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What does the crew president have to say about this? Meeting indoors in the winter just because its winter would be a show-stopper for my youth. Have you suggested the crew attend an Council/Area VOA event? A lot of these have training in the chaperon's coffee lounge, and it's a lot better way to get to know other adults trying to do the same thing. Anyway, if the president is not meeting WITH the committee or addressing the CO at some point in the year, in my opinion, you don't have a crew. Might as well let the charter lapse.

There are actually a lot of specialty recognitions for youth. Venturing awards are just the tip of the iceburg. But, it would be nice to see a Boys Life article or two on the subject. Maybe interview a recent silver awardee or a quatermaster.

Real men do curse, among other things. But they shouldn't. So don't try to drum up a speach. It's really not so complicated: If a youth says it, tell him "Don't cuss." If an adult says it ask "Please don't cuss." If you say it, apologize. (Even if those who hear it are adults who think nothing of it themselves.) Some youth have dared to become my facebook friends. It's a real pain, but they get a message from me when an obsenity appears in their status. So far none of them have unfriended me because of it.

Here's the smoke and mirrors: "Den Chief" isn't an office within a venturing crew. But just because it's not an office in your primary unit doesn't mean it can't count as a POR toward your Eagle. For example, three of our Eagles from our troop served their POR as officers in a venturing crew. The rub: since "Den Chief" is a troop or varsity scout position, the WAY IT's WRITTEN, you would have to be multiple registered with a troop or team to hold it. Now you and I and anyone else can split hairs over this, but what you *need to do* if this is more than just a hypothetical question is talk to your district/council advancement chair *now* and iron out what is or isn't acceptable. Then, talk to your council staff and make sure they aggree. If there is the **slightest hint** of disagreement, have them call National. (What else is that increase in $3 for?) Trust me, it is not very comfortable when you are turning in an Eagle application for a 17.9 year-old and council staff is picking apart what your DAC told you four years earlier.

I should show some of your posts to my girls. It might motivate them to take NYLT just to spite you all! (If they can stick around after I hand them their card, shake thier hand, and say "welcome to the Boy Scouts of America", they might be the right kind of women for your boys to take a leadership course with.) If I recall, YP regs have to do with SLEEPING arrangements, and few of our patrols camp in one big tent. So, putting 4 girls in 1 or 2 tent(s) and 4 boys in 1 or to other(s) (adult leaders, male and female, nearby) is not going to break a patrol method. That said, our program exludes 11-13 y.o. females, which may make the younger boys feel a little awkward. I guess we'll be figuring that one out as we go along. P.S. - I never thought much of JLT when I took it 30 years ago, but think back favorably now. If young women were in the mix, I don't think it would have altered much.

I admire your concern about the long-term viability of your crew. I think the key to success is an advisor with a similar commitment. Sounds you want your crew to be outdoors (like mine) and like a spiffy, nationally supplied, uniform (not like mine). So, you're going to want an advisor with a similar interest (and maybe some kids to feed into the program) and a committee of adults to support you and about 5 other youth in getting it started. Talk to your parents and other scouting adult leaders to see if they know of anyone who might fit the description. Best of luck!

Hey Thunder, I started our crew for about the same reason you did. (Plus my daughter was 12 at the time, did not fit in with girl scouts, and loved the outdoors just like her older brother.) A couple of years with our council's VOA and I learned that every crew does it differently. Ours ran finances separate from the troop because some of the adults at the time (especially the UC) felt that we would be a drain on troop resources. Turned out that the crew has been running budget surpluses and that money could have definitely helped the troop over the years. Other crews were extentions of the troop, like yours. The crew committee became simply a subcommittee of the troop. On the other end of the spectrum, I knew one advisor/scoutmaster who was on pins and needles because his two committee's wouldn't "play nice" together. The youth got along fine, but he had to work around his adults. Ideally, there will be some activities that are "troop only", some that are "crew only", and some that are joint endeavors. If your crew quickly recruits young women (as well as female adult leaders), this will in turn bring in boys who may not have been scouts, and eventually gaurantee that your crew has a different flavor than your troop. By working with a different set of youth, rather than a subset of the troop -- you may see the need for a separate treasury. I think by-laws are inconsequential. Most people will never read them. Frankly, as long as adults feel welcome to contribute either group (regardless of their registration to troop or crew), you'll have a great time.

The new GSS requires helmets for all downhill skiing activities. Can anybody tell me precisely what this means? I would love to get gear for our Troop and Crew, but $ is an issue. The standard ski helmets are sized precisely and cost at least $75. Is this what we are expected to use? Is there any headgear out there that could be dual-use (e.g., skiing and rock climbing)? The slopes are pretty tame here in Western PA are pretty tame, so this rule may be a deal-breaker for some youth.

After our last meeting my crew president said that me and my co-advisor talked to much. So, looks like it's youth led or bust. (I still have to break it to my co-advisor.)

You might want to catch up with your old troop (or transfer to a new one). See if you can advance to Life this year! For certain crew events, I have allowed parents to come with 8th graders as guests. (For example, if we are at a state park, there'd be nothing I could do to keep you and your mom/dad from camping next to us anyway. You'd might as well be part of the company.) But, it's not the same as being a crew member (no chance to be an officer, skills can't count toward advancement, etc ...).

When they feel disoriented, I answer my crew "What does the map say? What does the compass say?" One time, my daughter smarted back, "What does the GPS say?" My reply, "Tracking Satellites..."

The last two posts have me wondering two things: - Is there a discussion group among AHG's somewhere about when they will have the first boy "Stars and Stripes" recipient? - Why don't we give boy scouts a chance to earn venturing silver award without joining a crew? My point is that instead of "overselling" Eagle, maybe we need to give due recogniton to these parallel awards. That way, a young woman with Stars and Stripes or a young woman or man with a Silver Award will garner the same respect that our Eagle Scouts have come to earn over time.

Award Eagle to any boy who meets the requirements to the letter. (That includes providing evidence of noble character outside of the troop. E.g. working to help mum with finances.) For the boys who have excellent attendance, give them a certificate (with coupons to the scout shop if you think it would help). Remember that 25% attendance four 4 years amounts to more meetings than 100% attendance for six months.

Solution to a texting class (assuming you can't jam signals, bar electronic devices, etc.): 1. Oral quizzes, stand up and respond to random question in front of the entire class (remember Room 222?) 2. Oral exams (in front of a board of three teachers). 3. Written exams.

I think my crew has a different take. The majority of young women are from two very good GS troops. (One of their leaders is my co-advisor.) For them, our crew provides the balance of activities that they want (shooting, climbing, backpacking, more campouts than the average girl is asking for ...). They definitely devote a good portion of their time to "girls only" activities. The next younger group (my daughter being one of them) tended not to be GS (for long). They are up for more high adventure experiences, and really want to set themselves apart from the stereotypical "mall girl." One or two of them may be interested in awards and recognition, but for most that's a secondary goal. So, my perception is that although female venturers might be more knowlegeable about and primed for advancement to Eagle, it wouldn't be a significant draw to the venturing program. (Perhaps that's why Venturing calls their awards "recognition" and not "advancement".) The young men are mostly multiples of one troop, and to a man are focused on advancement within the troop. Most of them have been doing that since 11, and are going to maintain that momentum. I do encourage them to choose service projects that can involve both troop and crew members, and only a portion take me up on it. This makes me think that there is some benefit to allowing some space for "boys only" instruction. My only frustration is that "separate but equal" is impossible. So from age 11-13 the boys (and their dads) are gaining the outdoor skills and equipment for high adventure, while the girls (and their moms) are gaining some valuable organizational and management skills.

Not so about the POR, emb021! In the past 10 months, three boys in my crew have been awarded eagles who were primary in the troop and held their POR in the crew. Likewise, boys could get their rank advancement through the crew and have POR in the troop. (My council HQ did raise the issue with the most recent boy, I had them called National, and they made it clear that there is no such "rule of primary membership". Kind of makes sense 'cause it isn't in the book or on the Eagle application.) Mick1141, this makes your life easier because you can explain to your scouts that with multiple membership they may advance in rank where most convenient, and fulfill their POR's where they see the greatest need, not where primary membership is held. This is critical, because if your experience is like mine, it will take a couple of years for venturers who aren't members of the troop to begin to take on leadership roles.

Your one recourse is the boys who have stuck around. You could bring this up at a campfire where your older scouts are present and ask, "Why are you still camping with us when at any time you could have gone elswhere?" (No need to mention the other troop by name.) Their answers will stick with the younger boys better than anything you could say/do. That way, when boys from other troops ask them to transfer, the'll have a reason (besides the $1 fee) to stick with your program. Obviously, if the older boys point out something/someone you have not recognised as a reason for staying, be sure to give recognition where it's due at the next opportunity.

I certainly have had to bite my lip a lot when the boys (and young men and women venturers) were being chaotic yet not creating a safety issue or disrespecting anyone. But, I would reccommend two strategies besides "sit down and shut up." First, go on at least one overnight a year with your troop. If at all possible, bunk with a dad you may know well. (Or, if your wife goes on these outings, I'm sure she'd also appreciate your company.) Spending some time around a campfire with other adults can smooth over a lot of issues. Second, talk to the troop committee chair about what adult leadership positions are unfilled. It may be that they need need something that you can do well. Also, consider becoming a merit badge counselor. Based on your experience as a coach, you might do well helping boys with Personal Fitness. Let's face it. Not everyone was cut out to sit in those meetings. And sometimes, aldults communicate a feeling of unwelcome because they expect you to be all bubbly about something that you don't enjoy or appreciate at the moment. Hopefully they are grown up enough to get over their hang-ups. Finally, I certainly couldn't coach any sport beyond grade school. I tried, did O.K., but quickly reached the limit of my skill. Fortunately parents who could take it to the next level were available for my kids. If you're one of those parents, thanks a ton!

Climberslacker, you sound like an SPL I can relate to! I remember being the only guy in high school wearing a uniform on scout day (decades ago!). I've since lightened up on this method after I realized how much it costs to keep two boys in class A's. Even after accounting for Thrift stores and a troop hand-me-down program, 1 full uniform = 1 wilderness backpacking weekend. So keep up the postitive reinforcement, and don't forget to thank parents for making the sacrifice to keep their kids looking clean and sharp. There's one other thing that I'd suggest. Make sure you're not overlooking what the untidy boys may contribute to your troop. Perhaps they are first to shuck the uniform and dig the latrine or set up the axe yard. Maybe they are the ones who can change a bike chain or check the oil in a car at fuel stops. If a boy knows you appreciate him, he may eventually fall in line with the uniform.

I love those mean troops. It may not help much, but the mom needs to know that her child also grows by "losing" from time to time. OA elections tend to be a sore spot. Given the age distribution of boys who go to camp, if you don't win the younger block, it's over. It causes a lot of soul searching. I remember one boy who talked to me after losing one. He had a laundry list of faults that I could have pointed out, but I had the wits (for once) to just ask "how do you think you can act differently to earn the respect of younger scouts next year?" On his own he listed exactly what I thought he needed to stop doing and what he needed to start doing. I then told him, "Pick one from the STOP list, and one from the START list. Work on just those two." Sure enough, the boy worked on his character and was easily elected the next year. With SPL, there's no gaurantee that you'll ever be elected. But with 4 years to go in his scouting career, this boy will have more chances than others. But, be clear (or better yet, let your committee chair be clear) to his mom that he'll have more chances to lose as well.

Be it on the soccer field or in the back woods we're going to teach citizenship. Here are some of my suggestions to make it successful: 1. Have the boys go over their rights and responsibilities with a lawyer. If you don't have a leader or parent in that profession, invite one to come camping with the troop, and while he's fishing he can give the instruction (a couple of boys at a time so as to not disturb the fish). 2. Soccer units: same thing only have the guest present between games or drills. 3. Get the boys in the habit of packing a small notebook and pen/pencils on every outing. Older boys should have the pamphlet (old one from the libray, forget those new multicolored money-wasting editions) of the one merit badge they will work on while on a trip. 4. There is nothing wrong with sitting on a log and taking notes. (It Served Thoreu and Audobon pretty darn well.) Just don't let it take up more than a few minutes at a time. 5. In every wilderness area that you hike, let the boys know the Act of Congress that was required to protect this land. (Soccer players, learn the back-story of every field they play on.) 6. Always make sure the boys have access to a map of the area you are camping/hiking in. For the older ones, give them a copy of a map with the names blanked out, and have them identify the named features. 7. Challenge the boys to get autographs from any international scout they may ever meet. 8. Ask if an elected official from a nearby community can stop by and visit your campsite. Trust me, THIS TYPE OF LEARNING IS NOT AT ALL WHAT KIDS WILL GET IN SCHOOL. But, this is exactly what it takes for more than 10% of them to know the material that we expect them to by the time they can fill out a ballot.

I guess if National's taking so long to complete their crew uniform, I won't grouse over my crew taking three years to design theirs. (Their only specification was "not any of those shirts in the BSA catalogue".) As far as the boy scouts are concerned: I can't imagine a bunch of people saying "Gee, now that those shoulder-things and numbers are green instead of red, I'll let my boy join a troop!" I have heard folks say "If I have to shell out another dime to by different colored cloth, my boy's staying home." We make it very clear that as long as it was an official uniform at one time, it's welcome in our troop. (Grandpa didn't want his kakis to be mothballed forever.) Vintage patches/epaulets are seriously cool. Also, we hand down shirts until they are WORN OUT. So look for us, the motley troop with red and green epaulets at a summer camp near you for years to come.

I remember as a youth watching a commercial where a guy was ducked into an alley at night to avoid some approaching shadows. He was relieved when he saw it was just a couple of boy scouts. Love to see that again! If the opposition at Goshen holds sway, we might have to convert a parking lot into a Scouting theme park instead of holding Jamboree, so hold on to that thought. Anyway, I think getting adults to put good troops in the spotlight is important. Our troop tries to get the local paper to every eagle project site and court of honor. At some of the larger projects in public parks we hang a banner announcing that this an eagle project of our troop. I went to a graduation at a major college where two of the top ten youth listed their scout rank as a major achievement (one was life, the other eagle). If councils set up a clipping service for these things, I bet they would have fresh material every month to share with prospective donors. A picture of scouts helping little old ladies ford streams in a wilderness recreation area would be pretty cool too!

I agree with xPanel that our forefathers brought us to this land knowing (to one degree or another) that they were setting aside certain standards of morality (e.g., "the King laws are God's", or maybe even earlier "the gods wouldn't want us to cross this land bridge"). So, we are subjected to a little moral relativism in the hope that we won't wind up fighting anyone else's holy war but our own. BUT that does not mean we do not set up a moral ideal for our children! Even the Christians listen to what the rabbi and immam says, and every now and then we try to learn something. Over our country's history, we've learned: Free the slaves. Don't drink. Don't smoke. Burkas are OK but not required (still working on that one). And, out of respect for marriage, DON'T GAWK AT SOMEONE ELSE's SPOUSE!!!! While you're with us as a boy scout, to help you along: we'll ban some of this stuff, don't bring it to camp (in any form). If you do, we'll confiscate it without endagering your safety. If you insist on bringing contraban (be it out of a sense of moral indignation or addiction) we'll show you the door. I'm sure your parents can find you an organization that suits your high-minded philosophy of moral relativism. When you are a venturer, you can hold an ethical contraversy over this stuff. When you are an adult (and hopefully a little less impulsive), we'll let you have a private life. But, please while you're out with our boys, conform. This isn't merely out of respect for our charter organizations (some of whom are pretty insistant about moral ideals), it's because we all have percieved that the odds are stacked against someone who crosses the line becoming a very compassionate and caring adult. Oh, and asking the parent to drive 500 miles? That really depends on the situation (first offense vs. repeat, threat to others etc...). That's why we SM's and Advisors have committee's and district execs.

Let's not confuse "what is normal" with "what is moral". The preponderance of young males may have looked at pornography. (The current statistic is probably less than what's been stated in recent posts. Look up Master's and Johnson if you really care.) But, if I were to ask them if it is right to gawk at images of someone else's spouse in a compromising position, the majority would say "no". (Note: your girlfriend is not your spouse.) If I were to ask most charter organization reps, the overwhelming majority would aggree. So, the moral standard that we uphold (for adults and youth) is to eschew pornography. Are we gonna throw stones at people over it? No! Are we going to require them to not bring it on BSA activities? Yes! If folks insist on bucking this widely accepted interpretation of "morally straight" then they can find another youth organization that doesn't make a big deal about it.