Eagledad

The soul of the program is the vision. Volunteers shape toward the program, not the other way around. Anyone remember the forum member Bobwhite? He preached that if the unit wasn't performing, then they weren't following the published BSA guidelines. Top companies are successful because they hire like-minded in employees who believe in the product and vision. I was reading the different discussions on this forum the other day thinking how little we discussion operations anymore. Techniques for building the program toward developing character using the tools given by the BSA used to dominate this forum. God is the last holdout for liberals. It won't be long. Without a moral cornerstone, there can be no foundation for developing character. Barry

The only thing left is taking god completely out of the program. That will make the transition to total progressivism complete. I know it's just me and my nature, but I have to laugh when these changes are called progressive. I know progressives, "still laughing", like to use the Scouts program in England as and example of a scouting program recovering after making sharp left turns, but I keep watching the Canadian Scouts which doesn't show such hope. Doesn't really matter, the program lost its soul. Barry

True, but young males who matured through puberty also instinctively resist change. I agree the attraction to the opposite sex is very powerful, but the attraction can be entertained almost anytime and anywhere outside of scouting. Especially in this culture. The scouting experience for each scout is personal, even a bit sacred. I would be surprised to see the older scouts so willing to give it up. I used to coached units (and still do on this forum) that when the adults go through a leadership change, dramatic program changes come from the young scouts who have not yet bonded with personal experiences. Appease the older scouts until they move on. Build the new program with the younger scouts. Barry

The author admits near the beginning of the article that accepting girls is a business decision. Basically greed. But later she says it's advancing patriarchy? The article says more about the NYTimes than the changes of the BSA. But I snicker because the tone of her article asumes the folks driving this change at National are somewhat clever or smart. Barry

People who never made a mistake never tried anything new. Albert Einstein

I believe anyone should be allowed to attend committee meetings. How the meetings are run determines who wants or needs to attend them. Each unit is different. Special closed meetings are called for sensitive discussions. And I find the fewer the better for those meetings. Barry

It’s really more of an attitude. You do what you can do with your resources. The patrols in my troop as a youth always roped off the patrol campsites whether or not we were 100 yards, feet, or whispering distances apart. Scouts of other patrols were expected to ask for permission to enter the other campsites. Barry

As I was walked by a patrol, a scout asked, in a tone loud enough to carry, is the rinse water supposed to be hot or cold? But as the scout finished the question, he was already walking away saying”I know, check the handbook.”. The biggest problem with the Scout Handbook is the adults, because, other than advancements, they really don’t know what the books say. Example: the handbook is very clear how and when a scout wears the uniform. Yet, every troop has a different policy. Our scouts were always encouraged to reference all their sources when they taught subjects. They were also always encouraged to keep them near as a source for their scouting activities. So we are big fans of the handbook. That being said, Reading the handbook to the group might come in handy when trying to emphasis a point (like wearing the uniform), but a steady diet of readings might have the most impact after lights out. Barry

This is a difficult question. Was the CM out of line? Yes, in general the adult by stander is not the judge of right or wrong in a patrol method program. On the other hand, did the Patrol leader need some guidance? We talk about learning from decisions and adults giving the scouts space to learn, but there is so much grey area that it’s hard to know where the adults role is defined. Learning from our mistakes takes practice. Knowing how to turn experiences into positive growth takes time and patience. this troop sounds young and inexperienced. The adults need as much time and practice to learn as the scouts. Quazse and NJ are both good reading. Your son’s troop is somewhere in between. So let’s look in the big picture. My advice is ask the son if the CM was right? If he says maybe, then ask the son why he is angry. If the son feels what the CM said was wrong, then the son has challenges at several levels. I would ask him to take some time to reflect, then talk to the SM. Then I would give my own opinion after they talked. There is something for all of us to learn from the sons experience. In our lives, we will always have CMs telling us what is right and wrong. The challenge is how a scout (and mature adult) should handle the situation when the CMs are right, and when they are wrong. And trust me, it’s just as challenging for a scout master to find the right words as it is the parent. The SM has has the added burden of adult pride to counter with. We CMs stand pretty tall and don’t like to fall. I hope the son sorts this out and has a life learning experience. I hope the SM has great wisdom for the scout. I hope the CM has to work weekends and misses the next few camp outs. Barry

I don’t know Eagle93, National has admitted they brought in girls to save the program from a declining membership. Switch the BSA and GSUSA titles around and your post would be just as believable. The BSA membership numbers have been dropping for many years. Once the influx of girls is stable, National has done nothing I can see that prevents the return of a continued membership decline. A good marketing slogan for the BSA in this moment could be: “Join the BSA, the lesser of two evils”. Barry

Admitting girls was the deal breaker for me. I will not be registering with my grand kids. But, my kids aren't happy about admitting girls to the program either, so I'm not sure that would come up. However, pragmatically, I don't think these YPT changes would have affected our program much 20 years ago. Barry

If you have the clout, go for the District Commissioner. I personally believe the DC is most power person in the district and has the most leverage with council. Besides other advantages, the DC can control the training and training materials. I believe (I know) training is the fastest avenue for making broad changes through the units. The DC was my goal for taking over the world, bru ha ha ha. By the time I was asked, I was so burned out that I declined. I know, but just the possibility that the person at the other end of my ringing phone was someone wanting to talk scout business nauseated me. And, that is why you haven't seen the world change for the better. Barry

Seems like a reasonable change with a coed program. Over the years I learned of scouting behavior situations and statistics that shocked me. I know that there are boy scout babies in the world. I knew that far enough back that those babies could be adult leaders now. One of my Patrol Method role models, who I met on the forum, quit scouting because of the coed problems in their Troop/Venturing Crew program. He and I were chatting (1997) at a Camporee 1:00 am while sitting between the girls and boys tents. He felt that American youth in our culture weren't mature enough to be coed. They were probably doing it wrong, because I know of a lot of successful Troop/Venturing programs that don't have this problem. Still, even church camps have to deal with the situation. But now we live in an open gay, transgender , and whatever culture. In fact, in some ways these behaviors are encouraged. I have heard of youth sexual abuses in scouting. And If I know of a couple, you can bet National has enough information to motivate such a requirement. The only time I can recall any of our scouts tenting together that were more than two years apart was a 16 year old scout who volunteered to monitor (babysit) a severely mentally retarded new scout. And, many of the sexual abuse reports I learned about were with scouts of the same age, and consensual. So, it's not and end all. Barry

Kids don’t always listen, but they are always watching what you do. Cindy Crawford

Let’s change that. We can’t have too much of a good thing. Stupid adult, always making rules. Barry

Don’t fear falling down, fear not getting up.

I have never felt more appreciated and unwanted as I did in the moment of his request. One wonderful thing that came out of my time off was the independence my younger 16 year old son gained as a result. We never saw much of each other at the meetings or camp outs, but we both felt a since of freeing when I wasn't part of the program. Kind of hard to explain, but it was a growing experience for both of us. Barry

A large jar of hair jell.

My replacement requested I take a 3 month hiatus because he felt my respect with the scouts might overshadow his effort in developing a relationship with them. I thought that odd since I trained him to be "Just like me". Barry

That is exactly what we do. During my stint as SM, we had two or three BOR leaders who recruited parents standing around, including new parents. The scouts have to request a BOR by signing up on a BOR request sheet. We always try to do the review the same day they sign up, which requires building a board with those standing around at that moment. The leaders give the volunteers a list of basic questions to help them get involved. Typically the leader starts with a few questions to set a tone for the BOR and to keep the question appropriate. As you said, it is a great way for parents to get involved. Barry

I guess, but I was hoping for quotes that both scouts and scouters could use in their units to motivate everybodies daily efforts.

My dad taught me this when I was very young. But he never gave Mark Twain the credit.

To answer your question, the CC is responsible for the BOR. Ideally they delegate the responsibility to another adult. You are in a tough spot because you are going to have to bring this up to the CC and/or committee. At the moment don't worry about passing around the responsibility. Your committee (and SM) need to get trained to how the advancement system works. If I were you, I would get all the documentation I could to learn exactly how the advancement process works and where the adults fit in. When you confront the CC and committee, you need to present facts back by the BSA. I say confront, but that sounds a bit harsh for how you discuss this subject. You don't want to get them defensive. You want to help inform the team so that they can be more efficient and not create some confussion down the road when a scout is getting ready for his EBOR. Barry

If it doesn't challenge you, it wont change you.

Orienteering