Jump to content
PACAN

Requirements? We don't need no stinking requirements

Recommended Posts

https://ocscouts.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Scouts-BSA-COVID19-Updates-20200826.pdf

 

This is evidently official.    So you can make Life Scout without being able to demonstrate you can swim 25 FEET.

 

No one is even has to try to program.  It took us a 2 minute call to a pool to get our guys to do their rank and MB requirements and another creek float trip to do the boating ones.

 

The camping one is silly...unless you are only virtually camping in your backyard you can get 2 of these done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We've discussed this elsewhere. All these requirements can be met in a properly administered test even in a backyard pool as long as it has the appropriate features. Not ideal, but the letter of the requirement can be met. It says at least one turn, not that you may not turn more than once, so almost any larger pool with a true deep end can be used for the test. Competent test administrators have discussed how youth must complete turns without touching or pushing off from sides. As long as the swim is continuous it is achievable even in a  non Olympic sized  pool. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, PACAN said:

https://ocscouts.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Scouts-BSA-COVID19-Updates-20200826.pdf

 

This is evidently official.    So you can make Life Scout without being able to demonstrate you can swim 25 FEET.

 

No one is even has to try to program.  It took us a 2 minute call to a pool to get our guys to do their rank and MB requirements and another creek float trip to do the boating ones.

 

The camping one is silly...unless you are only virtually camping in your backyard you can get 2 of these done.

Well...I guess what was old is now new.

For a several years a Scout could get Eagle without swimming, camping, cooking, or ever actually going outdoors.  Look up the requirements from the 1973 handbook.  There were  various skill awards one could choose from.  Only required skill award was Citizenship.  There were 12 in all.  Swimming, Conservation, First Aid, Family Living, Environment, Community Living, Camping, Personal Fitness, Communications, Hiking, Cooking, Citizenship.  A Scout had to earn a total of 8, so if you did not do Camping, Cooking, Hiking, or Swimming  ..... that was OK according to the Guide to Advancement. 

Camping and Cooking were not  required merit badges.  You could earn E Prep OR Lifesaving / Personal Fitness OR Swimming OR Sports.  

No event or campout requirements for any of the various ranks

Dark times indeed during the 70's 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, yknot said:

All these requirements can be met in a properly administered test even in a backyard pool as long as it has the appropriate features.

Yes, but this has become an issue in my district in central NJ.  Many outdoor community pools didn't open this summer and indoor pools are still closed.  In more dense neighborhoods, a lot of families only have above-ground pools.  So quite a few units in our area have struggled to figure out a viable option for scouts who are hitting this requirement as their only impediment to advancing, which is a surefire way to disenchant them with the program.

This is especially an issue for new scouts who are 14-15 (as many new girls are) who might not make it to Eagle if they have to delay advancing at all for another 6 months, on top of the last 6.

And it's important to note, the requirement still exists, it's only being deferred.

 

  • Sad 2
  • Upvote 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

For a several years a Scout could get Eagle without swimming, camping, cooking, or ever actually going outdoors.  Look up the requirements from the 1973 handbook. 


I know.  I was a scout back in 1973.  The requirements were pretty easy.  I didn't get eagle anyway.

 

2 hours ago, Jameson76 said:

Dark times indeed during the 70's 

Yep.  Dark Shadows.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, from my perspective, it was tougher to get Eagle then than now.  We had to earn ONE required MB to Star, and only five to Life. That meant you were still on the uphill side of things. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eagle 1970 here, before the era of the red beret and skill awards.  I agree, things have been watered down much over the decades.  In addition to what @John-in-KCsaid, rank requirements had to be earned in sequence.  NO working on Second Class requirements until the Tenderfoot badge was awarded, etc.  FCFY put an end to all that.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, seagrinch said:

Yes, but this has become an issue in my district in central NJ.  Many outdoor community pools didn't open this summer and indoor pools are still closed.  In more dense neighborhoods, a lot of families only have above-ground pools.  So quite a few units in our area have struggled to figure out a viable option for scouts who are hitting this requirement as their only impediment to advancing, which is a surefire way to disenchant them with the program.

This is especially an issue for new scouts who are 14-15 (as many new girls are) who might not make it to Eagle if they have to delay advancing at all for another 6 months, on top of the last 6.

And it's important to note, the requirement still exists, it's only being deferred.

 

Old school - Leadership Development method, give this problem to your PLC to solve and guide them.

They might look at a map and find there is an ocean to the east :D or they might google and find nearby state parks (though summer is ending)

https://www.state.nj.us/dep/parksandforests/parks/swimming_schedule.html

or they might contact council or nearby councils (Jersey Shore?) and reserve time at camp lake ...

My $0.02,

Edited by RememberSchiff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, RememberSchiff said:

Old school - Leadership Development method, give this problem to your PLC to solve and guide them.

Not my unit but one I know from friends and Roundtable discussions.

They had a group of parents who decided that COVID was an excuse to make formal what had already been taking place under the prior SM. They were going to completely take over planning from the PLC. The scouts would be given a list of approved locations and events they could do. The head of this band of parents insisted it was still scout-led because the scouts got to select from the approved list. The plan apparently was to have the parents in charge attend the PLC to inform the scouts what they could and could not do in the coming year. One or two scouts would be invited to "participation" in this parents committee to keep it scout-led.

Fortunately the SM squashed this and made clear that the PLC develops the annual plan and that the SPL presents it to the committee. Not the other way around.

That didn't sit well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The no swimming required in "being deferred" for what could be years.    Still 4 and 6 months from 1st to Life and at least 6 more months before a scout is even eligible to Eagle.  Haven't seen or heard of a 6 month Life having their EBOR since the 11 year old in California.

 

As said...a little effort can get all of these deferrals done on time.

Edited by PACAN
additional stuff

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like the idea that the requirements are deferred.  Our unit was running into trouble with this and were going to have a good group of scouts unable to advance at the pace they wanted.  Our "solution" is that we just did finally find someone who has a pond we can use, so we're scheduling a one time only swimming requirements afternoon.  I hate it, we never schedule advancement only or even advancement centric activities.  We schedule fun scouting activities and out of them arise opportunities to work on requirements if that's what the scout wants to do.

I'd rather the requirement be deferred until a real opportunity arises and let the scout continue to move forward.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Owls_are_cool said:

How would we defer these items in scoutbook?

The solution I came up with is approve them through NOW but place a note "deferred" and set a reminder to yourself for January 1, 2021 to go back and review.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Owls_are_cool said:

How would we defer these items in scoutbook?

 

I would leave the individual requirements blank (SC 5b and FC 6a) in Scoutbook if the Scout has not passed them yet.

Scoutbook has a Notepad & Comments feature that is available for each individual requirement and at the bottom of each rank, merit badge, and award.  You could add a note to First Class / Star / Life ranks and maybe one or more of the individual requirements that the Scout still needs to pass the swim test (the first requirement for each rank, Scoutmaster conference, board of review, etc.).

At Scoutmaster conferences and boards of review, check to see if the BSA's COVID-19 swim test deferment is still in effect and whether or not the Scout has passed the swim test.  You could also write notes in the Scout's Handbook saying that the Scout still needs to pass the swim test for the next rank(s).

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...