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Everything posted by TAHAWK

  1. That is what it once meant. As BSA's rep here likes to say, it's not 1954 anymore. Once, Boy Scouting was the iconic program for boys. Now it reaches lress than 5$ of eligible youth in our area. For the new pursuit of membership see https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/Family-Scouting_Infographic_v10-1.pdf
  2. Nor I. But that's not the requirement. Background check or not, they can only stay 72 hours if not registered..
  3. They had planned on certain parents - unregistered - staying at camp all "week."" as their "two-deep leadership." Under the 72 hour rule they were supposed to leave. Like a full moon with 'da Wolf-man, that 4321st minute turns the unregistered parent into enhanced risks to Scouts. 🐯 So the units adults began calling around to find other adults available during the work week. That's right; as we "hive mind" types know, adults are less available during the day Mon-Fri - esp on short notice.. Having no luck, they decided to ignore the silly rule.
  4. No harm so long as the rule is not enforced. If it were, that troop would have gone home Wednesday night. Our troop's trek in Canada had me (registered) and four parents (not), two of whom were cops and one a county social worker. My experience in different from yours. My experience supports your dichotomy as false. Usually, in my experience, when they register nothing useful is found out.
  5. The parents are the same people the first 72 hours of a given activity as they are in hour 73. If they cannot be trusted for 72 hours, why are they there? Having them registered Scouters does not make them more reliable in any way that has been measured. Really stupid rule.
  6. One local troop I know about - confronted by the 72 Hour rule already imposed by the Safety Bubble - simply did a couple of days at Summer Camp without complying. That is, parents stayed over 72 hours, registered or not, and the camp staff knew, agreeing it was a "stupid" rule. Silly rules create disrespect for rules generally and for rule-makers. Sociology 101.
  7. Richard, if your idea of required "safety" results as is is doing, in destroying BSA Boy Scouting, there will be nothing for parents to "look" at. "Your attitude is beyond unhelpful. It is your rule that says the presence of one or more parents is not good enough to insure the safety of their children at a Scouting activity - must have registered Scouters, who unlike parents, have no legal status ipso facto vis-a-vis the child. Wow, just wow! 😵
  8. How I wish it were not so. 😭 Scouting, primarily the BSA variant, was a big part of my life since 1954.
  9. BSA, most of whose employees literally do not know what the Patrol Metod is, have now abandoned it, and so have abandoned Boy Scouting.
  10. BSA DOES NOT DECIDE WHO IS A "MANDATORY REPORTER" FOR PURPOSES OF THE LAW.. Facing the realities of some of the more absurd aspects of the pronouncements of the Safety Bubble, BSA has ruled that a child's parent is, ipso facto, a "registered Scouter," for purposes of meetings with a Merit Badge Counselor. Hopefully, there will be more push back against Safety by the rest of BSA scouting.
  11. Venturers have led group-forming games at our local courses since 2005. Two of those Venturers were the first officially approved NYLT participants.. They both staffed position-specific/iols training at Summer camp last Summer.
  12. TAHAWK

    Breaking Point

    A big problem is the general aversion of National to communication with volunteers - sometimes even local paid personnel. By "communication," I mean two-way exchange with at.rather than PRONOUNCEMENTS FROM ON HIGH! at.
  13. TAHAWK

    Teaching Basic Compass Skills

    "Seems to be some YPT violations here." Such as?
  14. TAHAWK


    And I din't say "supervision" was their role. You did: "The patrol method hasn't changed. Supervision requirements by adults of that patrol activity has." Note: There is, currently, no requirement of adult supervision at patrol meetings and front country hikes. That is an essential part of the Patrol Method and Leadership Development.
  15. TAHAWK


    Sigh! OK. You asked. This should not need saying, especially to one assuming to speak for BSA Scouting. We are NOT supposed to currently have adults supervising all Scouting activities. Remember "EDGE." Ever staffed EDGE, or even taken the training? Adults, we have taught for years from the official syllabus, have the "E" goal - to stand aside and let Scouts lead., coaching only when ASKED for advice. Scouts are to be allowed success or failure - on their own. Moreover, current BSA rules expressly authorize patrol meetings and front country hikes with zero adults present or "at" the said activities.. The Scout is SAID by BSA to belong to a patrol and experience Scouting in a patrol -- not a troop - context (See official BSA statements above.), a troop being a collection of patrols for the administrative convenience of the patrols. The patrols are to be supervised by an elected Patrol Leader. To the extent we have adults as supervisors, it is because the current employees of BSA and local councils do not understand and give only lip service to the Patrol Method, which IS Boy Scouting. . They neither promote Boy Scouting, as BSA still defines it, nor discourage non-compliance with Boy Scouting. (Wouldn't want to offend overreaching adults when we are so desperately short of Scouters.) BSA, officially, has given no coherent formal training in the Patrol Method in decades. For fourteen years, the position-specific basic training syllabus section for SMs and SAs (Assistant Scoutmasters) on "The Patrol Method" did not contain a single sentence on the Patrol Method and used the word "patrol" only once (in another context). As an understandable result, only a minority of Registered Scouts experience Boy Scouting. Safety is now telling one and all to have two registered adults as "supervision," I am saying that Safety, under some assumption of uber program authority, is daring to propose to drastically change Boy Scouting to an adult-led club for youth - i.e, non Boy Scouting. Big change. No one can defend this as merely "misplacing" Boy Scouting. And you claim that no changes in the Patrol Method re being made. You want to "understand"? Understanding comes from study, experience, and a decent respect for what you study. That would be study, experience and respect, of and for Boy Scouting, not just "risk management." You are proposing to kill Boy Scouting, as it was for over forty years and was supposed to be for over forty more, to reduce the risks of operating it. I am told by our council's very effective fund-raising professional (and the word "professional" fits in her case) that a "strategic initiative" is to get a big chunk of the estates of Scouters from the "Golden Age" - you know; years before you were born - as they die off. To that end we are invited to one "Free" dinner presentation after another, much like the events run by folk flogging Florida real estate and annuities. Dream on. We may have been born at night, but it was far from last night. Fund raising is down 1/3 here, year-over- year. More of that to come. Buzz, buzz.
  16. TAHAWK


    Bad enough if they constanly "monitor." Just that changes the chemistry and tends to defeat two official "Methods," including the most important - the Patrol Method. The Safety bubble spokesman (above) says "supervision" Supervisor. The boss.. What will be left - if the rule is followed - is not worth supporting.
  17. TAHAWK


    It's a den as of 10/18 IF the Pack can find another adult - and one who will register. Buzz, buzz.
  18. TAHAWK


    Attention Richard B: I am one of those "old farts," first a district leader in 1962, red jacket and all. Council leader in 1964. You claim that, "The patrol method hasn't changed." Apparently, you don't know what the Patrol Method is. Here is what it is. "Patrols are small groups of Scouts [nb "Scouts"] who camp together, cook together, play together, and learn together. Patrols are where Scouts learn citizenship at the most basic level. They also take on responsibilities within the patrol, and learn teamwork and leadership." BSA July 29, 2018. "For a Troop to be successful in Scouting, the boys must live, move and have their being, in the Patrol." B.S.A., The Patrol Method (1938 ed.) at p 2 “[T]he Patrol must have a genuine life apart from the Troop.” John Thurman. Camp Chief, Gilwell Park, 1943-1969. Bronze Wolf (World Organization of the Scouting Movement) and Silver Buffalo (Boy Scouts of America “[The patrol members] interact in a small group outside the larger troop context, working together as a team and sharing the responsibility of making their patrol a success.”B.S.A., Scouting.org (2018)[emphasis added] “ Scouting happens in the context of a patrol.” B.S.A., Scoutmaster Position Specific Training syllabus (2018) “Patrols will sometimes join with other patrols to learn skills and complete advancement requirements.” B.S.A., Scouting.org (2018)[emphasis added] “Your Boy Scout troop is made up of patrols [nb "patrols, not Scouts], with each patrol’s members sharing responsibility for the patrol’s success.” B.S.A., The Boy Scout Handbook, 13th [current] edition at p. 25" "As a physical aid to help us remember the separateness of patrols, the patrols should camp 50-100 yards apart if at all possible – and apart from all adults." Baden-Powell, BP Outlook , “The Object of Camping” (October, 1909) “[T]he essential thing is that there should be small permanent groups, each under the responsible control of a leading boy . . . .” Hillcourt, William, The Patrol Method , B.S.A. (1930) Notice there is no mention of constant adult supervision. So, if you run BSA, we need changes in what we say BSA Scouting is and is about, especially in training.. In the name of "Safety" you presume to dictate the legitimacy of separate patrol activities - the essence of Boy Scouting. In reality, you are attempting to drastically change BSA Scouting and, apparently, know so little about the program side that you fail to understand what devastating changes you are proposing How do we develop leaders (an actual BSA Method) with adults constantly at hand "supervising"? (It was BSA Safety that kicked off YPT with the supposed rule [short-lived] that discipline was strictly an adult function. So we have seen Safety overreach before.) Where will units find all these extra registered Scouters when shortage of adults is one of our greatest handicaps? How many extra registered adults will it take? Who did the study? Where is the plan to acquire them? I was legal support for Risk Management at AT&T when it had 1,000,000 employees and operated the largest private fleet of motor vehicles in the world - larger than that of most nation states. My supervisor told me on Day 1 never to forget, in balancing risk and benefit, that there was a business to run. That seems to have been forgotten at Safety. "Hive" indeed. Once before, National ignored the "amateur" volunteers and forced implementation of the "Improved Scouting Program." Turned out that was not so great for those responsible when youth membership fell by about 1/3 and adult membership by about 1/2 (even using BSA figures). And this time, Bill cannot come back to pull the fat out of the fire. Buzz, buzz.🐧
  19. TAHAWK


    ATTENTION SAFETY BUBBLE: “Unless the patrol method is in operation, you don’t really have a Boy Scout troop.” B.S.A., Scouting.org (citing Baden-Powell) (September, 2015) “[The patrol members] interact in a small group outside the larger troop context, working together as a team and sharing the responsibility of making their patrol a success.” B.S.A., Scouting.org (2018)[emphasis added]
  20. TAHAWK

    Generic BSA Leather Belt?

    Any official uniform part is official for all time. We don't have a uniform. We have a brand of clothing. pictures: https://www.google.com/search?q=boy+scout+belt+image&rlz=1C1GGGE___US527US527&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7yMXI_sTcAhUh8YMKHXd8AZ4QsAR6BAgGEAE&biw=1413&bih=664 currently-sold BoyScout belt : https://www.scoutshop.org/boy-scout-web-belt-606884.html eBay is the secondary market for second-hand anything. https://www.ebay.com/b/Collectible-Boy-Scout-Uniform-Belts-Belt-Buckles/103982/bn_3048234
  21. TAHAWK


    The following, for what it's worth, from the National Council (I inquired after everyone I talked to at local council claimed to be unaware of the proposed new rules):: "National legal counsel stated that 1 person must be registered (Merit Badge Counselor) and the 2nd adult does not have to be registered but must be over 21 – suggestion is a parent.." This is not responsive. The new rules does not call for "persons" or adults, but "registered adults." The new rule needs to be withdrawn and reconsidered by competent adults aware that parents have legal custody and Scouters have, per se, no legal status vis-a-vis the children of others. The claimed purposes of YPT do not required "registered" adults, when parents, law enforcement officers, librarians, or school teachers could insure a Scout's safety at least as well. Here is the rest of the response from the central hive: "1. Why is YPT training reached on web via "position-specific training" when it is not? (This is a required training for all adult leaders.) [Ans] Every registered adult is required to complete the YPT. Therefore, the link is provided. [Apparently doesn't understand what "position-specific" means.]2. The rule prohibiting use of alcohol and drugs on Scout property was eliminated. Now I find two rules barring drugs and alcohol "when prohibited by a BSA rule," but there is no such rule any longer. An oversight, I trust. [My local council "knew only that they could now rent property for events where liquor would be served and had no idea how that was accomplished. My local council had not passed any policy to replace the revoked BS policy barring alcohol and controlled substances from its property.][Ans] Councils have the decision on this. While most councils have a policy that talks about no alcohol while scouts are present -they have left it open if they want to be able to rent out the property for weddings and other events that have a controlled situation and may want to offer alcohol. Again it is the council’s decision. [So a council rule is a BSA rule and the drug issue is ignored. I conclude National wanted, for financial reasons, to free up Scouting property for booze. Same logic as needing a "liquor license" for success in the restaurant world. Then the time came to communicate. 😐 ]3. Summer camps cannot be certified without registered Merit Badge Counselors for all Merit Badges that they offer per national camping standards. Further, The Guide to Advancement requires that only registered Merit Badge Counselors pass candidates on MB requirements. Yet many Council Camps allow minors - not registered MB Counselors by definition - to hand out Merit Badges, often with no testing whatsoever on any requirement. This is known to National Council. What does National Council propose to do about it? Another Merit Badge Mill summer is upon us at Camp Frontier. [Ans]The council’s advancement committee is to approve the syllabus for the courses during camp and approve who can teach the courses [False if she implies minors or persons not registered as Merit Badge Counselors can be authorized by a local council to be Merit Badge Counselors. In fact, expressly prohibited. See Guide to Advancement.] Most councils state that a 21 or older person must sign them. [Issue is who tests AND chronic failure to test. Yes, camps have an adult sign Blue Cards - in total ignorance of what the candidates have done - or not done, constituting a fraud.] National Camp Standard (NCAP) PD-106 requires that they be presented by qualified personnel . [ Anyone qualified can teach, although many who teach are highly unqualified, but Registered Merit Badge Counselors MUST be the gatekeepers who decide if the requirements are met.] and are consistent with the BSA advancement policy.. As a result, were rules to matter when filling camp and mass "advancement" is at stake, some arrangement to have registered Merit Badge Counselors monitoring the MB program is required by National Camp Standard PD-106" for a camp to be "Approved." Name omitted to protect the authoress. At least she responded, which is rare. But how can the official information source be so clueless?
  22. TAHAWK


    Passing rules with the expectation that the solution to the damage the rules do is solved by the rules being ignored is incompetent.
  23. TAHAWK


    Exchange with one bubble at National Council: Q: "4. There is a new rule in the Guide to Safe Scouting (effective10/01/18) stating that: Two "registered adults"(necessarily 18 or older to be "adults") must be "at" all "Scout activities." Even assuming you speak only of BSA scouting activities, what does this mean? I can no longer meet with a merit badge candidate in his home with his parent(s) in the house but must gin up another BSA-registered Scouter? . . ." A: ". . .National legal counsel stated that 1 person must be registered (Merit Badge Counselor) and the 2nd ["registered"] adult does not have to be registered but must be over 21 – suggestion is a parent.. . . Mandy Nora Member Care Contact Center Boy Scouts of America 972.580.2489 " OK. 0___0 I suppose that if we need to pretend that a parent is, ipso facto, a "registered adult," to get some relief from a truly ridiculous rule that will greatly damage program, we do the "Wink; wink; nod; nod" bit. Still does not provide any way to conduct merit badge sessions at summer camp without two "registered adults" present (whatever "at" means), but as they have been, for many merit badges at many (most?) council summer camps, largely doing without any Merit Badge Counselors, or passing requirements, those camps can and may probably ignore that rule too. "Wink; wink; nod; nod." Rules are obviously for LOL. _____________________________ Timeless Values