yknot

In some ways, scouts is a very solitary pursuit and not at all team oriented. My scouts biggest complaint when they crossed over from cubs to scouts is that they lost that sense of shared adventure with their den. I know it's supposed to morph into a patrol model, but when you are in an area where parents are pushing their kids to tear their way up the Eagle Trail, it becomes very individual and fragmented. We can tell ourselves that it's a winning vs. service mentality, but in reality, I think it's more about the shared experience. Win or lose, if kids feel like they are more part of a team in sports than part of a patrol or troop in scouts, they are going to gravitate to the sports team instead. On a sports team, kids see their teammates and coaches two or three times a week and more for school teams. It builds a lot of camaraderie. In scouts, because leaders are somewhat hands off and at least in our case so many of the leaders are only there to support their own kids on their advancement trail, I don't think the kids develop as much of a rapport. In sports, the parent coaches need your kid in order for their own kid to do well because it's a team effort. In scouts, the parent leaders don't need your kid in order for their own kid to advance and do well.

It's great to reach out to this forum, but what you really need to do is talk to people in your council who have experience with canoeing and know your local waterways. A great way to get hooked into your local expert network is to get your scouts to organize some training outings as Tatung42 said. This sounds like a great goal for your Troop and will be a ton of fun. Just be methodical and do your due diligence as a leader.

We pretty much need to provide proof of insurance, or a certificate of insurance, for anything we do, whether it's standing in front of a local supermarket to solicit food donations or use a local camp site or town park for meetings. We have some that are good for the year and others that need to be obtained for each event. While it might seem silly for councils to ask for COIs from other Councils, it's not surprising given the general ratcheting up of liability concerns everywhere. If you have not seen this yet, it is likely to come to a Council near you soon.

OK, I'll speak up for sports here. I don't like when we try and pit disciplines against each other. I think the benefits of scouts vs. sports depends in many ways on the parents and what they want for their kids. Almost all the things we criticize sports parents for I have seen in scout parents, it's just not as overt. Whether it's the win at all costs or make it to Eagle at all costs mentality, some parents are just programmed to push their kids that way. I will say that while sports parents can harass the referee, there is a limit to how far things can be contested. In scouts, however, if a parent doesn't like an advancement ruling they can keep contesting it all the way up to National and they will generally be supported. Both sports and scouts are good for leadership and team work but in different ways. Scouts will figure out how to light a damp fire and help warm up a pal; sports kids will know how to run a drill, hustle when asked, and keep a team mate hydrated. And the scout/athlete/band member will be able to do it all and entertain crowds while doing so.

One year we gave all of our new tigers small stuffed tigers they could clip onto their back packs as a welcome to the pack gift. Someone found them at a dollar store. Anything fun related to outdoors, etc., is probably going to be expensive. Cheap things are pawprint tattoos or stickers. Cheap paper airplane or rocket toys...

People either love, hate or endure popcorn season. We typically have a scout or two who has luck selling it but most of the time it doesn't move. We can no longer even get relatives or neighbors to buy the product. It does not sell in front of grocery stores, and in my area, people resent door to door sales. If they don't know your car, they don't want it driving down their driveway lol.

This points to the problem I see where there is a BSA fantasy about what the CO role is and then there is the unit reality about it. Many COs are almost completely hands off. Ours just signs when asked and gives us space. If they really understood the degree of responsibility that BSA expects from them, they would likely drop their units. Many units understand this, and don't push the envelope. In an organizational sense, I think this is where so many things fall through the cracks. I know this is not the case everywhere, but it is maybe more the norm than the exception. No way would our CO want to get involved in a bullying case.

Buggie, thanks for BSA origin of field connection. Coming from more of a wildlife biology background, means something totally different to me lol.

I agree Hawkwin. That was part of my comment earlier. I believe that, like it or not, this is why people persist in using different nomenclature -- because it makes more sense. I'll also reiterate that I think it's time BSA re-engineered the so called field uniform to make it more functional for weather conditions in the field. I know there are plenty of people who love the uniforms as is but there are also plenty who don't. If it were truly a field uniform, people would be more likely to call it that. In reality, though, I think this is a minor thing to be worried about. When I can't remember what to call some piece of equipment I'll just point and say can you hand me that thing? It works. No one has accused me of being a slacker trying to derail kids off the path of excellence just because I've used the wrong word.

Maybe the BSA could solve this by re engineering a field uniform that is actually a field uniform. The current uniform is more like a military dress or ceremonial uniform. It's completely impractical for the field. The shirts are not warm in winter or weather wicking in summer. The patches, other than those that allow leaders to recognize who is who (meaning, I can see from a distance that that scout is in my unit 000), serve no purpose. The shoulder tabs get speared by branches. The neckerchief is actually a safety hazard in certain circumstances. The thin pant fabrics offer no warmth or little real protection while hiking. The heavier duty fabric is chafing to the point where scouts often have to wear bike shorts under them. And all this impractical nonfunctional gear is still expensive.

Our cub scouts attend day camp only, so no need for parents to attend unless they want to volunteer and get a discount. Our traditional history is that attendance is low among Lion/Tigers because many parents think the long bus ride/full day is too much for them. Picks up for wolf and bear. By Webelos and AOL rank, starts to drop off because the older kids are starting to be ready for more adventure.

One reason why scouts may be eager to sign up for merit badge days or programmed opportunities is that at least in our area it can be hard to find merit badge counselors, especially for certain badges.

I think the interesting thing here is that you can see how stressful even frivolous lawsuits can be for those who get dragged into the liability cattle call -- the CO, the CM, the ACM, the DLs and even young scouts who had to be deposed. The people who were named in this lawsuit had to live with the stress for years. It's another reminder to make sure you know GTSS and reasonably follow it. Not all judges are as sensible as this one. You also can't rely on parents having common sense when it comes to supervising their own kids on family activities.

This is a great post. The reason why we need more people exposed to the out of doors is votes. I think immigrant camping comfort is widely varied. In many parts of the world, camping is not recreational but a survival mechanism often linked to stressful or strife torn events. I think scouts can be a great way to assimilate some of these families into American style camping for fun and get them interested in our commitment to the outdoors and unspoiled places. We all wish for more solitude but the reality is there are fewer people here who are interested in the outdoor lifestyle or in preserving anything. One of the main reasons I am committed to scouts is because I support anything that gets kids out of doors and appreciating the outdoor lifestyle.

I agree about the mixed emotions. You want every scout to maximize their potential but the prime directive for leaders and people like this RSO is to keep everyone safe. I think it's also fair to allow people to say when they are not comfortable. Most of us do not have years of training or advanced degrees in dealing with some of these very complex and challenging behavioral and developmental issues. Parents of scouts with issues are often not a reliable or objective source of information about a child's real capabilities, because they are often so focused on trying to maximize mainstream opportunities for their child. That could also be part of what the RSO was referring to "in his experience."

One of my issues with scouts is that there really is no clearly defined leadership mentoring pathway. Our mantra is that it is a scout led troop, but unless scouts have had some kind of exposure to leadership training or experience with it, it can be unnecessarily difficult for some of them who do not have those natural skills yet. We seem to expect them to learn by doing, and we accept the idea that a natural state of affairs for many troops is organized chaos when they flounder. There's something to be said for trial by fire, but I also think there is a whole curriculum missing for the younger kids on how to step into leadership roles and learn how to manage projects and peers. Older scouts could use training on how to manage younger scouts as well. IMHO.

If you have a diabetic kid in your troop, I would hope the leaders would already know that because they would have medical records on hand. You can sometimes have spontaneous cases suddenly present -- and cold weather can sometimes be a trigger that raises developing or latent cases to a level of diagnosis -- but a fruity smell on a kid is more likely the result of something fruity he's gotten into lol.

If it's in bear country, it could be. Where is the scout getting the fruity substance from? Even it's smuggled starbursts and not a vaping device, it's still not safe to have in a tent. Ditto those water flavorings they like to flavor their water with. We tell them not to bring hygiene products that smell like food, even a chap stick, because of bears. It's very hard to know where to draw the line between safety and privacy but when you're responsible for a passel of kids out in the woods somewhere, I tend to side with leaders who take the proactive approach. Just this week someone posted about two bear incidents at scout camp outs. I don't think leaders who are concerned are over reacting.

A training module for leaders specifically on outdoor animal hazards, like weather hazards, would be an excellent resource. The information in the current material is thin and fewer people today seem to have much background experience to draw upon from growing up in the out of doors.

There is no policy, that's the point of this whole interesting discussion. You can say the SM was enforcing 'his' policy, or you can say he was trying to do his best in the absence of any policy. Also, the issue with the original poster seems to be that scouts weren't present. There was no mention that another adult was not present while the search was conducted, which, if not, I agree is essential to protect both the scout and the person(s) doing the search. However, without a BSA policy, no matter what he does (or any of us would do) in a difficult situation could be construed as wrong.

I'm surprised at the number of posters who are shocked at the idea of a worried SM searching backpacks. Obviously experiences vary in different parts of the country, but if bag searching isn't yet common for overnight youth activities near you, it probably will be. It would be good for BSA to develop a policy for when and how scout belongings should be searched. Preemptive searching, even if cursory and tied to presentation, makes more sense to me as a deterrent but at the very least BSA ought to give guidance on how a SM or any leader should handle it if they have reason to be concerned. It seems clear from this very interesting discussion that there doesn't appear to be any kind of policy. Apart from worries about contraband substances and weapons, smuggled food in bear territory is a real concern. Someone just posted elsewhere on this site about a bear that had to be euthanized after eating contraband food. Say all you want about scout privacy, that scout could have gotten himself or someone else mauled, and the bear died.

A 'scout is trustworthy' will not be an adequate legal defense when a scout arrives at a camp site with an inappropriate item and something unfortunate happens because a leader didn't check the bags. We're involved in a youth organization and as adults it's our job to keep them safe. No other youth organization would allow kids on an outing without checking bags. On school, church and sports outings I've been involved with, it's been done by adults as part of the routine while loading buses and cars and no kids are present.

Why would a scout need to be present? More important that two adults are present so that nothing can be "planted" on a kid. Frankly, it's only scouts where kids' luggage, backpacks, etc., is not routinely subject to adult search. BSA needs to get with the times. Class trips, sports team travel, band trips, it all gets searched no bones, no big deal about it. I applaud that scoutmaster.

I think this is another case where BSA is 10 or 15 years behind the times. There should be no expectation of privacy on a scout outing. It's not a matter of trust, it's simply the current reality. There should be no discussion here. Scoutmaster, camp personnel, other designated leaders should have ability to search backpacks at any time if they have just cause. Whether it's cell phones, medications that could make someone sick if not administered properly, or contraband snacks in bear territory, the SM and the camp and troop leaders shoulder the responsibility of keeping everyone safe.

I would suggest contacting your council to get coverage details from the horse's mouth. I have not always found a great deal of clarity about who is covered and when even at the council level, but at least it is a place to start. Whatever the pack or troop thinks is likely to be wrong.