Jameson76

Our troop does maybe 2 / 3 backpacking outings each year. Also we do some outings that are not exactly car camping and not exactly backpacking, maybe the campsite is less than mile from the cars. Otherwise we are the typical Everest siege camping with trailers and sherpas, plus elephants to setup the main circus tent in camping area. The buzz of generators and chainsaws echo through the morning air. Back to the backpacking question on preparing and how does it work - Maybe 2 actual backpacking trips per year, varying lengths of 6 - 12 miles Each Scout handles their own meals / food We have communal backpacking stoves and other "crew" gear for the trip The crew gear is divided up amongst the scouts Each trip we practice with the stoves, discuss how to purify water, and other backpack items Weigh packs at the trailhead and discuss what can be left / is not really needed Lot of hammocking on the trail Suggestions that have worked for us Have a shorter one early on for the newer Scouts Have some instruction periods during meetings on basics Pick you treks based on ability, same with routes, there is one we like where we camp on a mountain top, one route up is really steep, there is another route that goes around and series of switchbacks up, we take the longer way up and the steeper descent Have group up points on the map, either road / stream crossings, mile markers, some specific points so the slower scouts can catch up and you are not strung out for a mile or so Reminder that uphill is slow and can be whiney, downhill can be slippery with gravity working against you

Have a celebration, congratulate them on their years of service, give them a nice plaque, note all the things they currently do, then name all the folks that are taking over these responsibilities, have a cake, take photos, and name them committee member emeritus and let them know they have earned the time off and rest. That or shove them off a mountain on the next outing, though there is a lot of paperwork involved in the mountain option (don't ask me how I know), the celebration solution is waaaay tidier. Plus there's cake.

To refresh everyone's memory, this is 9b (b) On any of these camping experiences, you must do TWO of the following, only with proper preparation and under qualified supervision. (1) Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 1,000 vertical feet. (2) Backpack, snowshoe, or cross-country ski for at least 4 miles. (3) Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours. (4) Take a nonmotorized trip on the water of at least four hours or 5 miles. (5) Plan and carry out an overnight snow camping experience. (6) Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more. A troop leadership group planning / doing normal outings should be able to have these occur. As noted they can occur with the troop, lodge, summer camp, high adventure, etc. Out troop is in the southeast, been a leader for many years, none of the scouts has ever done #5. Now we do regular trips to the mountains so #1 happens, at least 2 "backpacking" outings annually so #2 happens, we do a kayak trip and summer camp does rafting so #4, and many scouts take climbing at camp so #6 Key is these should be part of the program and not require special planning to achieve

While a good plan, just be careful to make sure the challenge and adventure is included. In the 70's and in the skill award days you could pick from 12 and had to earn 8 for Tfoot - 1st Class. Only required ones were First Aid and Citizenship. You could earn Family Living, Community Living, Communications, Environment, Physical Fitness, and Conservation and do minimal outdoor stuff. Swimming, Camping, and Cooking merit badge were not Eagle required. Yes, you could attain Eagle Scout rank and NEVER camp, NEVER build a fire, NEVER hike.

True - oh so true. When we are out and about during the outing closing etc leadership always tries to bring up that the state parks, WMA's, National Forest, National Battlefields etc are preserved areas and it takes support to keep them. We mention that as Scouts we may have have camped / hike at the same place. We need to do what we can to help preserve and promote the public lands. Outdoor Code is more than 27 words and Leave No Trace needs to apply any time you are out in the woods. BSA should be the experts in this and SMEs (Subject Matter Experts).

Don't underscore or short sell the seismic changes BSA National determined were the next best thing in the 1970's. When incorporated (skill awards were going to be awesome) BSA Membership 1971 - 4.8 million, 1981 - 3.2 million. That is losing a 1/3 of your members in 10 years. The organization has never recovered from the decision switch to focus on advancement and not adventure. After the great change in the mid-70's it was possible to earn Eagle Scout and never swim, never camp and basically never go outside. If you were on a hike and got lost the advise IN THE SCOUT HANDBOOK was to ask a police officer for directions. Urban Scouting at it's best. For those of us as Scouts then there was a hierarchy among Eagle Scouts, were you an OLD Eagle or a NEW Eagle? Those of use that squeaked in by 12/31/1973 had the swagger of being the OLD Eagle. If your unit leader was on point, they dug out an OLD Eagle patch for you. With the MBO focus now no one EVER goes and talks with successful units. The unit has 75% retention, Scouts stay until they age out, 30 nights camping per year, engaged adults, nope, no need to go see what they are doing. We've got popcorn, camp cards, FOS to worry about. Hey, come to roundtable for no discernible reason or value. BSA needs to cut Cubs to 3 years, focus on adventure, and do more benchmarking for units, and stop trying to be the swiss army knife of youth organizations. You know what travel baseball does well, they play baseball. We go to market with BSA we are outdoors, no wait leadership development, no wait STEM, no wait life skills, no wait service, not wait hobbies, no wait [insert flavor of the month] If there was any actual marketing for BSA we could focus on adventure, and your youth having many experiences. We do outdoors good, that is the laboratory, stick with that.

Remember, those of us that work and support scouting as volunteers (GROUP A) DO NOT have the same goals as the professionals and their selected board folks (GROUP B) that run Scouting. Group A wants to bring a vibrant program to youth. We work hard to provide program and have to work within the BSA bureaucracy to make that happen. We feel it is worth the struggle because of the positive changes we can see in participants lives. Give us a campfire, a hike, and Scouts making their own decisions and we are happy. Group B is only concerned with how to monetize the program and raise money to support their salaries. Very much like an MLM group. If they could raise money for Scouts and not have any actual Scouts, that would be their happy place. Though, they would miss belittling and ignoring volunteers. Anything that helps the units is not their concern. Raising money; FOS, popcorn, camp cards, lavish luncheons for big donors; that's what they want to focus on and is their reason for being. Once you understand that the groups DO NOT have the same goals or reasons for being, the answers to questions on why such foolish decisions are made become clear. Cubs cannot camp for more than 1 night, oh wait, maybe they can. All adults have to be registered to be on an outing, oh wait, if you are a parent with your kid on a cub outing forget that. And so many more. BSA National DOES NOT CARE and DOES NOT PLAN TO CARE about the customer experience of the volunteers and the units. If they are hard or impossible to deal with, THEY DO NOT CARE. Group A wants more units and more participants, more challenges out in the field. Group B wants to raise more money. If you don't believe me, I submit THE SUMMIT as exhibit A. Largest vanity project ever in the BSA and an underlying pin in the financial issues. A white elephant that will never be utilized or come close to generating revenue over expenses.

We try to listen to feedback and conversation on the way back from outings. For planning our unit has a list of outings by month for the last 25 or so years. Helps see where and when. Scouts do the annual planning and then outdoor chair review. Typically we can make most happen. Main things are sometimes time to drive someplace and costs. Sometimes I have been surprised on what they selected. In most cases that has turned out well. Leaders work with the Scouts on specific activities during the trip. We were camping near a city with large historic downtown. We split them into patrols and did a photo scavenger hunt, things like that. Also we get feedback during BOR. During planning many years ago they asked if we had to attend the district camporee, we advised their choice, so we have not done that lately. Mostly they found it (and I quote) lame. Try to focus on activities and adventure. Last year, 2023, we did Trip to beach and national seashore island, backpacking in mountain, wide game, putt putt tourney, lock-in, summer camp, trip to State Park and gorge and waterfalls, boating and tubing, kayaking, fishing weekend at mt lake, hiking and exploring mountains with AOL visit. All requested and run by Scouts

So the YPT rules state - One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting. So a Scout who turns 18 is considered an Adult Leader (when registered), so this would apply. Not saying I agree, but I am not claiming to be a lawyer. As they would have to register to attend an overnight outing, seems like a trap. Same thing happens ALL the time in the real world. I have some Scouts from the troop that live on my street. Family and social friends in most cases. Their dad is working on a project, sends Johnny down for some item or tool, we go down the workshop, get the needed gear. By the book a YPT violation. Had one call me as his car would not start, parents not home. Car in the garage, rolled up and we worked on it. Had to clean contacts, etc. But it was just and I "alone" in the garage. By the book a YPT violation. Obviously the rule has a background, but, when rules like this one are in place, and seem to be overreaching it impacts the actual validity of the program, Same with 18 year old, registered so he can participate through his HS time, which we should WELCOME and not discourage.

https://fb.watch/pCdpL5TwOv/ Good video from the US Army - 194th Armored Brigade on the troops visit to Fort Moort

So on things we could never do now, in the early 80's the only requirement for climbing and rappelling was money for equipment. You could call REI in Seattle (at the time you had to call 8 - 5 PST) and they would ship you what you wanted. We tied swiss harnesses and off we went. Kids had a great time. In the summer after we climbed the troop would go down the hill and swim in a river to cool off. Once we were rappelling on a large face (175' - 200'). When I went down to be the base the length of rope was fine. As the young scouts came down, as they did not weight as much, the rope ended about 15' above the end. It was a slope, so they came off the blue line and we caught them as they jogged down the slope. Good times. Going to assume that would be frowned up nowadays

There still is a BSA Ranger program run by NEGA over the summer at Frank D Merrill and Mt Yonah. Had scouts attend over the last several years https://www.nega-bsa.org/Ranger

Well, we see where his focus is Krone highlights the importance of data management, proposing the migration of member information to a cloud-based data lake and mining that information (no doubt to monetize) to connect with BSA alumni who may not have been contacted in decades. With nearly 100 million alumni, the organization aims to use technology for targeted communication, reconnecting with former Scouts, and fostering philanthropic engagements. “Technology will help us find those people, communicate with them, update them on what’s going on in Scouting and connect them with philanthropic interests and fundraising,” (So focused on money had to say it twice) Krone said. Data analytics will be employed to gain valuable insights into membership trends, enabling more effective and targeted programming across different councils. (no doubt to monetize) As usual, main focus will be raising money. No mention in the article about growing the program and expanding the membership.

I recall that directive back in the day. The test would advise who do you call first and SE was the answer, which in my mind was incorrect. Coming from corporate world we involved law enforcement and corporate HR with any issues that would even remotely appear to violate the law. As a site GM my role was to handle the issue but also get out of the line of investigation to eliminate any conflict of interest. First call to the SE seemed to be first step in downplaying the issue. I never had to deal with a reportable issue, but my first call would have been local police. On reporting, it is brought up occasionally, but we must remember the times have changed. When I was a DE back in early 80's, neighboring district had an issue. None of the parents wanted the police involved, nobody wanted to go on record and testify, accuse, etc. They just wanted the guy gone. We were aware of the allegation, removed the volunteer from his position, and advised National, but that was about as far as we could go. If the council had been the accuser not sure we would have been able to get the investigation moving along. Without corroboration would have opened up Council and staff to defamation claims. Not saying the way we handled was the most effective way, it was really the process back 40+ years ago

I have only seen the DE wander by a meeting maybe once, and they were wanting to talk about FOS. The DE came out to see our Troop run camp summer 2020 during Covid, we sort of felt they were looking for things we may be doing wrong. One year they stopped by our campsite at camp (once in my 15 years) to say I guess hello. Bottom line, the professional staff has done zero to build bridges with our unit, the largest in the district Would agree. We did have some questions on the new recharter process as the information had not been sent to units and details we were getting from other councils was somewhat conflicting. Received the most arrogant and condescending e-mail response we had ever seen that alluded to sent information. Looped in the Field Director and guess what, not communications was ever sent. We advised the FD and SE and advised we did not want to have any further communications with the DE So a while back we had a request from the District Chairman and District Commissioner that one of our adult leader register as the Unit Commissioner for our unit, that way the position would be filled. We advised that seemed like pencil whipping a position and what value would one of our leaders bring to our unit as a commissioner as they were already actively involved with our unit. They did not get back with us.

Finally found some details on my council, not able to find past years, but I know that overall, the council has less youth than in past years. Most surprising, and possibly troubling item is that Cubs are now over 2/3 of the membership. Maybe that will mean future growth. Another possibility is that this is where professionals and council board membership team feel the easy pickings are, so that is where the efforts are. Less risk and more oversight in Cubs, so the safety folks are happy. Other interesting nuggets: Equivalent of 15.5 adult volunteers per unit, which seems high. 2.5 Eagle Scouts per Troop Though not published about 1 council employee per 275 youth SE / CEO overall compensation is about $29.50 per youth.

So I guess the DE would need to be actually visible in the district, maybe make an effort to get to know the units, and not be an arrogant and condescending person in communications with units.

What do we want from Professionals 1) Visibility - Our District has 20 units. We have 3 units at our CO. Doing math and assuming a 40 hour week, in a month the DE should be focused on what they can do to build our units close to 3.5 days. We actually have no idea what they do. 2) Marketing - The professional should be involved in building the BSA brand. Social media, local papers, etc. 3) Recruiting - Leaders and Youth, focus on growing the brand

I know locally that seems to be how they raise the money to keep the professionals being paid, you focus on the history and the nostalgic thoughts of the BSA. No mention of current operations, more "Follow Me Boys" than actually what is happening. Local council has 40%+ of the staff either directly or tangentially involved with fundraising. The DE's, who are supposed to be building scouting locally, are primarily charged with leading FOS, popcorn sales, camp cards ..... oh and maybe if time building units in the area.

Also, there is the question, for districts where are the volunteers coming from? In the good old days, you and son (now child) would be active in Cubs and then Scouts, as child aged out, you could become involved in the district, etc. etc. With the larger number of units / adults at that time there was a supply of folks to choose and select from. As has been noted, with the disregard by pros and no real cache to be a "district" or "council" volunteer, there is no pool available. And, whether one agrees or disagrees with the policy and membership changes in BSA over the last 10 years, a number of seasoned and experienced volunteers have made their personal decisions and moved on. As for newer adults being brought in with Cubs and families, they are seeing BSA as an experience and doing their time with the kids, then on to the next thing. Many are not even aware of district or council. Personally, I see even with the unit I am involved in, not many understand the governance and structure of the BSA. District is a needed evil for Eagle project approval, and that's about it. They do not bring value to the day-to-day unit operation.

This should not be underscored. BSA spent close to $1B on the Summit when there was no need and no real overall plan to fully utilize. Well, there was / is a plan, just not a realistic plan. Look over the original presentations, it is smoke, mirrors, and hope. They could easily have setup a home for the Jamboree at a much smaller area and at a much lower costs. Why they keep pouring cash into the vanity project that is the "Summit" baffles me. Sell the place and walk away.

As a reminder, Scoutreach and efforts to serve the underserved have been used by professional BSA staff to inflate membership numbers. Below are two articles, but the abuses were numerous. Alabama Boy Scouts Accused of Padding Membership (foxnews.com) Atlanta Scouts Inflated Numbers - The Washington Post A needed effort, but the administration and potential for abuse is huge.

The SE (sorry he insists on being called CEO) for Atlanta Area Council makes waaay more than that. Thus no FOS for me.

I would agree. Certainly, a nice guy no doubt, but he is retired and 67. Now that would definitely qualify him to run for President of the United States, but why not someone in their prime? An energetic, new vision for the organization, someone who can get out and represent the BSA out of bankruptcy. As a businessperson, when I see a retired individual take over a company coming out of bankruptcy, I see someone who is either a caretaker for the next "real" leader OR someone who will be shepherding the company through its sale and breakup.

In our district we have one troop rolling into ours as they are not re-chartering, the SM's son crossed over to our troop and last 2 years we have had some of them attend camp with us. Many of our scouts an theirs go to the same school, so they all know each other. In talking with another SM recently they may nor re-charter, just not enough scouts. They are not as close to us as the first one. That is 2 troops units down in a small district. 10 years ago within 2 to 3 miles of our CO (church), we are heavy suburban, there were maybe 375 Cubs and 250 Scouts, today maybe 150 Cubs and 100 Scouts. Big decrease. Do not see the numbers of years past coming back.