yknot

We've sometimes worked with folks from our local chapter of Trout Unlimited: https://www.tu.org/conservation/outreach-education/headwaters-youth-program/explore-fishing/boy-scouts-fly-fishing-merit-badge/

This is a marketing message BSA is missing. Getting America's Kids Outdoors would be a great positive message to counteract all the negativity. Doing more to save local Council camps that are closing. Protect parks. Developing partnerships with conservation groups that are working to protect some of the species that are linked to our ranks, like wolves and tigers and bears. There is very little real or functional connection in BSA to conservation, wildlife, parks, etc. Our purpose is so muddled and we miss opportunities right and left to cast ourselves in a better light

Yup, that's some of the logic that the UC kept saying. I am not saying that big or small dens are good or bad. I am saying make what you have work with the kids and the parents you have and ignore the people that say, well, we always do it this way so you should too. And I disagree with your point. I never used parents to split groups apart. They were simply there for talent.

I like big dens. Our unit commissioner was a pain in my neck, constantly telling me to break my dens up into two smaller dens. I listened to what he had to say and understood his concerns, but for whatever reason, for both my sons, large dens worked extremely well. If a teacher can handle a class of 22 or more, there's no reason why a den of 12 or 14 won't work, especially if you have great ADLs and parents, which I was lucky enough to have. Frankly, a lot of the requirements wouldn't have been as much fun with a smaller group. Having larger groups meant that, with boys of very diverse inter

I think 4-H is an example of a youth organization that has done a good job of retooling and managing itself well to meet changing youth and family needs. 4-H also has about 6 million kids with a very similar leader/youth structure to BSA and yet very few reported cases of child abuse. There are problems in every organization -- 4-H isn't perfect either -- but BSA could probably learn something from how they operate.

You've got to be careful with those comparisons because generally the lower scout fee is based on several adults from the unit attending for the duration to provide supervision. YMCA, sports camps, STEM camps -- the kids go, parents don't, and counselors are provided. Having to take a day or so off work to do your shift at a scout camp can be a major hit whether you're self employed or burning vacation days. I think it works out kind of the same in our area although I know other places are different.

First, I really don't care about the social stuff and I don't judge anyone because labels are the worst way to judge whether or not someone is a decent person and trustworthy around youth. I wish to dissociate from the "real men" comment. Second, I think the core of what I want from National is that it abide by the Scout Law. I think if it had used that as a litmus test for every decision made, many of these disconnects between the leadership, councils, and units, would go away. National right now is almost unrecognizable as a scouting organization in its operations and, in my humble

I know there are many well meaning people working at the National level. However, I would wager that a lot of rational people would say that somehow, the ship has lost its rudder. Frankly, I think it's time for local units to work toward a down-up reorganization, because our parent organization is clearly not meeting our needs. Successful organizations do not operate this way. You are attempting to normalize something that is largely dysfunctional and unresponsive. The idea of National patting us on the head and saying, "Go, shepherd, go tend your sheep and don't worry about all this," is not

They are not common but my point is that they are not unanticipated. BSA spent money lobbying to prevent changes to state laws that would open up the statute of limitations, so they were obviously well aware this could happen.

Well, I've got as many surgical supply stores within driving distance as Walmarts, so perhaps so. Another type is hemostat clamps. All these things have small teeth and they click into a self lock. You can get them on Amazon if you are not close to civilization. I don't just use them for ticks, I use them for a lot of stuff.

Most of our competition -- other youth organizations -- generally do not have these kinds of issues. There is usually a highly functional public interface, things are usually very organized, and the organizational messages and goals are coordinated from the top, wherever it is, down to the local level. I don't have any issue with BSA reexamining fees. It's understood that we have a financial crisis. I do have an issue with the timing and the total lack of contingency planning. Something has really gone off the rails and without some degree of honesty beyond the spin, I'm not sure what's next.

That method is generally not effective. Use tweezers. Personally, I find surgical bulldog clamps the best. You can get them in a surgical supply store and toss them in your kit. I have about 4.

Ridiculous. Another glaring disconnect is that the statement from National says they are setting up a donor funded BSA registration assistance fund. Nothing has been issued to date on a) whether the fund will in fact exist, b) if it does, how it will be accessed and what kind of process will be required, and c) since nothing BSA does at a process level is speedy, how this process can be accommodated within the current rechartering deadline. I don't fault National for struggling some with challenges. I fault them for being so utterly unprepared despite the fact that lawsuits, liability insuranc

What??? If you've got a scout involved, all BSA policies apply.

I'm just wondering if the problem is that they can no longer get liability insurance. I know they were fighting with their insurers who were balking. Bankrupt or not, if you don't have insurance, I don't think you can operate. That could leave all of us nowhere. Anyone know more about insurance than I do and have a learned opinion?

I agree 'scholarships' don't always work well. For anyone who really wants to stay but will find a fee increase a financial hardship, I wonder if you could find a way to reach out to scouting alumni in your area and ask for sponsorships? Or instead of a unit asking for dollars to be donated to an anonymous scout fund, maybe you could ask for sponsorship of individual scout registrations? A unit could ask to have a tree put up in town hall or home depot or the feed store or someplace that has supported scouts with Please Sign Me Up! cards for Scout J, Scout R, Scout B...

The elephant in the room is that the organizational structure of National/Council/ Units isn't working. National seems oblivious to this and isn't doing anything to address it. That's my biggest concern out of this whole mess. The organization will only continue to be dysfunctional no matter what we do or how much money we charge until that is addressed. It makes me think that the only way to refocus the organization -- and the best thing to do for the future of scouting -- is to stop subsidizing it until they are forced to self examine.

I know. The 'scouting is a great value' statement always has my eyes rolling. While scouting isn't more costly than other organizations or activities, it's not cheaper and there are lot of hidden costs in it in terms of not only material and activities but also time and energy. Don't even get me started about FOS or about volunteers who have to "pay" to volunteer.

qwazse, I was attempting to answer that question. The answer is that they probably read it, but they are only looking to extract the data that was the purpose of their issuing the survey in the first place, since it's skewed to give them some data they are looking for. Does that make more sense?

Several of the BSA surveys I've responded to over the years have used design mechanisms that can skew answers. Many surveys do this and it's why you have to be skeptical of survey results. When BSA issues a survey, they are generally looking for data that will support some marketing message they will eventually spin out.

Why is anyone making a deal over this? Just do more one night camp outs if you feel your wings are clipped. Why do people have such a hard time understanding that scouting is not the same as what you do personally. You are part of an organization that has liability issues to consider and is in the public eye. What you do personally you cannot do while camping with scouts.

Have you been out on a camp out lately with any Millennials? They are the hazards, lol. Insisting on relying on phone apps for weather calls while never looking up at what is brewing over their heads... I have literally had someone looking at their phone tell me that we could carry on no problem while purple clouds and cloud to cloud lightning was over their shoulder.

This is pervasive. Just another reason why boy led shouldn't mean adults hands off. I'm always floored by how clueless adult leaders can be. Perhaps it's because I was exposed to a lot of extreme stuff as a kid and could often see how easy it was to game or out flank the system should you so choose. I never did but I had to navigate around a lot of very unpleasant, scary, and stressful stuff.

It seems like many units have dropped out of the popcorn fundraiser because it not only has gotten to be such a hard sell but also seems to border on encouraging hucksterism. We've dropped out and do other things and usually give a donation to council although not 10%. If enough units drop out, maybe BSA will investigate adding some other fundraising partners.

We can't sell much popcorn here, so we do our own fundraisers and have made a donation to council in lieu of popcorn.