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Oldscout448

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Everything posted by Oldscout448

  1. Oldscout448

    Family Scouting Coming to You!

    ANOTHER rebranding?
  2. Oldscout448

    First ceremony

    Today was the first time that Standing Bear Productions LLC, did an Arrow of Light ceremony. The cubs, siblings, and parents loved it and the CM asked us back for next years crop. They had an little speech planned which introduced us as OA, but we asked them to omit that part.
  3. Oldscout448

    Son invited to OA. What does it all mean?

    WWW means work, work, work! Lol When I joined the ceremonies team I was told " If you think you worked hard a a candidate, you ain't seen nothin yet" I thought it had to be an exaggeration. I soon found out otherwise, but the OA was the highlight of my scouting life. Even more inspiring than watching the sunrise while standing on the Tooth of Time. I too still keep the Vigil. We seen to have gone far afield from the OP here. Sorry W.M. passions run a bit high for a lot of us.
  4. Oldscout448

    Son invited to OA. What does it all mean?

    Not quite yet it aint. At least not everywhere. I aim to keep feeding it as long as I can find sticks.
  5. Oldscout448

    Son invited to OA. What does it all mean?

    Is it more work? Yes. Is it worth it? IMHO Absolutely. In my neck o the woods the white sash with a red Arrow is considered to be quite an honor. It means that the one who wears it is looked up to by the scouts in his troop, as an example of what a scout should be. Three of my son's were elected to the order, and went to their ordeal. Two of them loved it, made many new friends, went to lots of chapter and lodge events, some just for fun, some for training, and took a great deal of new found enthusiasm back to their troop. Their brother didn't really like the Order, and dropped out after a few months. I guess I'm saying it will depend on your son, as well as the lodge/chapter into which he is inducted. Some are great full of cheerful scouts who find great satisfaction in serving others. Who enjoy the company of other older scouts who are likewise dedicated to improving their respective troops. It's not an uncommon sight to see 3 or 4 SPLs sitting at a table, talking over some common problem. Sadly a few lodges are just awful. Some are just ok. Hmm,sounds like scout troops. I would encourage him to go for it. its not like he is signing a binding contract. Oldscout Ps. I see that Barry makes a very good point. Does your son see this as an honor and a privilege ? Or just another patch?
  6. I think the critical question is why the older scouts don't care. If they have grown past the " gotta have more bling" stage and care more about having fun and teaching the younger scouts then yes that's a good thing. Bur we had a district camporee that the same troops patrols" won" year after year. Even when it was very clear that they didn't. Somehow the numbers always got tweaked just enough for them to win. After a while the older scouts just stopped competing. Sometimes they are smarter than we think.
  7. Oldscout448

    Just got 1 girl

    and co-ed troops seem to be the norm around here. Just not on paper.
  8. Ummm, as a general rule, males are stronger than females. It's a well established fact.
  9. Oldscout448

    Vintage Uniform Question

    So help me out here, did we not change to the red berets and multi colored rank patches in '72? Second class was green, first class red, star was blue. I forget the rest.
  10. Oldscout448

    Vintage Uniform Question

    There are a few of us here who were scouts in the 60s or even 50s. I joined up in '69 but the big uniform change was in '72 or '73. Something about Oscar de la somethingorother. I don't think I have a Guide to Insignia anymore, but I do have the handbooks. Yes, Knots were worn by adults they were a different colored background than todays versions. The eagle as I recall was a toss up. A lot of adults still wore their Eagle badge, I saw a few from the 40's that were square rather than oval, it was not correct by the strict rules but I never heard of any of the Patch Police having the nerve to call them on it. A lot of our Scoutmasters had spent a few years as grunts, shooting at Nazis in France and Germany, or fighting their way across the Pacific. They didn't put up with much parade ground fluff.
  11. Oldscout448

    NATIONAL POLICY: AOL and Crossover Ceremonies

    The scouts hereabouts read the new ceremonies skits, and proclaimed there was no way they were about to do them. If a pack want to write its own ceremony, fine they will do that. If the pack requests the ceremony that the OA used to do, these young men will oblige. Without sashes, uniforms, or any mention of the Order. They ask for no money, no fame, they do it on their own time, driving their own cars, using their own stuff, just so the cubs will have the ceremony they have waited and worked for since they were Bobcats. I have no authority to forbid them to do so, i'm not their parents. In fact I am rather proud of them, I think this qualifies as " cheerful service" be it with or without a sash. IMO the huffy inductions adviser needs to be asked who is more important here. The ivory towered self proclaimed judges of what is acceptable to wear, say, and do? or the scouts?
  12. Oldscout448

    Youth Protection Clarification Question

    I would be very concerned if I had scouts/parents who were not trying to get around rules that under the guise of safety forbid the function of the unit that is very core of Boy Scouting. My boys are not "sneaking". They have honourably and politely stated that they have no intention of following rules they consider to be both ludicrous and antithetical to Scouting, and that if the adults decide to " kick them off the team" they will at least go out with their heads held high.
  13. Oldscout448

    NATIONAL POLICY: AOL and Crossover Ceremonies

    Would it not be much more appropriate for a crossover to be conducted by the troop into which the cub is entering? Preferably his den chief, rather than some scout wearing a white sash that the cub has never seen before and in all probability will never see again.
  14. Oldscout448

    NATIONAL POLICY: AOL and Crossover Ceremonies

    I still fail to see why the sash is to be worn. What does the OA have to do with either of the new " ceremonies"?
  15. Oldscout448

    2018 Membership numbers are in

    Exactly what I've been hearing, "We want to go have fun with our friends, hiking/camping/fishing, we have our own cars, gear, and $. Why do you imagine we need you and your silly rules?
  16. Oldscout448

    SM Preventing 1st-Years From Being On Ballot

    a bit confused here... All we ask the SM for is to point out the SPL, TOAR, make sure 50 percent of the scouts are present, and sign his name. The OA election team then explains the Order, and the election process, and with the TOAR, conducts the election, counts the ballots, and submits the paperwork.
  17. Oldscout448

    SM Preventing 1st-Years From Being On Ballot

    Another point submitted for your consideration, how do most of the first year scouts do on the Ordeal? Do they have the skills to stay warm and dry on the first test? Do they have the education to understand what symbolism is and how it is used? If not, they are simply unable to understand the ceremonies. Do they even have the vocabulary? (and if you can't understand the ceremonies you don't even know why you are there) Have they developed the mental discipline to maintain silence over a prolonged period? Most of all, do they have the maturity to understand that an Obligation, sworn upon a Scouts Honor, should be serious stuff. That the Brotherhood of the Arrow is not just a kids tree fort gang?
  18. Oldscout448

    2019 GUIDE TO SAFE SCOUTING

    Do we need to start telling National to stop making it more and more difficult to deliver a program that even resembles Scoutimg?
  19. Oldscout448

    2019 GUIDE TO SAFE SCOUTING

    Not tying to play the devils advocate here, I'm just not sure what the current rules would say given the following situation. Which although hypothetical could very easily happen in our troop. A Cub Scout we'll call him Jimmy who is 10 years old , bridges over in March and wants to join his 12 year old brothers Patrol. It is a mixed-age patrol, the oldest being the patrol leader, a life Scout who just turned 14. The patrol uses 4 man tents, on the May campout only 4 scouts from the patrol can come. Two 13 year olds, the PL, and Jimmy. Do the current rules stipulate that Jimmy must sleep alone in a separate tent?
  20. Oldscout448

    Proud of our ceremonies team

    From the back page of the Brotherhood Ceremony 1949. Song of the Scouts. by Edwin Markham We are the boys of the helping hand.Banded together for the good of all; We cheer the steps of the ones that stand,And we lift the ones that fall. Our feet are willing, our hearts are light,And we take the road with a cherry song; For we are the friends of every right,And the foes of every wrong . Soldiers are we of the nobler warsThat great souls fight for the common good; We follow the call of the morning stars,In a knightly brotherhood.
  21. Oldscout448

    Proud of our ceremonies team

    The old maxim seems to apply here When everyone is special, no one is.
  22. Oldscout448

    Proud of our ceremonies team

    1 in 10 was the old ratio, if memory serves. How about requiring the camping MB? I'm not sure how many scouts could camp 30 to 45 nights in two years.
  23. Oldscout448

    Proud of our ceremonies team

    @shortridge you ask a very good question, I've been mulling it over for a few hours and I'm still not sure I have a clear answer. Having done dozens of Elections I recognized the words at once and have no argument with any of them. But here are my thoughts as of right now . In our lodge we play a rather dull video from National so that all the words are always exactly correct rather that read from a script or recite it from memory. It's a lot easier. BUT, you can see the eyes of many of the scouts glaze over about one minute in. Especially the younger ones. They're just sitting there letting the sound wash over them not paying any attention at all. Then they vote for their buddies. I believe we need to train our election teams much better so that they don't need the video crutch. They need to be able to sit down with the scouts and hold their attention while explaining what the order is what it stands for and how the election works. In short just recite the script without sounding like you're reciting the script. I am quite aware that I'm coming at this from a ceremonies view point, but I think that's what we need we need to convey our enthusiasm and our earnestness about the order. The other difficulty is that many of the Scouts have been instructed previously by their scoutmaster to vote for everyone on the ballot. I have been there when the ballots are counted and certain troops, where every Scout gets at least 90% of the vote. Year after year. You may argue that perhaps that troop simply has amazingly exceptional Scouts. Sorry, I've watched them at the ordeal I've watched them at Camporees, they're not. In fact those troops tend to have the highest percentage of sash and dash in the entire District.
  24. Oldscout448

    Proud of our ceremonies team

    Come to the Dark Side, we have red lightsabers and black capes
  25. Oldscout448

    Proud of our ceremonies team

    You mean a Brotherhood of Scouting honor campers? Who exemplify the Oath and Law in their daily lives? What a novel idea! (Sarcasm mode off) I think there are three main ways to change the Order back to a highly esteemed organization . One change the election criteria. The main focus from the order to the troop should be " We want your best both in skills and character. " not " We accept anyone with a first class badge and one summer camp under his belt." Two. Make the Ordeal a real challenge. Have elongomats who know what the tests represent and can explain their importance to the candidates. .And if a candidate clearly refuses to abide by the rules, we need to have the ability to politely boot him out. ( Oy vey! The stories I could tell) Three. We need to do more to help scouting than set up and tear down summer camps. We need to: run local training for junior leaders, help out troops who are dying, or just starting up, staff camporees, offer some semi high adventure to the local troops (50 miler?) In short we need to be more than a group with colorful flaps who main focus is electing and indicting the maximum number of new members so that we can say " Our numbers are increasing, so everything is all right" Is it? Is it really? Oldscout. (Mikemossin Wanachk) Ps: and you are quite right National doesn't have a clue.
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