since I have been involved deeply in branding in my professional life I feel the urge to chime in here. BSA has a very strong brand, both nationally and world wide. Brand equity, value, recognition, recall and a whole slew of other metrics are strengths for BSA. If BSA did not have a strong brand do you think GSUSA would have spent so much effort and money after the last policy announcement? BSA is certainly using it's brand to their advantage in bringing girls into Scouting. If Trail Life had made the same announcement instead of BSA I don't think you would have heard a word from GSUSA, because the BSA brand is seen as a threat and Trail Life is not. Licensing is not just about selling products, it is just as important to protect the brand and keep companies from using the brand in ways that would damage BSA. But, BSA does license their brand for products. All those backpacks, sleeping bags, compasses, water bottles, prints (and apparently burial urns) etc. with BSA logos on them in the Scout Shop are licensed. Businesses like Polaris, Buck Knives, Jansport, Osprey, Case Knives and on and on, pay BSA big dollars to be associated with the BSA brand. The cost of the conference? Maybe nothing more than the employees salary. Large conferences and conventions almost always pay hotel and food cost, very often they will pay travel as well. Sometimes the pay the speakers a stipend to attend, particularly if they have high brand recognition. Regardless, organizations pay to send employees to these events because there is value in learning what is going on in the market, in networking in being visible. In that regard BSA is no different than any other company. If BSA did pay the full cost of attending then my guess it is still money well spent.
  43. 1 point
    Lol. Great question. And I'm laughing because I remember a very specific BOR with a 16-year-old. It was for Second Class. We have about 100 kids in the troop, so I didn't know them all. All I knew was the next BOR was for Second Class. Well, in strolls this 16-year-old kid. We thought it was a mistake and we were checking the name on the IHR and everything. And the kid speaks up: "No you got it right. I'm here for the Second Class BOR." This kid had been a Scout since he was 11. AND he had over 75 miles hiking and over 40 nights camping. He had been to summer camp a couple of times and maybe even a Jamboree or Philmont - can't remember which. Plus, he had about a dozen MB. So the conversation starts and the kid says he never really had an interest in advancement. He just like to camp, hike, fish, hunt, etc. Just a real outdoorsy kid who apparently hated the advancement stuff and had found a home with an organization that would get him in the outdoors. We told him it was cool, but that we could certainly use his experience and age in leading younger Scouts. The Scout knew how to cook, first-aid, build fires, pitch tents, even knots and lashings. I think it was his last rank but he stayed active until he was 18. And as I said, he was a super kid. So different strokes for different folks.
  44. 1 point
    Thank you all. She has not returned to a meeting since that incident. I do not expect that she will. At the end of January, her Scout's membership will expire when we recharter. She has made no effort to pay renewal fees for her Scout. The deadline for paying renewal fees is January 4. SSScout, the father has not been a part of the Scout's life for several years. The mother and father are divorced and seriously estranged.
  45. 1 point
    If this were me, and I was Committee Chair (which is the person who should be doing the notifying), I would first contact the District Executive, or whoever is the professional at your council who is assigned to your district, for some guidance. You are going to want their support when Problem Mom contacts them, which she most likely will, so it makes sense to try to get them in your corner now. One concern I have is that I have never heard of removing a Scout because of the conduct of his parents. And, assuming that Problem Mom is not a registered leader, I'm not sure how you "remove" a parent except by removing her son. This is one of the things I think you should get guidance about from council.
  46. -1 points
    problems ahead ...