fred8033

Agreed. I'm writing from the point that I am comfortable now with units that shut down. We should not feel bad or guilty or a failure. It's just that the magic mix is gone. Primary concern is giving our scouts (and our sons) the best scouting experience possible. That might mean letting small troops close. Not the right answer for everyone.

We (adults) can get so caught up on if we are doing it right that we get distracted from whether the scouts find the troop fun and meaningful place to be. That means program. ... Yes we want scout-led, effective PLCs, teaching leadership, etc, but program drives the health of the unit.

I think this is well stated, well thought-out and responsible. Don't force a fight with a bad situation. If another troop is doing well, you can be serving your scouts well by getting them into a larger, healthier troop. It's not an easy or automatic transition, but it's often the best choice.

Yeah. The 60% down in cubs will follow and track to 60% down in troops. The peaks and valleys can be tracked as they age. The 911 attack happened during recruiting. We could see that in numbers for years.

After years of my arguing, I'm flipping sides. I'd like to see youth run/staffed BORs too. Troop adults get much value out of the BORs. It's often uncomfortable and clumsy. But, there could be lots of value having scouts listen to one of their own give them feedback. Perhaps one or two adults sitting at a distance, but within hearing range. It opens conversations between the scouts. It creates connections. It also would help an 11 year old feel comfortable talking to a 16/17 year old. etc, etc, etc. I will respect, salute and fulfil the GTA rules, but I'd like to see it changed.

Never encountered the issue, but then again we never used the lamp at the same time as the stove, etc. Our challenge was always too many things close to each other and too many hoses coming off near each other. The really bad was when multiple patrols tried to tap off the same large propane tank. If you use a large tank, still have one per patrol so they can camp and cook separately. Because of that, I prefer the small propane tanks for unit camping. But then again, I prefer white gas because of energy density and cold weather use.

Agreed. The MB program is not highly consistent. I'm not sure it needs to be. I have less trouble with summer camp than others as I'm more concerned about giving the scout new, unique, growing experiences. Others treat jumping the MB requirements as the key point of the game. ... It's probably somewhere in between. Then again, I don't think the leadership or troop program or camping expectations are very consistent either. Scouting has a huge variance away from average. It's one reason I'd almost rather have rank reflect number of nights camping / hiking, etc. IMHO, there is little reason an Eagle scout doesn't have 100 nights of camping. I'd be happy with an Eagle scout at 75 nights. IMHO, an Eagle scout should never have less than 30 nights of camping. Heck, I'd expect a first class scout to have 20+ nights of camping ... or (20 - 2*(number of overnight storms)) ... LOL.

That does not 100% map. Even if the unit leader signs, the unit can still apply the above GTA 7.0.4.7. GTA 7.0.4.7 exists to give the unit flexibility to correct a bad situation. Very similar to the BOR discussion in this thread. My point is it is absolutely wrong to think / treat the unit leader signatures as approving the badge. That is absolutely not the point of the unit leader signing the badge. The point is: The MBC approves the badge; not the unit leader.

Minor clarification. It's just the MBC signature that defines the badge as done. The unit leader signature is just evidence that the badge was handed over to the unit. Proof that "hey, I gave you the merit badge card. I have proof." ... it's not confirming the badge was earned. That's fully in the hands of the merit badge counselor.

Think of it not as "power" and more as "flexibility". There are too many possible situations to write clean, concise rules that handle everything. So, BSA documents the recommended approach and mindset. ... From there, the BOR can address scout misbehavior, parents abusing the advancement system, etc, etc, etc. If the BOR uses good judgement, the appeal levels will backup and support the BOR. If not, then the BOR can easily be overridden to support the scout. Recently answered here. Short answer yes. https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2022/08/26/ask-us-anything-we-answer-some-of-your-most-frequently-asked-questions-3/#:~:text=From the BSA's registration guidebook,far away from each other. If this is related to this situation, I'd really question the scout and the adults involved. I'd really, really, really hate seeing the troops pitted against one another. Scout active in one troop, but trouble with getting advanced. So, they work advancement in the other troop. IMHO, this is when adults need to start talking and working together. ... Perhaps BSA should emphasize rank advancement happens within your primary registration. I know I'd be really upset with a secondary registration troop that promoted the rank of a scout primarily registered in my troop ... especially if our troop was having issues with the scout.

Yes. BOR has that option. IMHO, a scout not participating in a BOR can and probably does trigger suspending the BOR. ... The key is it's to be extremely rare that a BOR faces saying NO the requirements have not been fulfilled. Missing badge? Short on POR time ? All badge signed by the dad? ... The BOR triggering this condition is to be very rare.

I'm on withdrawal. Any news / update?

Yep. 100%. Adventures does not mean expensive. Perhaps it's a rarely used local/regional spot (museum, park, etc) that has a related open area where you can also grill hot dogs for lunch. I view adventure as getting away from "meetings" to do something. Be active. Often, the adventure is waiting to be discovered.

Thank you. I had to find the reference. I was surprised. https://4-hshootingsports.org/#:~:text=Each year%2C 4-H teaches,boys and girls each year.

I'd like to see numerical comparison (seriously). Almost every scout that goes to summer camp experiences the shooting sports programs. I'm not aware of 4-H having shooting ranges or a broadly offered program. I appreciate your post. Thank you.

Preferred? It's actually not. Handguns first. Second is an AR-15 styled riffle. The AK47 riffle is an outlier ... from what I've read. Depending on "mass shooting" definition, you will see it's one use every several years to less used. As of May 2022, this noted a previous use from 2019. Rest were handguns or AR-15 styled. https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2022-05-27/mass-shooters-exploited-gun-laws-loopholes-before-carnage ... Perhaps, it's better said that "assault styled" weapons are the preferred firearm. But that is not useful either as it's way, way overly broad as it can include many handguns today too. Not used in competitions and practices? ... From what I've read ... it's because the AK-47 is not known for accuracy. Marksmanship and competitions would not use an AK-47 gun. If the teaching moment is awareness of styles of guns, teh AK-47 seems appropriate. World-wide the AK-47 is more common than AR-15 ... from what I've read.

My experience is BSA does a solid job. Perhaps, the Guide to Safe Shooting and it's implementation needs to be revisited yet again to remove remaining quality control variances that can allow incidents to happen. ... Perhaps should 1st graders be allowed to use any type of bow and arrow or bb-gun? I'm not sure. Sadly, BSA is the only national level organization that broadly offers a youth shooting sports activity. I doubt the YMCA will expand to pick up the responsibility. Kids benefit from physical exposure to guns and how to safely handle them. It removes the mystic and teaches knowledge and responsibilities.

Any SM worth their salt would support a scout that comes motivated with information and a plan. Research. Plan. Promote. Make it happen. That's huge and is what scouting is about. ... If you are excited about it, then find a way to make it happen. I'm betting you can find one or more adults (parents??) that would be willing to support your efforts.

IMHO, this is the telling statement. SM should have a SMC and ask about the role. If the SPL is not interested, then look for another. Or you don't even need an SPL with a small troop. IMHO, SPL does not have to go to NYLT or another training course or even be a XXX year or XXX rank scout. SM can coach the new SPL. They key is to find the scout that wants to be SPL. My advice feels like a broken record. Find a solution that works for your unit, but get the troop active and doing interesting things. That is what drives excited scouts.

Strictly speaking, no it's not too late. ... depending on vendor ... To do it well, it needs planning in August/September. Pack hands out sales materials before October 1st. Scouts selling in October. Order placed with vendor around Oct 31st to Nov 5th; delivery just after thanksgiving. BUT ... maybe you can find a vendor with a great on-line sales site. THEN, your pack can advertise via Facebook, twitter, emails, etc and people order directly from the site and your pack gets a cut. I've seen that happen recently too. So, it might not be too late, but it's a razors edge close to too late. Wishing you the best.

Welcome A charter org willing to financially support a cub pack is a very rare thing. For any and every check you get, be very, very thankful. Budgeting is a great idea. I always used my own spreadsheet. Find an existing template to start. https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/510-278_wb.pdf https://filestore.scouting.org/filestore/xls/13-273.xls ... excel spreadsheet version https://blog.scoutingmagazine.org/2017/04/05/create-budget-pack-troop-crew/ ... good article Google. You will find lots of great examples Plan to have some carry over money to keep the pack going. For example, never drop checking below XXXX ($500??) Per-scout or per-family charge for some items (camps, special activities, special awards). It's okay to not buy or do everything. Example - Pack doesn't have to buy the cub books or scarfs or belt loops. Maybe pack pays for key awards, but not the extras. Ten years ago, our pack would spend somewhere between $180 and $250 per scout per year (spreading all costs including adult registration costs) ... BUT that was before registration prices increased. Our spend changed depending on how much we raised. Idea was we spent funds raised on the current scouts with enough preserved to keep the pack an on-going concern. We charged $60 or more and raised the rest. BE THRIFTY. Look for free events. Look for cost savings. Pot-luck events. Cheap spaces to use. I wanted to ask about $300 behind ... but $300 is a small amount these days. Questions Is your COR offering a one-time additional funding? Or on-going support? Have your families donated to help the pack? (my opinion) It's important to have the families have some amount of financial skin in the game. Do your leaders help support their own registration? ... Some units have the unit pay for the key, key roles. But additional registrations are paid by the adults. ... This concept may have changed as BSA registration expectations have changed. Have you considered fundraising other than popcorn? Wreaths are probably too late. Christmas candy? Other? I'm often wondering about costs these days. In the past, we could easily spread the cost of 10 registered leaders across 50 or 60 cubs; especially as adult registration cost was cheap; $7 to $10 to $14 to $24 per adult. But adult registration cost was cheap and few adults were needed. Now, it feels like 50% of the adults would have to be registered and cost is $66 or more per adult. BSA membership now feels financially prohibitive. Interesting breakdown ... https://scoutsmarts.com/scouting-costs-registration-gear-uniforms-fees/

Lots of great advice above. Your response sounds reasonable. I'd also recommend to keep watching. Kids at his age feel lots of pressure.

Don't push too much formalism onto the scouts. Celebrate their planning. Your job is a loose one. Is committee / COR comfortable with their plans? ... i.e. no sky diving with paint ball guns? camping on Dec 25th? ... conflicts. safety. budget. ... Beyond that, your job is to help the troop infrastructure support the scout's plans. CC & SM should partner to decide how and how much to support the scouts. Sometimes committee reserves and pays for camping sites; buys more tents; coordinates cars; publishes schedules; processes advancement. Other troops, scouts do a lot of that. SM & CC should work to find the right balance to make the scout's program shine.

@Jmatt0613 ... @InquisitiveScouter is exactly right. This is not a winning battle for you. The adults are treating you as unwelcome. I don't see a recovery path. ... DO NOT TAKE THIS AS A PERSONAL HIT AGAINST YOU. Use this as a lesson on group dynamics. They don't view you as an equal. They are running the program for their kids and other under-age youth. You are not viewed as an adult or a parent. Life is filled with transitions. Don't be scared. It is time to cut your ties to the troop. Find somewhere else to spend your time. Hopefully, the future has a scouting path. BUT, it might also be outside scouting. Your future can be good both inside and outside scouting.

I'd argue younger siblings were already enjoying scouting when packs had family events. K, 1st and 2nd got to see the pack and experience the benefits. ... There is relatively little special about cubs in the very, very early years. The only loss is BSA membership revenue for those three years. But those gains are made up in big membership loses in later years. If I had to do it over again, I would have started my sons in scouting in 3rd or 4th grade. Nothing would have been lost. Younger siblings would have been able to participate in plenty of pack events.