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Accidental shooting at Aloha Council camp news


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Just saw this story come out from Hawaii aloha council regarding a scout accidental shooting at a scout camp a few days ago.  Initial information provided well by the news source, not bias.  AGAIN just initial story and information.  I find it very difficult to understand why an event that happens in one council sends media and information request to national, who may not themselves know the facts, especially when  they are over 3500 miles away.  It seems to me councils need to be the ones to deal with and go to in situations like this, not national.  Looking forward to seeing the final report.

 

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Just to be clear, accidental death, sometimes called involuntary manslaughter, is still a crime. In the military it can lead to dishonorable discharge and/or jail. An example I found of involuntary ma

Intentional or not has nothing to do with if the incident was the result of negligence.  Negligence occurs when someone fails to do something, like make sure a loaded semi-automatic weapon is not able

Certainly to me, having a larger caliber semi-auto rifle loaded and unsecured at a BSA owned rifle range to me says something has gone wrong. Sure, its an accident, but that's the sort of thing where

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I read a bunch of the articles on it. Not much to gleam other than the natilnal statement says it was a unit activity. Assuming those words were chosen carefully, it is interesting. Also one talks about not knowing what gun was used, one did say that personally owned firearms were at the range. I wish the key safety failure was released on incidents like this, but rarely do we get to hear what truly failed everyone. It would be great to know so that we could all learn. 

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Privately-owned rifles were found at the camp, although no info is available on whether one of those rifles was involved in the accident. The camp policy prohibits outside firearms being brought in to camp. So at a minimum, standard camp firearms policies were not being followed.

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What is not being admitted is that there very likely are these types of camp rule violations in most camps.  We do not search people, or not usually, and we all have known of inidividuals that ignore the rules and bring unauthorized items into the camps.  Most do not expose such violations, and a few may simply keep something with "camping" gear and forget it is there.  It is when these items are involved in incidents, or simply exposed,  that we become aware.  Simialrly it highly likely that alcohol could be found in a large percentage of searches, along with larger than useful (for normal use) blades, yes firearms, possibly even fireworks, and varioous recreational drugs.  We are dealing with people, and many have big egos and think they are immune to the rules.

Until we get the larger picture, we likely are better off not passing judgment. Hopefully an answer will be found, and changes or legal responses applied in a reasonable and balanced way.

 

Edited by skeptic
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1 hour ago, FireStone said:

Privately-owned rifles were found at the camp, although no info is available on whether one of those rifles was involved in the accident. The camp policy prohibits outside firearms being brought in to camp. So at a minimum, standard camp firearms policies were not being followed.

Privately owned rifles could easily mean the ranger's or someone else authorized to store a rifle at the range.

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15 hours ago, FireStone said:

Privately-owned rifles were found at the camp, although no info is available on whether one of those rifles was involved in the accident. The camp policy prohibits outside firearms being brought in to camp. So at a minimum, standard camp firearms policies were not being followed.

"Standard" policies can be extended by special permission.  In the past, units doing shooting sports training have worked with the camp, council and shooting sports credentialed leaders to bring unique or varied guns to camp.  There were often limits such as the gun would not be shot; ammunition that fit the gun would not be brought; the gun would be secured when not being demonstrated; and, that the camp ranger and others would do a special check-in for the unit.  

Edited by fred8033
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  • 3 weeks later...

9-20-22 (Update) Boy Scout Camp Shooting Investigation Completed

Media Release

Hawai’i Island police have deferred numerous firearm-related offenses to County Prosecutor’s for review. The offenses stem from the August 28, 2022, incident at the Camp Honokaia Boy Scout Camp, near Honokaʻa, that left a 12-year-old boy dead.

Area I Criminal Investigation Section detectives initiated 23 firearm-related offenses, one of which is for criminally negligent storage of a firearm. The offenses are against three men who were at the scene of the incident, and have been identified as the registered owners of multiple firearms. In total, 18 firearms and various ammunition was recovered.

Police conducted extensive interviews with the adults and minors present at the rifle range. The investigation concluded that an unsupervised male minor picked up a loaded firearm and as he placed it back down, it discharged, subsequently shooting the victim. The shooting incident is believed to be accidental, and police do not suspect foul play in the 12-year-old boy’s death.

The firearm that was discharged is owned by the father of the minor that picked it up. No criminal charges have been filed against the minor. 

An autopsy concluded that the victim died as a result of a single gunshot wound.

Although police have concluded this investigation, they ask anyone who may have additional information to contact the police department’s non-emergency number at (808) 935-3311, or Detective Jeremy Kubojiri of the Area I Criminal Investigation Section, at (808) 961-2378 or email him at Jeremy.Kubojiri@hawaiicounty.gov.

Source:

https://www.hawaiipolice.com/9-20-22-update-boy-scout-camp-shooting-investigation-completed

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16 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

18 firearms and various ammunition was recovered.

I'm curious if these were 22s and a variety of shotguns or something beyond what is approved by Scouts BSA.

17 minutes ago, RememberSchiff said:

The investigation concluded that an unsupervised male minor picked up a loaded firearm and as he placed it back down

It sounds like the guns were not stored properly. There should be no chance a unsupervised scout should have access to firearms at camp.  

Hopefully a warning to anyone who doesn't take the shooting sports rules seriously.  I've never seen anything close to this at any camp I attended.  Firearms are always secured when the range is closed. 

Sad story, hopefully never repeated. 

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What is still not clear to me is why were they then at the Scout range?  Were they trespassing on the range, or did they somehow get some kind of use pemission for the range?  It the firearms are privatedly owned, what is the Scout connection beyond the range itself?  What am I misssing?

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7 hours ago, Eagle1993 said:

... I've never seen anything close to this at any camp I attended.  ... 

Me too.  Shooting sports rules have always been seriously followed.   This incident sounds like negligence.  The question is how egregious.  

 

 

7 hours ago, skeptic said:

What is still not clear to me is why were they then at the Scout range?  Were they trespassing on the range, or did they somehow get some kind of use permission for the range?  It the firearms are privately owned, what is the Scout connection beyond the range itself?  What am I missing?

We are missing lots on this story.  ...  Examples ...

how many scouts were present?  Three adults sounds like minimum to open a shooting range for a troop shoot at the camp.  If the troop brought 20 to 30 scouts and the range had 8 to 10 shooting spots, then having 18 guns could be reasonable.  Spares.  Not sure which are shooting well or which sights were well aligned.  

privately owned?  could be shooting instructor let his personal collection of 22s be used.

23 charges?  Were there really 23 different issues or one or two issues and trying to find the right charge?  My gut says journalism written to be inflammatory.  Sounds like 5 or more against each of three men, somehow totaling 23.  Also prosecutors could be charging all even slightly possible crimes.  Then, let it resolve thru a trial or plea deals. 

My gut says the men failed to follow required procedures and failed to secure ammunition.  With today's attitude on blame and guns, the death of a youth with a gun will result in a charges whether or not someone could be convicted of a crime.  

Edited by fred8033
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9 hours ago, skeptic said:

What is still not clear to me is why were they then at the Scout range?  Were they trespassing on the range, or did they somehow get some kind of use pemission for the range?  It the firearms are privatedly owned, what is the Scout connection beyond the range itself?  What am I misssing?

I too have many questions. Keep in mind this is a Island of Hawaii Police Department Media Release not their more detailed Police Report headed to the Prosecutor's Office. I have read better written media releases. Perhaps a journalist will further investigate this story.

Criminal Police Reports

Complete reports are not available until the case is closed, adjudicated, or the statute of limitations has passed. Victims needing a report for insurance purposes may receive a partial report prior to this. At all times, a redacted copy is provided to preserve confidentiality as afforded by Chapter 92-F of the Hawaiʻi Revised Statutes.

IMO the most serious charges would be regarding the accidental death, then there are questions regarding licenses, ownership, possession responsibility. I found this regarding handling and storage of firearms around minors

State of Hawaii Firearm Laws and Ordinances

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/guide/hawaii-firearms-statutes-and-codes/download

Searching the above link

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Edited by RememberSchiff
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2 hours ago, fred8033 said:

23 charges?  Were there really 23 different issues or one or two issues and trying to find the right charge?  My gut says journalism written to be inflammatory.  Sounds like 5 or more against each of three men, somehow totaling 23.  Also prosecutors could be charging all even slightly possible crimes.  Then, let it resolve thru a trial or plea deals. 

 

Yup.  Sounds like a clear case of charge stacking to me; which I personally find to be a reprehensible abuse of our criminal justice system. 

Edited by elitts
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If a child is dead -- no matter where -- when supposedly responsible adults were present I sure hope there would be a lot of charges.  I have to say I am not finding that the direction this conversation is taking to be worthy of scouting.

Edited by yknot
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