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Don't worry use of the term will fade unless BSA4G does go like gang-busters and makes a profound cultural influence on this second-generation of post-modern nomads. In which case, it would be gratifying to hear someone refer to a public figure with "she's such a boy scout."

Well there is a site that supposedly has the graphics https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2010/11/11/bsa-logos/ but, when I try to click through to the source directory for program logos, I get hour glassed. I think the scoutshop does have decals of the ranks.

I think councils started to set limits around the 50s, but it took national took a while to set the agist policy in stone. From https://www.sageventure.com/history/changes/: The comprehensive list had been on the website, AdultEagleScouts.com, but that site is gone.

Hipster parents may want to consider https://fieldnotesbrand.com/. I used one of these (tan, with graph paper) last year, and found it to be quite convenient. Actually, there used to be a bookbinding merit badge (https://meritbadge.org/wiki/index.php/Bookbinding), which in retrospect, would have been ideal for a scout to take before starting most any other merit badge. In fact, maybe Bookbinding MB would still be in circulation if it had a recursive requirement 4: "Use the notebook you made for requirement 2 to earn one other MB".

@silent-warrior, ditto the welcome. Form any nomination scheme you like (including the one that many of us experienced in the 70s), and I can show you examples of disappointments. The question is, are there more disappointments than successes? Take my family for example. By the books, both I and my sons are what you would call sash-n-dash. Our lodge saw nothing of us after the ordeals. On another, very few would doubt our commitments to scouting, supporting camps, being of service to scouting activities, respect for native tribes, and introducing people who've never gone camping or hiking before to extended time in the out-of-doors. Much of which was inspired by our ordeal membership. We launched a venturing crew, and it caught a lot of kids that Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts "missed". Doing so consumed tremendous time and energy. We were left with choices: devote time to O/A or devote time to teaching girls and boys who never experienced troop life its principles. The Arrowmen in our lodge did not begrudge our choosing the former, so that is where we put our time. All that to say, I don't ask O/A to provide me with a better elections system, because it's very difficult to really prove. They lack any credible metric to test the success/failure of one vs. the other. Finally, to your point regarding what is said to scouts who weren't elected: Condescension, by definition, occurs when one who is elevated speaks to one who is not. So yes, the phrase is condescending. But it is not necessarily inaccurate. Nor is all condescension immoral or harmful. How many boys quit because of this particular act of condescension? Of the boys in our troop who have heard those words (about 5 or six, I think, over quite some years), all of them stayed in the troop to run again and eventually get elected. The scout who lost multiple times became one of the more active in his lodge. Your mileage may vary.

We try to go down the list with the scout and help find a counselor in the neighborhood ... preferably someone he or I know. When I was a scout, I didn't have my own counselor list. I had to go to the scout house and look up counselors on the bulletin board. Then I would write down the number of one in my notebook. i try to make sure scouts have the same experience.

I'm sorry for any pain inflicted. I saw the sculpture, typed the pun, considered canceling. and thought, too marbleous to not submit. Now where were we? Oh yes ... citizens of the world ... outdoors and national boundaries ... where no man has gone before ...

Two days thinking and I still can't make up my mind! Was it 1st Aid? Rowing? Lifesaving? Archery? Envi. sci? Pioneering? Small Boat Sailing? Communications? Wilderness? .... Each came with a great story and friends and sometimes cuts and bruises and something new. I keep going around and around and can't pick a fav!

Well, this thread's gone bust.

@numbersnerd, I'm not particularly concerned about a wide base ... just those who want to keep accountability in the hands of your best-trained boys, and use adults as back-up. Thus, although I like using on-line forms for crew sign-ups because my venturers were learning how to operate a club, I don't like it (or other online form tools) for troop sign-ups because it seems to take control from the scouts. Right now, we are experiencing a bit of a renaissance because we have our web-master copy info from sign-up sheets and sync it with the online sign-up. I don't suspect the next webmaster will be as meticulous. These positions come in waves. Obviously, the killer app would "read" the image of the photographed page and file each sign-off in an appropriate category. But, who needs that much detail at their fingertips, really?

It often feels like a class is needed to help boys disentangle the verbiage in each badge. You're not wrong about that. How, in our litigious society, do we convince professionals (who are painfully aware of the nature of our litigious society) to write plainly? That is a question worth half the cost of each pamphlet!

@sst3rd, excellent mentoring! File the new dad's opinions under "you can lead a horse to water ..." The only chance you have of convincing him is if you or the SM know of a young adult who dropped out of scouting because of the "parent trap," and he is willing to have a sit-down with you, the SM and the dad. Have you considered becoming this troops UC? Or, is somebody who you trust already in the position?

@'Lope, welcome to the forum. Do look up the guide on the O/A's website. My understanding: Even if other requirements are met the SM may decide if a scout should or should not be a candidate for election. (Clearly, the SM did decide that this boy was worthy to be on the ballot.) But, the SM may not override the vote of the scouts. So, yes, this is a learning tool. I've found that this usually means figuring out what younger scouts don't like about your behavior. Deciding if you want to change that behavior. And changing accordingly.

If youth in both groups all share a common vision regarding activities, service projects, and awards to pursue, then merge. If both groups are really venturing, they will have envisioned different activities, service projects, and awards to pursue. Regarding a big recruiting drive. Do you have something that your youth believe they need but can't get elsewhere? Then push with all you've got. If not, fold. It really stunk that I had something that about 4 youth kinda sorta needed and one youth really needed (to the point that he was willing to sign on as crew president), but when I said, "Time to push." They all backed away. I took it as a sign to drop that charter.

You guys are starting to make me feel really nervous about the course I'm teaching at UoS Saturday. If someone walks out, I loose 1/4 of the class.

@Eagle1993, I've been hearing this UK model touted for decades. It's not very intuitive in my community since the Jr./Sr. High school kids share the same building and, where possible, participate in activities and classes together. I must again, without any prejudice, remind us that we aren't British.

@cyphertext, just to be clear on your position, should an SM have the right to recommend a suitable counselor for his/her scout?

Sadly, it all goes to background checks and defense funds. On the plus side, fewer helicopters ... well, at least ones who wont pay for the "refueling" costs.

If my years teaching Sunday School are any indication, you'll eventually come across the girls who are too scatter-brained to advance much in less than six months At least in my crew, it was the Girl Scouts who had attention to detail nailed down. The girls who weren't scouts needed help, but they were more comfortable just winging it - which was the more essential skil for backpacking. Only one venturer asked me about menses and wilderness. So, I asked a few guides, and they were pretty confident that it was a non-issue.

I don't consider that a program change. It's asking the pack to deliver on the promise of scouting to any girl who starts as an early adopter. It allows them the opportunity to make rank if they want to. I remember my Sons' DLs doing something of the sort for any cub scout who joined late in the year. It was an individual challenge that some boys took on, while others were perfectly content doing whatever the den was doing and start advancement in earnest after their buddies moved up. What I don't like is what @Eagle1993 pointed out. It puts pencil-whipping over fun for an entire den. Welcome to the "boots" of boots-on-ground scouters.

The pack is, but clearly the girls aren't.

@MattR, you just explained why I could never remember BSA's mission statement. I no longer feel inadequate! I like bringing up youth to be responsible for the well-being of our nation's families, communities, and resources. On that note, car-camping could teach a load of responsibility if scouts worked with their driver check the lights, fuel, oil, breaks, and tire treads and pressure, they got out and cleaned windows and mirrors at refueling stops, pick up litter and shake out the mats, on freezing nights, raise the wipers before bed checks, inspected each car's roadside emergency kit and first aid kit.

I was just thinking about how the Scout Book app is a ways from keeping up with patrol-method requirements tracking. (E.g. PL's can't sign-off on requirements. Although they claim they may add the feature at some point.) Consider the following low-brow high-tech procedure: Each scout (or his parent) creates an account on the cloud (e.g. Google Drive) ... maybe with a folder labeled 'Rank Advancement '. The scout gives 'read' rights to the folder to his SM, advancement chair, and parents. After some requirements get signed off in his hand book, scout saves a photo of that page to his drive. The photo might be named 'Second Class', same as any previous photos for the same rank. That way, as he posts updates, the old ones are archived. He could also save photos of his participation diary, miles hiked, etc ... He could have a photo of his completed blue cards as well. In advance of his conference, the SM could bring up the scouts photo for that rank. He could then cross-check the book, if necessary. End of conference, he snaps a picture of the page and shares it with the advancement chair. BoR transpires. Advancement is filed by the current means. If the PL wants to plan activities, he can go through boys' pages and see if a few need something in common. Or he can look through everyone's picture of MBs and see if someone did something cool. If not, he could just ask at a meeting, but where's the fun in that? If the BSHB is lost, the leaders can rebuild from the scouts' most recent photos. Advancement track: done. Personal responsibility: taught. Teamwork: shared. Money otherwise spent on software: dutch oven pizza party!

Older scouts need fellowship. That means games, laughter, service, and food. Instead of time instructing scouts -- only have of whom will stay on task during a meeting -- give them half hour opportunities: A venturing patrol for the next big activity. (Training might be them hiking 14 miles to the younger scouts' 3 in the same day. I.e., avoid the pitfalls that @blw2 described of wrecking fellowship.) An Eagle scouts advising Life scouts huddle. Set up games for younger scouts. Special service projects for your CO. Skits and Song (Yes older boys can sing if they try) improv. Cook up a treat in the kitchen that they may share with younger scouts who can demonstrate a skill. Or, a cracker barrel for your PLC.

In one sense there's no structure that needs to be maintained. Somewhere, some boys and girls are going to pick up a manual or see a few videos that inspire them to hike out and spend the night under stars or canvas. Either those of us who've done this sort of thing before will support them, or we wont. Either BSA will up us, or get in the way.