Jameson76

I continue to be underwhelmed by the BSA professional leadership at the National and Local levels. Transparency is not in their vocabulary. Neither is communication. Noticed a random note on our district e-blast (which typically has "no new content") about cub recruiting and the Field Director who assisted. Apparently our DE, which is number 5 (maybe 6??) in the last 8 years has left. No notice from council on that occurrence. Then they wonder why the turnover is so bad as they don't regard them very highly and we do not get attached to them. In our district we are roughly 50% UMC units, but little to no direction or leadership from the council. But hopefully you'll fill in that FOS and sell that popcorn.

UMC and the council of Bishops is recommending / strongly advising / instructing local churches to NOT sign the charters. At this point it's not a NO, but remember that the ministers are assigned and are under the direction of the conferences that roll up to the main UMC. As this moves along, a local UMC church may want to charter a troop but it may be not allowed in the book of discipline. Side note: To actually update the UMC Book of Discipline would be a major thing, but you get my drift Candidly, the BSA will need to get a path forward without the Charter Organization model. The BSA (National) pretty much tossed the CO's under the bus during the proposed bankruptcy settlement. No group will likely want to be a partner with BSA as the question is; can they be trusted? Yes the January 21 CO agreement denotes insurance as a responsibility of the local council (note this is local council and not National BSA) Provide primary general liability insurance to cover the Charter Organization, its board, officers, Charter Organization Representative (COR), employees, and adult volunteers for authorized Scouting activities. Indemnify the Charter Organization in accordance with the resolutions and policies of the National Executive Board of the Boy Scouts of America. “The general liability policy issued to the Boy Scouts of America provides primary liability insurance coverage for all chartered organizations for liability arising out of their sponsorship of a traditional Scouting unit. Evanston Insurance Company provides the first $1 million per occurrence coverage. Additional policies, all providing primary coverage to the chartered organization, have been purchased so that more than $10 million in primary coverage is provided. There is no coverage for those who commit intentional or criminal acts. Liability insurance is purchased to provide financial protection in the event of accidents or injury that is neither expected nor intended However, will that be enough and once lawsuits against CO's crank up? May be game over for the CO model We, as a UMC troop are seeing what the landscape is and what out future may or may not hold.

I would posit it would be a logic paradox rather than a time paradox. It would be localized at first, then as more logic is questioned; the Zero tolerance rules at Schools, mattress tags that can't be removed, and 5 screens of signing up with websites just to buy something; that paradox would grow, sucking in the local area. As it grew, sort of like a hurricane, it would become a logicnado, absorbing all light and matter into the event horizon. Only by solid reasoning and calm deliberation could be logicnado be defeated. As we are painfully short on both, our destiny would be sealed, only the billionaires with their personal spaceships would survive, for about an extra 15 minutes.

Never said YPT was a game, it is not. The comment Or you can just not play the game is related to the obviously overreach in the YPT requirements. I was pointing out the position the YPT rules (note - not a game) puts leaders wanting to be compliant, The rule "outside of scouting" is vague at best and a CYA by BSA at worst. No other youth group, sports team, etc has compliance rules (likely short of arrests) that cover the same thing. Nor is there a legitimate way to actually enforce said rule. Great point on the 18 YO texting his 17 YO best friend about something. Clear violation.

Or you can just not play the game and sort of don't ask don't tell. BSA National did that for years with girls in units, good for the goose, good for the gander It's an option The whole outside of Scouting is an interesting over reach and while it has good intentions, that is what the road to Hell is paved with

I think the best thing would be to rename the current Scouter Forum .... The Bankruptcy Forum. (Honestly it's sort of that now) Then form a NEW forum called Scouter Forum Part 2 . Then those that want to diver deep into the minutia, blue sky thoughts, what if's, and pure speculation of the bankruptcy and what may, may not, may never happen will have a home. Put on the tinfoil hats and go to town. Those that want to discuss and review actual Scouting program topics will have a home. Just a thought.

That's the term that continues to frighten me. If bankruptcy, chartered partners leaving, councils selling camps, Summit costs, or local councils folding do not kill the Scouts BSA program, surely "Family Scouting" will be the death of it. This concept goes against the whole program. Not saying family camping as a concept is bad, good for families to get out and do things together, you don't need an organization to go and do that. It's just that the patrol method, Scouts getting experiential learning on how to lead things by themselves, having the opportunity to fail, having the opportunity to solve things and succeed; will NOT work with family camping. Leaders and adults have to be in the background. End of story

We appear to be having a meeting / Q&A session next month with the Council, Scouters, Clergy to ask about the "evolving" relationship between the BSA and UMC. As noted the "Parents of XXX" would be fraught with liability and not a good path forward. Unless the BSA agrees to insure and indemnify the CO, not going to work. Of course with the track record of bankruptcy and tossing CO's under the bus, no CO will really take the BSA at their word. Sad that an organization can have a great local reputation and a parent org that seems to not really follow their own Oath and Law. Self preservation for the higher ups trumps doing what is right I guess. Assumption is facility use agreement and some sort of Council Charter. Or we pack our tents and sadly exit the campground.

Some of our Scouts asked the same thing, they really liked our week long Troop summer camp last summer. The leaders all tried to downplay that option, running a troop camp is a lot of work. Not enough time for afternoon naps, etc.

It does take an involved cadre of leaders and involved parent leaders In 2019 out troop sent 3 crews to Seabase (6 leaders), 1 crew to Philmont (3 leaders), Summer camp in June (7 leaders) and Summer camp in July (5 leaders). And as others have noted, 10 monthly campouts / events. Good number of support leaders with reservations, medical form rechecks, finances, transportation, etc. This does take independent planning by the crew and summer camp leaders. With the Greenbard our outdoor chair initiates the items, but then a key leader runs with the actual event. Traditionally we do two summer camps (June and July) and 1 HA trip (Seabase of Philmont) annually.

Not to downplay the outbreak, but if they had 750 - 1,000 Scouts (Youth / Leaders / Staff) in camp the % of the outbreak is 0.3% to 0.4%. If the goal is 0% risk of Covid then no activity will ever take place. Possibly a more directed action could have taken place. Just suggesting that maybe apply the scalpel rather than the sledgehammer when situations like this inevitably arise.

Start with "Let me talk with you about a great Multi Level Marketing opportunity with Amway..." and see what transpires 😀

Agree I had some 17.5 year olds come to camp with us. Just enjoying their last time at camp as a youth

So true. I was our outdoor chair for many years and would work with the Greenbar on where we would camp and what we could do on outings. When the SPL would develop the plan for the weekend I always mentored them that have some things to do, but never to much. Leave time (especially in the afternoon) for downtime, wandering, etc. With summer camp I have to talk some parents down and explain that their Scout does not have to come back with forty leven merit badges to have a successful summer camp. Yes we schedule them in the morning classes (mainly so the leaders can have a nap and quiet time in the site) but leave the afternoon open for free period to go swimming, hiking, or just hanging out at camp. It is a balance to have some direction but also to let the Scout self determine what to do.

Our troop goes and does stuff. That is the goal. On many occasions we get a parent (or leader) that feels we should have "advancement outings", work on this or that specifically. The SM and key leaders always push back on that and continue to just push going and doing stuff. Go have fun. Now just because we do not have specific advancement thrusts on outings, does not mean that advancement does not (or cannot) happen on an outing. I always like working with Scouts on Camping merit badge, first we camp (not including summer camps) over 20 nights a year so most Scouts get that part easily. Then when we get to the other parts of requirement 9 and they realize that through normal weekend outings, they have accomplished all of that. Scouts playing cards, cutting things with knives, burning food, tenting in the rain, building fires, and doing random hikes in the forest to overlooks, waterfalls etc is what we do. Go do stuff

Couple of observations 1) Actually that is pretty good summation that BSA has sort of lost the focus on it's core constituency, the boys or now the youth. If you look over a councils program offerings it's all about families (not that families aren't important) and adult training, etc. etc. For those of us that have been around for a long while we can remember that the focus used to be how do we get more Scouts out and about and camping in the outdoors. Not really sure what the focus is now. 2) Not really sure that TL is a viable alternative at this time. Yes BSA has lost membership, but even now it is 25 - 30 times larger than Trail Life. That certainly may change in the near term, but they have a ways to go to be really relevant.

I don't disagree on "teaching" leadership. My definition would the experiential leadership learning that occurs when a troop functions. As a patrol leaders how do you get things done, what works and what doesn't work. When do you have to involve the SPL, when do have to go through the woods and involve the adult leaders? That is the leadership I was referring to. When Scouting is done correctly in the wild, Scouts (the youth ones), learn how to manage and get things done in their group of peers. They learn if they do not adhere to some type of timetable stuff does not in fact get done. They learn to assign tasks, to divide duties, that working together can be successful. They learn that not everyone can do every task to the same skill. Timmy may can cook, Tommy can tie knots, Davey can figure out where to setup tents, Joey can start a fire, etc etc. Together they can accomplish more than they can do separately. That is the leadership I was referring to. Organizing a police line, fixing a tarp in the rain, determining how to cook a meal when key ingredients are left at home, and working with the new Scout as they learn the ropes. That is the leadership I meant. Maybe Self Confidence / Self Determination / Self Reliance could be a better description. Understanding they can be in charge of their own destiny and are ultimately responsible for the CHOICES THEY make That is what we are selling and the benefits of Scouting (and having fun and not realizing they are getting some learning)

Let's hope that we don't have a group that wants to "re-imagine" the BSA and it's programs. The Cub movement toward heavily family oriented over the last 10 - 15 years was not getting in the droves of new members, adding females (not debating that) also did not result in massive new numbers. BSA needs to play to the strengths. Leadership, skills development, outdoor adventure. Get some ACTUAL marketing going on a LOCAL and NATIONAL level. Sell the program to the Youth with some selling to the parents. Show Youth doing things, going out and having FUN. Troops (can't speak for Cubs) that go and do STUFF and have the youth LEAD the stuff are successful. Not anything against all the STEM items but that may not be our core competency. Also get away from the merit badge mills and lockstep advancement expectations for the Scouts BSA program. Get the Youth out and about, interacting with their peers while leading and having adventures. That is what is needed and that is what we (BSA) needs to sell

We have said the same thing

Typically at summer camps 30% - 40% and I would assume the same for Philmont. Our council camp was the same as most staff typically work +/- 3 summers. This year about 2/3 new as opposed to 1/3

On the salaries - From the 2019 - form 990 (CEO/Secretary) Base, Bonus, other compensation $459,042 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $622,731 (Deputy Scout Executive) Base, Bonus, other compensation $189,411 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $261,6901 (Director of Development/) Base, Bonus, other compensation $155,602 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $177,294 (Director of Field Service) Base, Bonus, other compensation $151,268 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $194,938 (Director of Support Service) Base, Bonus, other compensation $146,684 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $185,891 (Accounting Manager) Base, Bonus, other compensation $101,634 - Total compensation (retirement / nontaxable) - $165,897 For 2019 revenue of $14.3 MM and salaries and other compensation $6.5 MM

On the experience of staff, feedback is that at Philmont, which has about 1,500 - 1,800 seasonal staff, they were indicating that 2/3 of the staff are first year. Lots of staff did not return and the "institutional knowledge" has not been passed on due to the pandemic gap.

We had discussion with the camp director in the later winter at the council camp concerning Block Schedule or Cohorts, that was NOT in their plan. They wanted to have a NORMAL camp or maybe not at all. They are in week 4 of 8 now. We went week 2. Maybe 1,000 scouts a week. Basically ran like normal. Maybe more emphasis on hand washing before meals, but no real changes. Scouts had a great time. Very very few masks, but we are in the Southeast. If they had programmed with block schedules or required cohorts we would have run our own summer camp like we did in 2020

Interesting questions and one we have asked many times in our council. It is a rather LARGE list of characters. Honestly do not know what they all do. With the advances in technology most of the mundane items should be automatic. For our Council 56 professional / hired staff Several Development and Marketing. Only about 25% are actual unit facing staff (Sr DE, DE or the apparent title District Director). I keep hearing recruitment but honestly, the local DE does not even know who the unit leaders are as we try to coordinate with the packs. Guy has two districts, maybe 30 units TOTAL and we've never really seen him. Amazing all the overhead. The old question holds true in our council - Do you raise money to have Scouting OR do you have Scouting to be able to raise money. We are definitely in the latter part of that with the council holding actual leaders that do actual Scouting in low regard. We are polite and reciprocate that feeling, basically ignoring them. COUNCIL STAFF - Seems to be 56. Professional staff and hourly non-professional. There are 5 rangers but the councils does have 3 large properties. Scout Executive/CEO 1 Deputy Scout Executive 1 Director of Safe Scouting & Support 1 Safe Scouting & Operations Director 1 Director of Camping and Customer Service 1 Director of Development & Marketing 1 Senior Development Director 1 Development Director 3 Development Team Coordinator 1 Marketing and Communications Director 1 Director of Field Service 1 Senior Field Director 1 Assistant Director of Field Service and Scoutreach Director 1 Program Director 1 Field Director 2 Senior District Executive 1 District Director 3 District Executive 11 Field Service Administration Support 1 Program Specialist 4 Program Specialist and Brand Ambassador 1 Program Center Manager/ Registrar 1 Accounting Manager 1 Accounts Receivable & Fundraising Specialist 1 Assistant Accounting Manager 1 Camping and Program Assistant 1 Customer Service Specialist 2 Building & Print Shop Manager 1 Camp Ranger 5 Executive Assistant 1 Executive Assistant Field Service 1 Executive Assistant to Scout Executive/CEO 1 Maintenance 1