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That "one lodge" decision was pretty fresh scuttlebutt. So, it's likely the rest is being thought through. But, keep in mind there is nothing in O/A's policy that explicitly excludes girls. The requirements were quite intentionally phrased to not mention sex, then national advisors hid behind BSA's policy for troops.

Wendy Shaw, National's Membership Growth Group Director gave the keynote speech and taught a seminar at our UoS this weekend. The keynote was the usual "rah-rah" stuff: Positive media attention (which means little in region where for forty years, press releases usually came in advance of pink slips), Girls dens were growing, some additional boys joined because their sisters were having fun in a den, some dads participated more since the kids shared the activity, ... the usual rose-colored anecdotes. The seminar was more interesting as it focused on the challenges facing troop program rollout on Feb 1. For your edification, I'm sharing my notes, some of which we've hashed out already, but might help us understand what the pros are and are not getting ... Advancement challenges Rogue troops (my term, not hers): how to tell a girl "no" when someone told her "yes"? Eagle scout rank being rushed by 16 year-olds. How to keep it "about the journey, not the destination?" This got a lot of scouters in the room talking, because the girls they knew weren't giving two hoots about advancement. Meanwhile, national is getting inquiries from such girls. The current thinking is that local advancement folks need to have this that conversation. I think the hope is that the best policies may trickle up from them. As far as the requirements themselves are concerned, internally the sentiment is unanimous to make no changes. Externally (i.e. In the media) people have no clue about advancement, so they will not understand why a scout may not be approved for rank. As far as scrutiny by girls: There is a lot of asking about eligibility for World Scout Jamboree, with blog posts by girls saying they can't wait to come. Packs are concerned, each might have one or two AoLs but in sparse districts, a CO might not get the numbers to field a troop. (At this point, I leaned on our council membership pro about a plan to do "girl talks" in those districts' middle schools.) Linked-Troop Besides the common CO, they will share the troop #, and may share COR, MCs, ASMs, but not SMs. I asked, and yes the linked troop will pay a separate rechartering fee. Why this arrangement? The ostensible concern is over youth leadership opportunities. They were very concerned that boys will leave a fully co-Ed unit. However, national won't police troops as to their compliance with "separate but equal" meetings and activities. That will be up to council (I guess through that ubiquitous commissioner corps?). Depth Where a female youth is present, one registered female adult will be required at all activities and meetings of packs, troops, and crews. I interjected, "You do realize that you just killed Venturing?" She didn't disagree. The real problem (not unlike what some of you experienced in the 90s) is that only 2% of trained ASMs/SMs are female. If growth surpasses training, we will be in the same jam as Scouts UK was. Things that aren't changing: The organization remains Boy Scouts of America. The magazine is Boy's Life. Den Chiefs ... actually more venturers have started to fill those positions in the pilot packs. Handbook - girls like the content, The next edition may have more images of girls, but the layout remains the same. O/A will continue to have only one lodge per council. As far as the specific name for troops of female youth, she said they are still taking suggestions. I used "BSA4G" and she was taken aback. I explained, and I think she liked the sound of it. But it clearly shows she's not reading this forum. I'll try to send a link her way. Those are my notes. Hope they help.

Add to your Christmas wish list: mother-of-pearl neckerchief slide!

In terms of clothing alternatives: consider a polar fleece pull-over of thermal underwear. Then maybe a windbreaker for when she goes outside. That strategy comes with its own set of problems ... not the least of them being the need to keep track of more stuff. But, she may tolerate her zipper (never mind the zip-tie jokes), buttons, etc ... if she has an extra layer. P.S. - When I lived with British roommates, I was always impressed with how they put up with the cold.

Don't worry use of the term will fade unless BSA4G does go like gang-busters and makes a profound cultural influence on this second-generation of post-modern nomads. In which case, it would be gratifying to hear someone refer to a public figure with "she's such a boy scout."

Well there is a site that supposedly has the graphics https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2010/11/11/bsa-logos/ but, when I try to click through to the source directory for program logos, I get hour glassed. I think the scoutshop does have decals of the ranks.

I think councils started to set limits around the 50s, but it took national took a while to set the agist policy in stone. From https://www.sageventure.com/history/changes/: The comprehensive list had been on the website, AdultEagleScouts.com, but that site is gone.

Hipster parents may want to consider https://fieldnotesbrand.com/. I used one of these (tan, with graph paper) last year, and found it to be quite convenient. Actually, there used to be a bookbinding merit badge (https://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Bookbinding), which in retrospect, would have been ideal for a scout to take before starting most any other merit badge. In fact, maybe Bookbinding MB would still be in circulation if it had a recursive requirement 4: "Use the notebook you made for requirement 2 to earn one other MB".

@silent-warrior, ditto the welcome. Form any nomination scheme you like (including the one that many of us experienced in the 70s), and I can show you examples of disappointments. The question is, are there more disappointments than successes? Take my family for example. By the books, both I and my sons are what you would call sash-n-dash. Our lodge saw nothing of us after the ordeals. On another, very few would doubt our commitments to scouting, supporting camps, being of service to scouting activities, respect for native tribes, and introducing people who've never gone camping or hiking before to extended time in the out-of-doors. Much of which was inspired by our ordeal membership. We launched a venturing crew, and it caught a lot of kids that Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts "missed". Doing so consumed tremendous time and energy. We were left with choices: devote time to O/A or devote time to teaching girls and boys who never experienced troop life its principles. The Arrowmen in our lodge did not begrudge our choosing the former, so that is where we put our time. All that to say, I don't ask O/A to provide me with a better elections system, because it's very difficult to really prove. They lack any credible metric to test the success/failure of one vs. the other. Finally, to your point regarding what is said to scouts who weren't elected: Condescension, by definition, occurs when one who is elevated speaks to one who is not. So yes, the phrase is condescending. But it is not necessarily inaccurate. Nor is all condescension immoral or harmful. How many boys quit because of this particular act of condescension? Of the boys in our troop who have heard those words (about 5 or six, I think, over quite some years), all of them stayed in the troop to run again and eventually get elected. The scout who lost multiple times became one of the more active in his lodge. Your mileage may vary.

We try to go down the list with the scout and help find a counselor in the neighborhood ... preferably someone he or I know. When I was a scout, I didn't have my own counselor list. I had to go to the scout house and look up counselors on the bulletin board. Then I would write down the number of one in my notebook. i try to make sure scouts have the same experience.

I'm sorry for any pain inflicted. I saw the sculpture, typed the pun, considered canceling. and thought, too marbleous to not submit. Now where were we? Oh yes ... citizens of the world ... outdoors and national boundaries ... where no man has gone before ...

Two days thinking and I still can't make up my mind! Was it 1st Aid? Rowing? Lifesaving? Archery? Envi. sci? Pioneering? Small Boat Sailing? Communications? Wilderness? .... Each came with a great story and friends and sometimes cuts and bruises and something new. I keep going around and around and can't pick a fav!

Well, this thread's gone bust.

@numbersnerd, I'm not particularly concerned about a wide base ... just those who want to keep accountability in the hands of your best-trained boys, and use adults as back-up. Thus, although I like using on-line forms for crew sign-ups because my venturers were learning how to operate a club, I don't like it (or other online form tools) for troop sign-ups because it seems to take control from the scouts. Right now, we are experiencing a bit of a renaissance because we have our web-master copy info from sign-up sheets and sync it with the online sign-up. I don't suspect the next webmaster will be as meticulous. These positions come in waves. Obviously, the killer app would "read" the image of the photographed page and file each sign-off in an appropriate category. But, who needs that much detail at their fingertips, really?

It often feels like a class is needed to help boys disentangle the verbiage in each badge. You're not wrong about that. How, in our litigious society, do we convince professionals (who are painfully aware of the nature of our litigious society) to write plainly? That is a question worth half the cost of each pamphlet!

@sst3rd, excellent mentoring! File the new dad's opinions under "you can lead a horse to water ..." The only chance you have of convincing him is if you or the SM know of a young adult who dropped out of scouting because of the "parent trap," and he is willing to have a sit-down with you, the SM and the dad. Have you considered becoming this troops UC? Or, is somebody who you trust already in the position?

@'Lope, welcome to the forum. Do look up the guide on the O/A's website. My understanding: Even if other requirements are met the SM may decide if a scout should or should not be a candidate for election. (Clearly, the SM did decide that this boy was worthy to be on the ballot.) But, the SM may not override the vote of the scouts. So, yes, this is a learning tool. I've found that this usually means figuring out what younger scouts don't like about your behavior. Deciding if you want to change that behavior. And changing accordingly.

If youth in both groups all share a common vision regarding activities, service projects, and awards to pursue, then merge. If both groups are really venturing, they will have envisioned different activities, service projects, and awards to pursue. Regarding a big recruiting drive. Do you have something that your youth believe they need but can't get elsewhere? Then push with all you've got. If not, fold. It really stunk that I had something that about 4 youth kinda sorta needed and one youth really needed (to the point that he was willing to sign on as crew president), but when I said, "Time to push." They all backed away. I took it as a sign to drop that charter.

You guys are starting to make me feel really nervous about the course I'm teaching at UoS Saturday. If someone walks out, I loose 1/4 of the class.

@Eagle1993, I've been hearing this UK model touted for decades. It's not very intuitive in my community since the Jr./Sr. High school kids share the same building and, where possible, participate in activities and classes together. I must again, without any prejudice, remind us that we aren't British.

@cyphertext, just to be clear on your position, should an SM have the right to recommend a suitable counselor for his/her scout?

Sadly, it all goes to background checks and defense funds. On the plus side, fewer helicopters ... well, at least ones who wont pay for the "refueling" costs.

If my years teaching Sunday School are any indication, you'll eventually come across the girls who are too scatter-brained to advance much in less than six months At least in my crew, it was the Girl Scouts who had attention to detail nailed down. The girls who weren't scouts needed help, but they were more comfortable just winging it - which was the more essential skil for backpacking. Only one venturer asked me about menses and wilderness. So, I asked a few guides, and they were pretty confident that it was a non-issue.

I don't consider that a program change. It's asking the pack to deliver on the promise of scouting to any girl who starts as an early adopter. It allows them the opportunity to make rank if they want to. I remember my Sons' DLs doing something of the sort for any cub scout who joined late in the year. It was an individual challenge that some boys took on, while others were perfectly content doing whatever the den was doing and start advancement in earnest after their buddies moved up. What I don't like is what @Eagle1993 pointed out. It puts pencil-whipping over fun for an entire den. Welcome to the "boots" of boots-on-ground scouters.

The pack is, but clearly the girls aren't.