Jameson76

We try to listen to feedback and conversation on the way back from outings. For planning our unit has a list of outings by month for the last 25 or so years. Helps see where and when. Scouts do the annual planning and then outdoor chair review. Typically we can make most happen. Main things are sometimes time to drive someplace and costs. Sometimes I have been surprised on what they selected. In most cases that has turned out well. Leaders work with the Scouts on specific activities during the trip. We were camping near a city with large historic downtown. We split them into patrols and did a photo scavenger hunt, things like that. Also we get feedback during BOR. During planning many years ago they asked if we had to attend the district camporee, we advised their choice, so we have not done that lately. Mostly they found it (and I quote) lame. Try to focus on activities and adventure. Last year, 2023, we did Trip to beach and national seashore island, backpacking in mountain, wide game, putt putt tourney, lock-in, summer camp, trip to State Park and gorge and waterfalls, boating and tubing, kayaking, fishing weekend at mt lake, hiking and exploring mountains with AOL visit. All requested and run by Scouts

So the YPT rules state - One-on-one contact between adult leaders and youth members is prohibited both inside and outside of Scouting. So a Scout who turns 18 is considered an Adult Leader (when registered), so this would apply. Not saying I agree, but I am not claiming to be a lawyer. As they would have to register to attend an overnight outing, seems like a trap. Same thing happens ALL the time in the real world. I have some Scouts from the troop that live on my street. Family and social friends in most cases. Their dad is working on a project, sends Johnny down for some item or tool, we go down the workshop, get the needed gear. By the book a YPT violation. Had one call me as his car would not start, parents not home. Car in the garage, rolled up and we worked on it. Had to clean contacts, etc. But it was just and I "alone" in the garage. By the book a YPT violation. Obviously the rule has a background, but, when rules like this one are in place, and seem to be overreaching it impacts the actual validity of the program, Same with 18 year old, registered so he can participate through his HS time, which we should WELCOME and not discourage.

https://fb.watch/pCdpL5TwOv/ Good video from the US Army - 194th Armored Brigade on the troops visit to Fort Moort

So on things we could never do now, in the early 80's the only requirement for climbing and rappelling was money for equipment. You could call REI in Seattle (at the time you had to call 8 - 5 PST) and they would ship you what you wanted. We tied swiss harnesses and off we went. Kids had a great time. In the summer after we climbed the troop would go down the hill and swim in a river to cool off. Once we were rappelling on a large face (175' - 200'). When I went down to be the base the length of rope was fine. As the young scouts came down, as they did not weight as much, the rope ended about 15' above the end. It was a slope, so they came off the blue line and we caught them as they jogged down the slope. Good times. Going to assume that would be frowned up nowadays

There still is a BSA Ranger program run by NEGA over the summer at Frank D Merrill and Mt Yonah. Had scouts attend over the last several years https://www.nega-bsa.org/Ranger

Well, we see where his focus is Krone highlights the importance of data management, proposing the migration of member information to a cloud-based data lake and mining that information (no doubt to monetize) to connect with BSA alumni who may not have been contacted in decades. With nearly 100 million alumni, the organization aims to use technology for targeted communication, reconnecting with former Scouts, and fostering philanthropic engagements. “Technology will help us find those people, communicate with them, update them on what’s going on in Scouting and connect them with philanthropic interests and fundraising,” (So focused on money had to say it twice) Krone said. Data analytics will be employed to gain valuable insights into membership trends, enabling more effective and targeted programming across different councils. (no doubt to monetize) As usual, main focus will be raising money. No mention in the article about growing the program and expanding the membership.

I recall that directive back in the day. The test would advise who do you call first and SE was the answer, which in my mind was incorrect. Coming from corporate world we involved law enforcement and corporate HR with any issues that would even remotely appear to violate the law. As a site GM my role was to handle the issue but also get out of the line of investigation to eliminate any conflict of interest. First call to the SE seemed to be first step in downplaying the issue. I never had to deal with a reportable issue, but my first call would have been local police. On reporting, it is brought up occasionally, but we must remember the times have changed. When I was a DE back in early 80's, neighboring district had an issue. None of the parents wanted the police involved, nobody wanted to go on record and testify, accuse, etc. They just wanted the guy gone. We were aware of the allegation, removed the volunteer from his position, and advised National, but that was about as far as we could go. If the council had been the accuser not sure we would have been able to get the investigation moving along. Without corroboration would have opened up Council and staff to defamation claims. Not saying the way we handled was the most effective way, it was really the process back 40+ years ago

I have only seen the DE wander by a meeting maybe once, and they were wanting to talk about FOS. The DE came out to see our Troop run camp summer 2020 during Covid, we sort of felt they were looking for things we may be doing wrong. One year they stopped by our campsite at camp (once in my 15 years) to say I guess hello. Bottom line, the professional staff has done zero to build bridges with our unit, the largest in the district Would agree. We did have some questions on the new recharter process as the information had not been sent to units and details we were getting from other councils was somewhat conflicting. Received the most arrogant and condescending e-mail response we had ever seen that alluded to sent information. Looped in the Field Director and guess what, not communications was ever sent. We advised the FD and SE and advised we did not want to have any further communications with the DE So a while back we had a request from the District Chairman and District Commissioner that one of our adult leader register as the Unit Commissioner for our unit, that way the position would be filled. We advised that seemed like pencil whipping a position and what value would one of our leaders bring to our unit as a commissioner as they were already actively involved with our unit. They did not get back with us.

Finally found some details on my council, not able to find past years, but I know that overall, the council has less youth than in past years. Most surprising, and possibly troubling item is that Cubs are now over 2/3 of the membership. Maybe that will mean future growth. Another possibility is that this is where professionals and council board membership team feel the easy pickings are, so that is where the efforts are. Less risk and more oversight in Cubs, so the safety folks are happy. Other interesting nuggets: Equivalent of 15.5 adult volunteers per unit, which seems high. 2.5 Eagle Scouts per Troop Though not published about 1 council employee per 275 youth SE / CEO overall compensation is about $29.50 per youth.

So I guess the DE would need to be actually visible in the district, maybe make an effort to get to know the units, and not be an arrogant and condescending person in communications with units.

What do we want from Professionals 1) Visibility - Our District has 20 units. We have 3 units at our CO. Doing math and assuming a 40 hour week, in a month the DE should be focused on what they can do to build our units close to 3.5 days. We actually have no idea what they do. 2) Marketing - The professional should be involved in building the BSA brand. Social media, local papers, etc. 3) Recruiting - Leaders and Youth, focus on growing the brand

I know locally that seems to be how they raise the money to keep the professionals being paid, you focus on the history and the nostalgic thoughts of the BSA. No mention of current operations, more "Follow Me Boys" than actually what is happening. Local council has 40%+ of the staff either directly or tangentially involved with fundraising. The DE's, who are supposed to be building scouting locally, are primarily charged with leading FOS, popcorn sales, camp cards ..... oh and maybe if time building units in the area.

Also, there is the question, for districts where are the volunteers coming from? In the good old days, you and son (now child) would be active in Cubs and then Scouts, as child aged out, you could become involved in the district, etc. etc. With the larger number of units / adults at that time there was a supply of folks to choose and select from. As has been noted, with the disregard by pros and no real cache to be a "district" or "council" volunteer, there is no pool available. And, whether one agrees or disagrees with the policy and membership changes in BSA over the last 10 years, a number of seasoned and experienced volunteers have made their personal decisions and moved on. As for newer adults being brought in with Cubs and families, they are seeing BSA as an experience and doing their time with the kids, then on to the next thing. Many are not even aware of district or council. Personally, I see even with the unit I am involved in, not many understand the governance and structure of the BSA. District is a needed evil for Eagle project approval, and that's about it. They do not bring value to the day-to-day unit operation.

This should not be underscored. BSA spent close to $1B on the Summit when there was no need and no real overall plan to fully utilize. Well, there was / is a plan, just not a realistic plan. Look over the original presentations, it is smoke, mirrors, and hope. They could easily have setup a home for the Jamboree at a much smaller area and at a much lower costs. Why they keep pouring cash into the vanity project that is the "Summit" baffles me. Sell the place and walk away.

As a reminder, Scoutreach and efforts to serve the underserved have been used by professional BSA staff to inflate membership numbers. Below are two articles, but the abuses were numerous. Alabama Boy Scouts Accused of Padding Membership (foxnews.com) Atlanta Scouts Inflated Numbers - The Washington Post A needed effort, but the administration and potential for abuse is huge.

The SE (sorry he insists on being called CEO) for Atlanta Area Council makes waaay more than that. Thus no FOS for me.

I would agree. Certainly, a nice guy no doubt, but he is retired and 67. Now that would definitely qualify him to run for President of the United States, but why not someone in their prime? An energetic, new vision for the organization, someone who can get out and represent the BSA out of bankruptcy. As a businessperson, when I see a retired individual take over a company coming out of bankruptcy, I see someone who is either a caretaker for the next "real" leader OR someone who will be shepherding the company through its sale and breakup.

In our district we have one troop rolling into ours as they are not re-chartering, the SM's son crossed over to our troop and last 2 years we have had some of them attend camp with us. Many of our scouts an theirs go to the same school, so they all know each other. In talking with another SM recently they may nor re-charter, just not enough scouts. They are not as close to us as the first one. That is 2 troops units down in a small district. 10 years ago within 2 to 3 miles of our CO (church), we are heavy suburban, there were maybe 375 Cubs and 250 Scouts, today maybe 150 Cubs and 100 Scouts. Big decrease. Do not see the numbers of years past coming back.

To put current membership in perspective, there are now about 312 youth participating in Scouts (on average) in each county in the United States. Your results may vary 979,902 participants / 3,143 counties = 311.77

Membership is still a challenge apparently

The actual numbers for Cubs / Scouts / Units appear to be a closely guarded secret. Our council makes no mention of actual numbers in any reports. If you ask the professional / board group they judge BSA's success by the amount of money raised. That is their KEY metric. There is the report to the Nation, though not able to find one for 2021 (would have been presented March 2022) that contains membership totals. Basically since 2017 the BSA has seen a reduction of more than half the membership. Venturing, Sea Scouts, and Exploring are down by much higher numbers. While some is pandemic induced, main challenges are lack of focus (overall) by the organization on actually getting folks interested in the BSA. There is no marketing, no real effort to "sell" the BSA to kids and also families. Recruiting is a challenge, but retaining those recruited is the actual issue and having a compelling program that is not burdensome.

Agree the big benefits of Scouting can happen in a troop and happens over several years as the Scout grows, matures, takes on leadership, and takes on more adventures. As an Eagle, camp staffer for many years, former DE, ASM, and with experience in training and in district leadership (way back in the day) when I involved my son he joined in 3rd grade so only maybe 3 years of Cubs, which was a gracious plenty. He was very ready to move on to the troop and get to the fun of Scouting. As a side note, when he joined the troop I was (and still am) only involved with the troop. That is where Scouting happens, in the units. So many key district and council volunteers are so far removed from actual Scouts out on actual outings, they have lost their focus. A good thunderstorm or cold night can lead to a lot of maturity growth real quickly.

While at best anecdotal, and only a snapshot, just some local observations 1) The 2 Cub packs are our CO are basically 1/2 of what they were per-pandemic. Both were in the 110 - 120 range, now both are about 55 each. As noted the fees, etc. seem to have cut into participation. 2) Our troop is about 60% of what it was, basically the challenge is the crossover numbers. Was talking with one of the AOL den leaders, they had 12 in the den when they started, now they have 3. 3) At our week at summer camp the average number of Scouts per unit in camp used to be 26 over the last few years. This summer the average scouts per unit was about 19. In talking with the Camp Director that was about average for all the weeks. While they had roughly the same number of Scouts in camp, the number of units per week was much higher The focus on Cubs has been a short term gain (questionable at best) for long term pain. Kids / families are burning out and leaving, also many families think Scouts will be similar and are not ready for the independence and autonomy of Scouts, They seem to expect programming for an 11 years old their kid can easily move into, as opposed to programming for 14 - 15 year old that their kid(s) can aspire to.

Well I think in general BSA marketing is non-existent and I would agree, we do many things and people do not know this. As an aside, if our MAIN go to marketing message is your youth will be safe with the organization, that is probably not the ONLY and best message we we need to present. If that is all we sell, then families will logically determine they can be safer NOT in scouting. In no way wanting to lessen the YPT focus, but that cannot be our reason for being.

I trust he will bring a more streamlined organization. With the number of Scouts and units, even if doubled, the BSA is bloated. The organization needs to get more efficient technology. The professional scouts need to focus on how to grow the program and not how to raise money and sell popcorn. The BSA is a youth organization that (for Scouts BSA) is somewhat unique in that at its best is youth led. The endless cub scouts and family camping is moving away from that and burning out kids and families. Look not further than the great and hallowed National Jamboree went from 40K scouts (pre-covid) to 15K this year. Organization needs to do a great bit of self reflection. Also sell Summit and cut the losses