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@RememberSchiff, I don't think "global-shaming" American scouters is appropriate. Nor is it fair. Pakistan, one of the fastest growing associations -- strictly boys -- also wears its crest with pride. Other associations work hard to honor their groups who want their youth to have a unisex camping experience.

That's what I was thinking. (In fact, any BSA4G troop of mine would not be found anywhere near a dining hall. ) The two camps don't even share the same counselors or campfires, let alone the same classes! So, if the demand were there, the camp could field one week where the boys get the dinning hall, and another week where they get patrol cooking. But, like I said, there are a couple of activities that -- to maintain safety standards -- are between the two camps. These usually only attract older scouts.

I guess that depends on the state and the park ranger/game commissioner -- and how many times you've invited scouts to do honor guard and other service projects for state representatives, park board members, etc ... . Life is about relationships. Build the relationships, and many rules become suggestions. Don't ask for "best" sites. Part of scouting is making do in the cheap seats. Get to know who is most flexible with what property, and have that list at the ready for the PLC. Most state trails around here have rules for leave-no-trace campsites that don't even require reservation. They may insist that minors be accompanied by adults, or even that registration be turned in at the trail head, but no advance paperwork is necessary. Boys can pull up all of that fine print, then consult their SM/ASM about what it all means and what they need to do secure from adults to improve their plan. Still, not every PL (or crew president) can pull off a cold call even with a buddy beside him, and follow through getting all of the steps in line so that the adult's time approving is minimal. That's why I said I respect that certain youth aren't gonna pull this off in certain locations at certain times. We need to work to make those the exceptions. I was one of those youth, at one time. But after years of my SM putting us forward, I started getting more invites directly from landowners and managers asking when me and my buddies would be back. More offers than I had time to take up on! Son #1, once an adult, totally freaked out when he realized the bit about LNT campsites on state park trails. It's like he wasn't even paying attention at how little line-up work I actually did the whole time he was VP of our crew. My kids knew they "arrived" as scouts when they could contact the property owners on their own, get their buddies in line, be trusted with the car keys and any gear I lent them, and hit the road. Many times this was done outside of troop or crew to eliminate all of us adult middle men. Scouts will have a pinnacle experience with or without you, BSA.

Would you take them to a reservation where the boys' troops were assigned a camp on one side of a 250 acre lake, and the BSA4G troops were assigned a camp on the other side of the lake? Camps would have different, largely independent, staff (from director on down - same rangers though). Some facilities (Cope, Shotgun) would be on a red line that's about 400 yards wide. Just picking your brain for the sake of certain council camping committees who will try to be proactive about this kind of thing. If such an idea is a non-starter, they hopefully won't waste much time it and hustle back to the drawing board.

@Treflienne, I feel your pain. Last year recruiting girls for my crew was a complete bust. There were some things beyond my control. But mainly, the girls who could have pulled together were in different circles of friends, and within those circles they were the only girl interested in hiking and camping. Your daughter will have to shake quite a few trees to harvest first fruits. This will include figuring out which troop's CO is most enthusiastic about a linked troop, talking to girls older and younger than her who might like the idea, putting up flyers and posters, and talking to strangers. Most of this work will be hers. Even if she can't find four other girls willing to form patrol alpha, that learning experience will be invaluable. She'll still grow up strong and good.

Don't succumb to the "Yes, but's ..." Tell every such service that they must find a way for your designated youth to work with them to reserve sites on certain dates, for him/her to secure confirmation from his responsible leader, and for him to get that confirmation back to the service representative. Otherwise, you'll take your camp fees elsewhere. It's amazing what people will do for a kid once they see cold, hard cash walking out their door to a competitor. The only "yes, but" should be the unit leader's comfort level. True story: a few years ago the ski lodge changed it's rental to some goofy electronic system for signing off on liability. For the life of me, I couldn't figure it out. Fortunately my youth went to the representative, got help, and went around to each adult showing us which parts of the screen to tap in which order.

If I could have a do-over, I would ask that awards would only be acknowledged briefly. (E.g., at a pack meeting, the Denner for the month might report, "Three guys in our den earned bobcat and four made rank. We had fun at the lake. Johnny tipped my canoe. Thank you.") The only ceremony I'd call for is a passing of the neckers for "move up" day. I'm envious of these scouts: https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2018/03/08/pack-cub-scouts-pass-neckerchief-younger-scouts-advancing-rank/

It confused me as a kid as well. In the 70s we didn't make such a fuss about crossing over. The B&G was for songs and skits (one year we had a magician) and happy birthday to scouting. Awards were secondary. If you got rank then, cool. If not, you still had a couple of months. Then regardless, come fall, "poof" you and your buddies were all working on the next rank. But, in retrospect, it would have been really lame if one of us was "held back" because we didn't accomplish everything our book told us to. Think of this kid-friendly way of summing up the methods of cub scouting: Bobcat is the #1 priority. You want all scouts to sign on to those ideals. Fellowship is #2. You want scouts spend once a week with buddies of the same age/grade and a caring DL. Adventure is #3 priority. You want your scouts to have a fun identity. That's a combination of regiment (Den #) and imagination (Tiger, Wolf, Bear, Webelos). Personal growth is #4. You want scouts to experience accomplishment. This is where rank comes in. It symbolizes that while he was identified with a den, a scout achieved what was expected of scouts in that den. So if you want to recognize "moving up" you need to address two sets of boys: For scouts who've accomplished all four tasks, congratulate them on meeting personal growth goals (i.e. earning rank) and encourage them to do the same next year (by doing the cool stuff needed to their next rank ASAP). For scouts who don't achieve what was expected (i.e. did not earn rank), congratulate each one for sharing in his den's identity, fellowship, and ideals and encourage him to earn a new rank worthy of his den in the coming year. Let him know that he gets a fresh start, a new book, with new fun things to do, and if he does his very best, fun (and maybe a patch or two) will be had! Keep it simple. Make it fun.

She should see the look on female venturers' faces when I give them a patch from a council/area activity! Something between "What am I supposed to do with this?" to "I am surrounded by dorks!"

What's unfair is that there was only one Small Boat Sailing MBC, and that the scout's sailing coach was not recruited to be a another one. Regardless, it's hard to imagine that in the age of hand-held recording devices that this would be an issue.

@Cindy121, welcome! There are no rules. I have scouts show up with boxes of knives to sell at a formidable mark-up. I tried to discourage parents from giving their begging sons cash to buy them. But to no avail. I am not a fan of business transactions during troop activities. But, I know that's spitting into the wind. I just make sure that my kids use their own $$s, bargain hard, or do without. What I try to insist on is a full disclosure of revenue vs. expenses. That way boys know what is going into the SPL's pocket when they "buy in" to the game.

If your assertion is true, and labor-differentiation by sex is an inevitable consequence of adolescence, then why does National see the need to legislate it? They could simply say, "Troops may now welcome girls, if they do, we recommend segregated patrols that ensure each scout gets a fair distribution of chores." (FWIW, in my patrol growing up there were some boys who we would never have cook for us -- if we could help it.) Moreover, I don't see how "linked-troops" avoids this. PLs in the traditional troop may like their boys' cooking. PLs of BSA4G just can't stand what their girls pull out of the pot. The one troop declares their patrols as cookers, the other troop offers their patrols to fetch wood and water. Everyone's happy. Thus that linked troop will have effectively differentiated chores by sex. What I found in scouts who group up co-ed in other countries was that they were especially adept at dividing up chores. Boys were as good at cooking as girls. So, they must have taken turns at some point. As far as I can tell, the only reason National is doing this is because they believe this is the only way they can make it palatable to reactionary leaders leaders while giving the revolutionary leaders a place at the table. Or, this is the best way for them to monitor program growth in hopes of pitching it to COs looking for the next big thing.

I don't know why this is sad. A council has a particular scouting culture. It's worked for them. Another council has a different mix, and now can adjust to that demand. Maybe there are scouters there saying, "Sadly, the CO down the road is rolling out BSA4G."

Really? Speculation is just now going on? I don't speculate. It doesn't matter what size font they print FAMILY SCOUTING on the flyer. I choose the most sensible name and stick with it. So it's BSA4G until someone proves otherwise. If they were "Scout Troops", then why does my CO need two of them? The only reason would be because there's two programs. The existing one for boys and a new program for girls who want to do the the things boy scouts do. My crew never needed two advisors. Why? Because it was one program. Our pack never needed two cubmasters for the same reason. By pitching it as the separate program that it is, we share an honest vision of what I think most scouters are willing to provide. No double-speak.

Not sure how this is a federal lawsuit? That said, 90K for a state-wide contract sounds like chump change. Not sure why the council wouldn't pay up, unless the quality of the service was so bad they had to use a different provider to meet the needs of its campers. This might come down to a determination of who breached first.

So the first scentence ("No."), doesn't mean "No"? Not a very progressive step in welcoming young women.

I wouldn't train particularly for any badge. But, I would check over the years if felt I gained enough to counsel an MB as I accumulate hobbies.

No. But the further in that we hike the fewer we get! Is that disruptive of the patrol method? Yes. Does it help adult association? Yes. It certainly gives some people for the SM to talk to when the boys are on autopilot. Note that we have not had the trouble other troops have had with helicopter moms. Most moms don't join us. The ones who do have been great. We have had some helicopter dads, the physical distance helps us manage them by setting the tone.

It's great to see your passion, but you need to find a balance. Either you let your son move on and stick around in an official position with the pack, or you move on with your son and plan for a period where the pack will be in a slump. We have involved adults who do both, and it either works as long as everyone is welcoming and flexible. But, let's say you move on to the troop, and nobody takes up the slack. Time for a plan B. Use your experience with your "found Webelo" to ask for help looking for middle-school boys who aren't on anybody's radar because they are no longer or never have been cubs. There's lots of ways to do that: plan boy-talks at schools, visit PTA meetings, community fairs, put up flyers, etc ... One dad did that for us and we had some awesome boys join our troop. In other words, you have options with or without a pack. Be prepared to leverage them.

You can only rarely work with a toxic attitude. It's a good sign that you haven't seen one in this scout. About half the time, I've seen casual or uncommitted scouts really grow from the challenges we've thrown down -- turning into intentional and dedicated young men. But you never know who will succeed until six months later. Still, it's worth the effort.

@David CO is right if indeed this boy has a toxic attitude. In that case apply the same rules to a different POR If the boy has just been treating scouting as a side show, and is changing his attitude, he could wind up encouraging boys to not slack. We can't tell which it is from this side of the Internet from @gblotter's troop. Only an ASM or a mature scout who knows the boy can help discern that.

They don't call it "House Flipping MB!" In a year and there'll be routine maintenance, alarms to check, shelves to hang, touch-up paint, holes to spackle. Try to get the church's custodian into the habit of sending the COR over with a list of things to check and repairs to make. Have the SPL go over it with the PLC and see how they can divide and conquer. The first drywall nail I ever pounded (heck, the first cut I ever made with a mitre box) was in our scout-room. One work-day with about four other boys and the SM did wonders for my self-esteem.

@MarkH, welcome to the forums. IMHO, your troop was right in letting scouts elect their SPL for as many terms as they can stand the youth. The job is not a "let every eager scout take a turn" kind of position, any more than captain of a varsity school team would be. It may be that your son's leadership style was "unpopular" with the boys. Either he needed to improve his style, or the boys are wrong. Doesn't hurt to learn early in life that both are possible. Your SM doesn't have a purpose for his JASMs. His loss. No point in a responsible boy like your son taking a useless job. If he's having fun as an O/A Rep then he should lean into that. It could be that there's a boy or two who aren't getting elected. Sharing his experience could be helpful to such a boy who doesn't understand why his peers rejected him. Likewise with the Outdoor Ethics Guide ... if boys are learning cool skills from him, he should keep it up and see if he can find which scout would qualify to be next year's guide! On the flip-side, devoting all of his time to his venturing crew would also be a "win." A troop is better served by a boy who heavily invests in the program he loves then comes back with his crew-mates to support an activity the troop would like to try rather than a boy who mopes and feels stuck (although it sounds like that's not your son).

My gut tells me that the PoR is where you will really want to see his growth. There are simple reasons for this: He hasn't spent his time as a life scout around the troop, and it doesn't sound like you have heard from any of his peers or his other coaches teachers, etc ... . You need to vouch that you personally have seen how capable leader he's become. A PoR like TG is not about the number of dog-and-pony shows he puts on. It's about guiding boys in becoming a solid patrol with great leaders. It's also about helping the SPL with a couple of boys who joined late or are playing "catch up" for whatever reason. Lot's of applicants have Eagle Scout on their resume. Few have "Troop Guide", fewer still can write a good essay about it. But, those who do will likely stop an admissions officer in his/her tracks. Being skilled in welcome newcomers is something that colleges actually pay for. So, rather than lay out a minimum number of meetings etc..., team up with your SPL and make a plan like this: He will be given the position for two months. At that time your or the SPL (or you, during SMC's) will touch base with the scouts he's supposed to guide and ask them, "Do you know your troop guide's name? Did he help you? How?" Based on what those boys report, the SPL and you will decide if he should hold the position for another two months. If not, you'll meet with him offer him a week or two break in which time he can look at the troop meetings/activities and see if there's another position of responsibility he'd like to try. In all cases, continuing in a position will be determined by the net result (for TG, the net result is boys who feel they were guided well), and because you're also trying to develop the SPL's leadership, communication. So, part of the position involves attending PLC's, cracker barrels on camp-outs, etc... because what he observes as he fulfills his PoR will help the other boys fulfill theirs. The plus side for a Life scout: if he's attending regularly, he'll have access to caring adults who will want help him succeed in his project and other paperwork. Needless to say, we should all be doing this for every PoR we hand out. With most scouts who attend weekly, we can let them in on these real benchmarks gradually. But, just like Son #1 who signed up to be the kicker his Senior year, if you haven't been around, you need to know up front that you'd better put in extra time, learn your special team's every move, and learn how to tackle the star running backs that nobody else could stop! If you lay out specifications like that, and the boy doesn't flinch, then he's probably ready to score the deciding point in playoffs earn eagle.

This "long-leash" principle is pretty common. We need to remind ourselves that we're dealing with an age range of 10.5 - 18. Moreover, the age of our parents is even wider. That's a lot different than most schools and sports leagues. When our school board decided to consolidate middle and high school kids into the same building, there was a huge outcry from parents of elementary school kids. I had had a positive experience when my 8th grade was moved to my high school, but I was less perturbed. Some of my teachers were brought up in one-room-schools (the old buildings were historic landmarks ... some of which we'd pass while hiking), so in addition to scouting, the concept wasn't strange to me. But, for others, thinking about all that is a bit traumatic. That's why the ideal committee guides the parents of younger scouts, the ideal SPL/ASPL looks those parents in the eye, greets them, and engenders trust, and the ASM's keep a good pulse on what's eating at the SM so they can assist him accordingly. Sometimes rules help give parents a vision, sometimes they scare and blind them. I like @Eagledad's home-grown "parental homesickness" diagnosis. It might help folks see where they fit in that big field with their boys' patrol in the far corner from them!