Jameson76

Are they different timeframes? I noticed that the April 2024 membership highlights shows about 775K in Cubs and Scouts. For the same noted population the graph seems to show 1,014K for 2024 (which could be a goal??) and 966K for 2023 which is 25% under the highlight figure. I wonder if anyone questioned the figures or maybe they gave context in the meeting. Point is, if an organization is not clearly able to state where they are at a point in time, they do not have a realistic hope of moving forward in any cohesive manner.

Well, that is optimistic at best. An organization is projecting 43% growth in 5 years, while they have experienced a 46% LOSS in the last 5 years. Most businesses would not project that type of growth unless they are rolling out new technology, acquiring a competitor, or expanding into new territories previously untapped. BSA (sorry SA) does not seem to be planning any of those efforts.

Calling what BSA publishes on membership being a "shell game" is very polite. The BSA (sorry SA) has not published the "Report to the Nation" in several years, at least in the format as in year's past. That whole pesky Trustworthy thing not being observed. Typically when a company does not send out actual figures, the reason is it's bad news. With the revamped membership registration process, the move to coed (it's not a pilot folks), and the emphasis to push out any current leaders not embracing the move to coed (to make room for all the leaders waiting in the wings); while a very worthwhile and needed program, the future is not bright.

Our district wanted our unit to name someone to be the "commissioner" for our unit. We pointed out that this seemed to be just a pencil whip of the position. What value would someone currently active with the unit bring to the unit? Shouldn't a commissioner be a neutral party to help and advise the unit as needed? District did not get back with us.

In theory this is good, but the challenge will be what happens in practice with the information. If the anonymous report is not handled confidentially there could be issues. If this report were to move forward with the authorities, not sure how this would square with the 4th and 6th amendments. The anonymous accuser will hopefully need to be interviewed and vetted before anything should be done. BSA (sorry SA) National acting on what could be unfounded and non-verified accusations is the other side of the pendulum that swung all the way to not reporting to authorities and trying to handle internally. Cue up more lawsuits down the road.

Curious what the actual membership numbers are. BSA (Sorry SA) has not been overly transparent of late with that data

Scouter - we will tell you what you need to know and when you need to know it....and be happy we are engaging with the peasant leaders at all Signed BSA National Leadership

The best method we have found is rally points along the way. We all depart at the same time and maybe meet at some designated break spot, then meet at the next logical point. For our winter trip this past January departed the CO, met about an hour down the road (got outside the major city we live near), then another hour to our first trip stop. We departed there a few hours later and the meetup was an hour down the road for the camping spot. On heading home day met an hour down the road for a tour stop at a historic place, then an hour or so up the road and after we hit the main highway, stopped at a large center with a beaver as a mascot. Then the 1.5 hours home to the CO. At the designated stops keep up with everyone, also we have a text group for trips and have our co-pilots handle the exchanges If our camping spot is more remote, off the path, we meet as close to there as possible on the way in, then convoy the last few miles.

If money for the project is raised / solicited from the candidate, his parents or relatives, his unit or its chartered organization, parents or members in his unit, or the beneficiary then NO FORM is needed. Do not overthink.

While some of the article is questionable, there are some truths. Trail Life does clearly define who they are, what they do, and what the benefit may be. One has the right to disagree with their messaging, but it is clear. BSA (SA??) has an extremely broad message about what they are. The current focus seems to be all things to all people. Not sure you can excite and entice people with that. There may be confusion in that all are welcome seems to mean BSA (SA??) will do / provide whatever you want in it's program. IMHO there is a Balkanization of what BSA (SA??) provides in that there are many constituencies that rather than benefiting from the larger group they are laser focused on their specific benefit they can get. While good for them, that may not build a cohesive organization. Also as BSA (SA??) units can be almost a franchise what one gets from unit to unit can vary. The organization needs to welcome all BUT needs to clearly define what the organization does and how it does this.

You may be missing the whole "community" aspect of the travel sports lifestyle. You are more than a family, your child is an (insert sport here) athlete. Yes there is time, but no real planning other than financial commitment. You drop them off for practice, pick them up. Go to games, hang out, head home. You hang out with the other families and commiserate on how much time all this takes up. Kids also get burned out and the casual participation declines considerably after 8th grade. Also good observation in that if the fees for travel (can be $3k or more per season / 2 seasons annually) were to be put into standard investments college would be paid for over some years.

We have faced some of the same challenges During visits (AOLs were off with the scouts as we meet in the woods behind the church) our leadership discussed with the parents the various outings (gorge trip, boating, kayaking, backpacking, biking, etc); youth led troop, servant leadership, Scouts camping away from leaders, etc etc. As I watched the parents and listened to the few questions, my comment as we huddled after...they are not buying what we're selling. They expect Cubs part 2 and we scare them. Programming for 11 year olds means the youth likely leave in a year or 2. Need to challenge and inspire.

Also not sure about this heading: Preparing Young People for Lives of Purpose and Impact Seems a bit vague and non definitive, more feel good than actionable.

Wow, that is a capsule at best. Guess they are being Thrifty with their output The 6% decline in Scouts (11-17) is way concerning. As a result of that noted that Eagle Scouts are down from +/- 50K per year to under 30K per year. As was noted, we are now at 1939 membership levels. Scouts in 1939 +/- 1,000,000 US population 1939 +/- 130,000,000 Scouts as % overall population - 0.76% Scouts in 2024 +/- 1,000,000 US population 2024 +/- 330,000,000 Scouts as % overall population - 0.03%

Lot of good comments Summary is the BSA (SA??) has not fully defined what it is and what they do. When I joined way back when it was a game with a purpose, we had adventures, learned things, sampled many different hobbies and interests, and most importantly learned to work in groups and take care of ourselves. As we matured we went from follower to leader. Over the years the BSA strayed from that to want to become the swiss army knife of youth groups. We do everything. Also more focus on advancement and formal learning and less emphasis on experiential learning. 1/2 the required Eagle MBs are basically classwork. Even the action merit badges focus way more on instruction and less on doing. Many leaders (parents) do not see the big picture. Anecdotal but the pages of discussion on getting 20 nights camping for camping MB is case in point. Folks spend way more time figuring our how to game the system than, well, I don't know, going camping. BSA (SA??) needs to get a clear message out of what they are DOING, action stuff. Move away from family stuff for cubs, that is killing that group and makes Scouts harder to recruit due to that is the expectation. Middle schoolers DO NOT want a family organization, they want adventures with their peers. We are not STEM (many groups do that better), Kids do not want more schools, and are actually not a formal leadership academy. You know what youth soccer is successful, they focus on soccer. BSA needs to focus on a core group of things we can do well, and sell that. Quick note on social media, the BSA (SA??) National and Council feeds are horrendous. They are really more message boards and advertisements. Post stories of what Scouts are DOING!! Focus on adventure to entice and dare I say tempt youth to go join.

Some other KPI (Key Performance Indicators) you may want to consider Number of Scouts lost on outings last quarter and actively found Number of Scouts lost on outings last quarter that you did not look for but who seemed to have turned up anyway Scouts left at gas / food stops last quarter while driving to or from outings Number of rain jackets forgotten at last outing with rain (can also be expressed as a percentage) Number of class A shirts misplace that seem to have magically been found Number of items "stolen" on an outing last quarter that were "found" in the correct backpack Amount of trash and debris (needs to be in pounds) left in vehicles used for transit to outings Amount of clothing and other personal items (needs to be in pounds) left unclaimed after last quarters outings Number of propane cylinders deemed empty yet seemed to work when actually connected properly to the stove Number of times troop SPL has explained what the 3 pot cleaning method is (expressed as average times per outing)

Well, in many cases it is subtle. You can't really address this or you are "not supportive", so there is no real alternative other than to be disgruntled. - We have seen at camp the female troops request, dare I say demand, that certain bath houses be "female only". Note these bathhouses are all setup with multiple locking single rooms in them, all open to the outside - There have been requests at camp for some activities to be female only at times (water skiing, climbing wall to name a few), yet the narrative is we are all Scouts, so why the request for special consideration? - Male scouts have been admonished by Girl troop leaders for taking roads / paths near the girls sites and told these are female only areas, again, the narrative is we are all Scouts, so why the demand for special consideration? - At the camp we attend troops frequently share sites, some of the Girl troops have demanded not to share with a boy troop, and it has been acquiesced to, and in some cases the Girl troop got their own site, crowding other troops - Have seen leaders from Girls troops demand additional spaces for their Scouts in horseback riding classes since this is what girls joined to do so BSA should be accommodating - There have been the multiple first female Eagle, quickest female Eagle news releases over the last year, guess the boys earning Eagle are less now? - There have been the multiple celebrations for 5 years of females joining Scouts, yet there are boy troops that 75 - 100 years old and no celebration. Guess the boys are just here now and we celebrate the girls only. - My Scouts saw the "Golden Eagle" term and were curious what that was. Explained it was a girl who earned the GSUSA Gold Award and also the Eagle rank. Their response, so they are being recognized for something we (the boys) are not able to do? - Have seen on several forums questions as to why there is no Gold Award knot for BSA and Girls should be able to wear that on uniforms. Not sure what awards from other organizations should be worn on BSA uniforms, maybe some Scouts can wear their varsity letters and National Honor Society pins?

Vanity project pure and simple. The videos seem to be all consuming. At the end of the day we (The BSA) needs to either 1) Get more members 2) Right size the service / council end. The main issue with the BSA and lack of membership was visible when the decision was made to allow girls into the Scouts BSA / Cubs. During the Townhall video Michael Surbaugh (CSE at the time) basically said they needed members, they were out of ideas on how to grow membership, so this was the plan. That was an incredibly telling admission. That those that run and lead the program have NO IDEA how to get youth into the program. Plenty of ways to lay blame, but NO IDEA on how to grow the organization. That admission is really the crux and seems to be playing out. I suspect that membership for 2023, when presented, will be down under 850K. Last one out remember to extinguish the campfire

Do we raise money to have scouting OR do we have scouting to enable folks to raise money. Reminder that SCOUTERS in the units have different goals and objectives than the PROFESSIONALS and COUNCIL Scouters Scouter in the units are there for the youth, to work providing a fun program for the youth, to develop the youth in leadership and maturity, to make sure there is a game with a purpose, to make sure youth are engaged in a rewarding experience. Professionals are there (IMHO) to raise money to support their compensation which hires more professionals to raise more money for overhead; rinse, lather, repeat. Looking at the job description for most of our council DE's the focus is on MONEY. Was at an event celebrating an anniversary for a troop and the Field Director judged success for scouting in the area on money raised. If the Professional troupe could raise money and not have any actual pesky Scouts, they would be ecstatic. Just raise money on the nostalgic memory of Scouting in the bygone era. Our troop does nothing with the council or district, no real value there. We do attend the camp as it is run well. Last camporee was maybe 2010 for us as Scouts thought it was lame. Same for leaders and RT, etc, no value. I do honestly wonder what the DE for our district does for 40 hours per week. We really have no idea as we never see him and no value is brought by him. We had one question about the new recharter process and concerns with UMC, got a really snotty response, so said see ya.

I saw this on Scouting.org which plays into your point https://www.scouting.org/program-updates/5th-anniversary-of-girls-in-scouts-bsa-survey/ 5th Anniversary of Girls in Scouts BSA Survey March 3, 2024 We’re celebrating the 5th anniversary of girls joining the Scouts BSA program, and we want to know about your Scouts BSA experience! Every registered girl for whom we have a valid email address in the Scouts BSA program and a statistically representational number of boys from across the country will receive an invite to participate in our survey. If the Scout’s email address has not been associated with their account by their legal guardian in the registration system, their legal guardian will receive the survey on their behalf. Please allow your Scout to fill out the survey themselves. The survey will close on March 14th. I would agree that while an effort like this is no doubt noble and I would presume well intentioned, that they want ALL girls but only a statistical sample of boys, sets up a 2 tier system. Obviously they are looking for the girls experience, but have they done a survey of boys on their experiences? Any time I see events that are specifically for one gender or the other, that seems to defeat the inclusivity goal. One can also look at the registered leaders requirements for unit leadership on an outing to see that DEI is not really the same DEI in all cases. For a male troop, any two leaders can fulfill the requirement. For female troops they are required to have a female leader. Male troop, you can have 2 moms and that is super. Female troop, you have 2 dads and though shall not pass.

So the Scout has the project and has now moved to another unit in another council. Assuming the Scout has transferred to the new council and unit. Assuming the beneficiary does not care what unit or council the Scout is active / registered with The Scout would need to get approval from the unit, which seems to not be an issue The Scout would need to get the project approved by the new district. Likely just update the signature page and dates Would need to be aware of the new district processes. Potentially the Unit Leader or CC could advise the district of the transfer. no need to go into specifics, just a better fit While in the same district and council we have had some Scouts from troop that did not recharter continuing their Eagle journey with our unit. 2 had projects approved and we moved them in Scoutbook and they have proceeded on. Your only wrinkle is new council and district.

Were all of the rides, slides, walls, attractions ever fully opened? Even in the big pre-covid ones in 2013 and 2017 weren't some areas not fully opened due to staffing challenges?

IMHO Scouting's challenges have been that the program and emphasis is pulled in many directions by many different constituencies. Starting really in the 70's the trail has been varied: we are going to be urban we are going to be less outdoors we are going to be more outdoors we are going to do sports we are going to be involved in inner-city and have council run units we are going to be a leadership class for youth we are going to be STEM we are going to be less advancement focused we are going to be more advancement focused we are going to be in schools (learning for life) we are going to be career focused (explorers) we are going to appeal to older teens (venturing) we are going to be DEI we are going to focus on the family we are going to get kids involved even early (Pre-K scouting maybe??) NOVA awards ATVs at summer camp Tech Centers at summer camp Cub World summer camps merit badge clinics/universities Leadership as an addition to the Aims of Scouting Soccer and Scouting Journey to Excellence the Summit uniforms designed for indoor and ceremonial wear only; etc etc Just looking at any of these, not bad items, but is this the core competency of the BSA? In an effort to "Grow" the powers that be have tried to be All Things To All People, the swiss army knife of organizations. In the 70's there was Boypower Manpower with the stated goal to have 1/3 of boys signed up for Scouting and altering the program to meet that goal. That crashed and burned. Scouts do best outdoors. Market and build on that. Youth need the chance to be youth, lightly supervised and working within groups.

That is so true. The BSA spent waaaay to much money on the Disneyworld of Scouting and now that is a pile of debt and costs. Not sure what the long-term solution may be but casting that site off during bankruptcy would have been a bold move. With only 15K or so going to last Jamboree, the logistics of needing a larger than life site may be a requirement of the past. Maybe revisit the 1973 plan and have an East and a West Jamboree to make it easier to attend and reduce the numbers are each site.