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The TCC in the meeting last week with the Local Councils (outside of mediation confidentiality) discussed at length how the financial analysis of every Council was individual and intended to allow the Council's credit rating to remain at investment grade AFTER each contributes to the settlement. As the example in the objection shows, this was a VERY deep dive into each Council. There was no baseline for contributions across all Councils. It was independent and done to demonstrate what Councils were able to afford given their significant claim exposure.

Okay everyone. Let's all step back for a bit. I can lock the thread and force it but I'd rather not.

When have I belittled you and diminished what you went through? While I may not have had to deal with the trauma you had, I have dealt with this issue, and yes I have had some mental/emotional issues. Two friends were abused by the SM of the first troop I was in. At the time something didn't seem right, now I know what it was, grooming. I left before anything could happen, but my friends were his next targets. I understand why you didn't report it, because I didn't either. But when I found out what happened after I left, I wish did. I had to report one of the other adults in a uni

"Family scouting" is NOT Scouting. I have experienced this scenario with a 'family friendly" troop. There will be parents who refuse to let their Scouts grow, they will interfere and they will ignore anyone inside, and especially outside, of the groups. This is a sore subject with me as 'family scouting" was affecting my two older sons and was ruining their experience, and almost destroyed the troop they left. And upon reflection I do not think the troop fully recovered. And what really saddens me is that for all the new folks joining BSA who have no idea what Scouting truly is, this "fa

For the most part, local councils accumulated thier endowments through designated gifts, wills, excess large gifts etc. They built their camps through capital campaigns and land gifts. Many still have mortgages. I see the taking of these properties as a reset. Today’s scouts will pay a higher annual registration fee, but it is not more than what is charged by other groups/sports teams that usually only last a few months. For the most part, the current participants have invested very little in these camp assets beyond buying a brick or special patch to held build some camp improveme

I first clicked on the link from Kosnoff's twitter feed and it worked without payment required but now it is paywalled. I find incognito mode on the browser sometimes allows access to some articles.

There are comments about STEM, women, school, etc. that are missing something. Scouts would enjoy a program raising chickens in their back yard if they actually got to make a chicken coop and raised the chickens rather than talked about the different types of chickens, safety requirements for raising chickens and presented a report to their patrol about different types of chicken coops. It's not what they work on, it's that they do something. The real challenge to this program is coming up with all of these ideas that have scouts doing something every single week that builds into eit

https://scoutingwire.org/keeping-the-cub-scout-adventure-program-relevant-for-todays-families/ May 11, 2021 Every year, Cub Scout Adventures are reviewed to identify trends and determine interests of our youth, den leaders and Cub Scout families. In our ongoing efforts to keep the Cub Scouting Adventure program relevant to today’s families, Cub Scout elective Adventures are reviewed for both content and popularity. The most recent review has identified 19 elective Adventures that do not meet the standards of youth and den leader engagement, with the lowermost being earned by less t

Source: https://www.scouting.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Restructure-of-Councils-by-Territory.pdf We already saw 1 Class 500 merger. Who is next? 64 Class 500 83 Class 400 56 Class 300 33 Class 200 16 Class 100

I have to laugh at some naïveté amongst the local councils When the tort lawyers finish with the National Council, they will rank order the local councils from richest to poorest. They’re going to come after the richest councils, and they will do their damndest to break any covenants on gifts that they can. Mark my words.

I do not think that those of us lucky enough not to have been abused are experiencing the same degree of distress over this case as those who were abused. No matter what Scouting means to us, no matter how much we look fondly back on our time in the Scours, no matter how much we hope it will still be there in ten years, the fact remains that our sorrow over the loss of the program is not as life-shatteringly impactful as reliving this abuse must be for survivors. They've lived with this for years, decades, or lifetimes. They've turned to drink to dull their pain. Many are in prison.

Hell maybe an exaggeration and a bad choice if words. It is not at all comparable, so they shouldn’t be compared. They are not the same type of loss. Many volunteers have made this their life’s work. It is not kind to try to diminish the sacrifices they made in money and time, and opportunity costs. Time not spent with spouses etc trying to support and build up an organization that is now being destroyed. These people spent months of vacation time over the years and years worth of weekends. To claim they are not entitled to their frustrations and anger and emotion of the loss is to

It's also hell for those of use who are boots on the ground who have given years of our lives to the organization and have done our utmost to make it better.

You're not alone, my friend. This has been and continues to be absolutely brutal for many, many of us abuse survivor claimants. Absolutely and unequivocally. I don't know how much you know about PTSD/CPTSD, triggering events, flashbacks, dissociation, mania, hypo-mania, depression, suicidality, self injury, eating disorders and all the other co-morbidities that track with PTSD/CPTSD, but I can tell you from daily personal experience, the has been hell.

https://whyy.org/articles/boy-scouts-abused-in-other-states-sue-in-n-j-using-untested-strategy/

Okay. Now it's "right education." Got it. Say wha? Did you read that the BSA Executive who handled that case "on the ground" was aware of the drinking and pornography in my Unit? Huh. "100% focused on doing the right thing by the youth"? Okie dokie. Whatever. You and I are "never the twain shall meet" on this score...

AT THE TIME OF THE ABUSE, National HQ was in New York? NY law applies. AT THE TIME OF THE ABUSE, National HQ was in New Jersey? NJ law applies. Etc. There's also an argument that place of incorporation doesn't matter. 1) Boy Scouts of America (HQ) was registered as a not for profit operating in the state? That grants jurisdiction. And many states require that if you operate at charity/not for profit in the state, you register as a "foreign" not for profit annually. For example, BSA has registered with the South Dakota Secretary of State since at least 2006. 2) Boy

One of the reasons National BSA has all these claims, is that they had New York as their HQ for a long time, followed by New Jersey as their HQ. That went all the way until 1979. So to me, the state laws apply to national allow lookback windows. So 100% of claims from 1979 and prior are within state laws of New York/New Jersey. My question is with National HQ in Texas and 1980 and later. How are those claims valid? Some would definitely be valid based on Texas SOLs, but I'm curious how the claims in 1980s and most of the 1990s could be valid when National HQ is in Texas.

Maybe? The point is that BSA is asking you to give up any claim you have today OR MAY HAVE IN THE FUTURE regarding your sexual abuse. So, even if NOW, TODAY you have no actionable claim (no SoL lookback) someday, you may. If this plan closes the door on ANY claim against BSA, now (Sol lookback states) or in the future (state legislature approves a SoL lookback), you get a vote. At least, that is how I read it.

A key point is deep pockets. Having each LC handle their own breaks up the incentive of deep pockets. Let the cases be handled on their merits and even be grouped at the council level. But the national scale to combine it all together is just too vast and not controllable. If I was a LC SE, I'd 100% consider this strategy. Being lumped in together in one massive negotiation escalates the issues beyond control. We are not supposed to raise the fees issue here, but the others are arguing about BSA not negotiating in good faith. That's wrong too. This is a legal case at this point with

At least with parents I have been encountering of late, no it won't help. One of the adults interfering was "trained." He did the online SM Specific and ITOLS at summer camp. Still let his child shirk his duties, still jumped in and taught classes and/or do stuff for his child, still allowed his child to leave his buddy and sneak into his tent. And the person telling me the 411 Committee member was not only trained, but a 3 beader to boot. Edited: I really dislike online learning because it does not allow for questions and answers, not does it discussion.

I like the idea of a patrol focus to teach that skill. Give patrols a bunch of options rather than a camporee style program. It could be advancement, skills, or just fun with boats, shooting, hiking or whatever else the camp supports. But the same thing should be done for the adults. They need something to do to keep them from annoying scouts. That might solve @Eagle94-A1's concerns. Training for patrol method. Put them in their own patrols for doing some fun/skills. Maybe roundtables and all the commissioner stuff could be done as well? And get troop committee meetings out of the way as

Agreed. I think the judge should use the US Trustee's objection to: - Eliminate the CO/LC/Insurance settlement talk ... they are excluded from further discussions. They are not part of this bankruptcy. Lift the stay of any lawsuits against these groups. - Set a timeline to determine HA base status & JP Morgan loan. BSA .. provide your justification with documentation, or rule that they are non restricted assets and the loan is not secured (JP won't get back 100%). - Once #2 is done, ask BSA to submit a plan. Only argument then is how much cash they need to run the opera

Perhaps. The problem with this. 1)How much will councils be able to pay lawyers to defend against sex abuse cases. Anyone can sue. Even outside the SOL window. 2) As councils start going bankrupt and losing their FOS money and camps, who will donate to other councils? I personally would hold back donating to my council until after bankruptcy as I would be concerned my donations would be used for lawyers and payouts. Others may feel the same. 3) How will recruiting and retention go when local media is discussing specific cases of sexual abuse at your local council? It

There has been a great emphasis for healthy local councils to accumulate cash and stock investments as endowments. Why? Years ago, many councils were almost exclusively funded by community chests....aka United Way. Well, UW funding is no longer strong in many areas. In many cases, the BSA is basically defunded especially for the amount of work that is invested to hope o get those funds. Many dollars have been solicited to build a fund to replace those dollars. A lot of the people who donated the funds are below ground. They won’t be too upset. Again anther reset. Unless you a

I would argue that is mostly true. Regardless of how this bankruptcy goes, the local councils only receive operating income from FOS, camping fees, investments, supply sales, etc. FOS funds support annual operations. Those funds are not invested in capital assets and primarily fund the day to day operations and salaries of the nonprofit. Same for any United Way funds that are not specific for some program service.

I got a donation request yesterday from council that insisted all funds stay local.

I promise that EVERYONE reading this thread understands your view on the issues. The horse is not just dead, it's now nothing more than a stain on the ground with some skin and bones shards mixed in. Though leaving only the small camp wouldn't really be a reasonable compromise. If you've got 14k scouts using 3 camps, while there may well be excess capacity that would allow for some consolidation, you can't take all the scouts from 3 different camps (even half-utilized camps) and cram them into the smallest one.

I can see that. Still troubles me. Sounds like he never existed and the incident certainly didn't make the papers or hit the grapevine. I would've known about it. The place was full of my family from top to bottom and all new I was in Scouts. In part, that's my problem. Delete, redact, erase, cross out, white out, take off the rolls...whatever. It and he were gone from view and out of sight for those who should've been made aware to beware. I understand why parents didn't pursue, but what a mess, regardless.

Child Sexual Abuse. Detailed the incident. I don't know that the particulars are relevant or is that not what you're asking? I see no indication that there was a confrontation of any kind. Not noted in the police report, filed by the parents with a statement from the Scout. I'm now jaded by the "deletion" and wouldn't be at all surprised if it was a backdated resignation. I hear your point and it's valid. Neither of us know for sure. The SE is alive and well and living large. Maybe I'll call him. Not in the BSA, but a business man. The "deletion"? If that's what you mea

I've seen "deleted" discussed in the past. From an old registrar, it was reflecting how they tracked registered leaders. Deleted was not hiding. It was removing the registration.

Institutional Representative (IR) evolved into Scouting Coordinator (SC) which evolved into today's Charter Organization Representative (COR). Today, the old IR is somewhat split in two: Institutional Head (IH) and Chartered Organization Rep (COR). The example I give is the pastor of the church sponsoring the unit is the IH, the junior pastor or congregation member who is suppose to be overseeing the unit is the COR. On rare occasion the IH and the COR is the same, but that's rare (I've never seen it personally, but I've heard it has happened).

I was under the impression JTE was looked upon as being not a "true" measure of "real, true" scouting and therefore shunned by "true" scouters. I know JTE gold troops that function as Cub Scouts 2.0, so I don't know that JTE is going to help weed out "bad" units.

I think the first question is what does the youth of America need. In other words, is the aims of scouting (as written by BSA) still what is needed. Perhaps I would add one more ... "grit" .. but perhaps that is simply a subset of character development that I think is lacking in youth today. Overall, I think the aims of scouting are appropriate. Then, how about the methods. I personally believe the methods are appropriate (if implemented well and in a balanced approach). I still believe youth and parents are looking for an organization that instills the aims of scouting, using th

Good response, thanks. Let me start with your uniform statement; I'm not sure where the negative uniform in the youths eyes is comi8ng from. My observation is more the adults that think it negative and project that on the youths. But, when talking to most scouts, they don't mind the uniform, and in fact, the girls scouts new uniform has gone back to the more traditional scouting style. All that being said to point out that we hear a lot of adults perceptions of the program that don't seem to hold true in the general perception. Either the perception is a personal bias, or it's a local bi

It is not released. The actual formula takes into account membership and financial situation. A very large and financially healthy council is a 100 whereas a small and/or financially challenged council is a 500. Councils who are of average size and financially fine but not outstanding are 300. This is the first time I recall seeing the list publicly.

mazel tov!

“Scouting” is all that. No pretending. It’s just doing that without Scouts BSA. How many adults does it take to grab a tarp go into some woods and spend the evening? To walk to the nearest museum? To visit a municipal building? To do some good in the world. (Answer: it’s a nonnegative number less than 1.) Scouting will continue as long as there are boys, girls, and woods. It just won’t be distributed fairly to all youth. It will have increased safety risks. If National averages are correct, it will be twice to ten times more likely to expose a youth to sexual and physical abuse as

Well.. I am CC now.

Now I can answer your question, since this has little to do with CH 11. Typical scouts spend about 1.5 hours a week at meetings and one weekend a month at campouts. When they get into leadership and they do a good job the meeting time probably doubles. And could double again for SPL/ASPL. Adults are more like storing data on disk drives, time spent is not a problem until the spouse complains (or drive fills up). We estimated that for each scout in the troop all the time spent by adults as a whole was one hour a week. So with 50 scouts, the total time could get to 50 hours of adult ti

I remain absolutely stunned that councils still think they can skate on this. They can't. Just sit back and watch. These statutes are going to tear every BSA council apart.

Yep. Which is what BSA should have done from the start (20/20 hindsight). Instead, they tried to cut a cloth that would cover EVERYONE for EVERYTHING and spent 1+ years and 100 million on: nothing. Now, we'll get to where we should have been in fall 2020: 1) How much of the $1.4 billion in BSA assets are subject to be sold/transferred to a victims fund. 2) How many victims? And how much? And how severe? 3) Take the amount of money from 1), divided by the information from 2), and start sending out checks.

I’m not following. They had him resign, and then investigated? Sorry, help me understand the events. I can’t relate to what you are going through. What I can say is that when the big batch of internal files came out 10 (?) years ago via the law firm in California, I read a few. Just thinking about reading them, gives me about 5 vivid recollections to the incidents. Just READING them has burned them into my memory. When people question certain YPT rules, I literally get put back into the incidents in my mind. It causes a pause each time. I can’t relate if it was me in the incident. Ju

It isn't. If you want this over and done by Thanksgiving, handing the keys over to the TCC is the smart play. If you want this dragging out for another 2+ years (and that's what happened with some of these Catholic dioceses), let BSA keep driving.

Push has now come to shove in the demands for Chubb to turn over information on the sweetheart Hartford deal. https://casedocs.omniagentsolutions.com/cmsvol2/pub_47373/495e3a37-0491-4f58-b317-a06ea325238b_3591.pdf You all remember a few weeks ago when I mentioned there were "requests" and "interrogatories"? Yeah, that was the nice, nice way of asking for things. The attorneys have for the Coalition are now shoving. And what do they want Chubb to produce? EVERYTHING regarding regarding The Hartford Sweetheart deal The BSA Reorg plan, versions 1.0 and 2.0 The