Eagledad

We live in the more southern part of the states, so I didn't know that liberals say "eh" differently. But it makes sense I guess. Barry

I agree, it will be very much like Canadian Scouts. Barry

Not a lot of information, and a lot depends on the troop culture. In general, selection of leadership is based on respect, which usually is earned. For me, everything in scouting is about developing good habits of character. So, I approached guiding Scouts to practice for skills (servant skills) not advancement. But, if the scout follows my guidance, we both get what we want. I guided ambitious Scouts to volunteer for positions that would give them practice of leadership skills and expose them to the rest of the Troop. Our troop used to pick up trash on a 1 mile section of a road every two months. I suggested the scout talk to the SPL and volunteer himself to lead the next service project. I gave him a couple of guidelines for planning the project and going to the PLC to explain his plan. He also should announce the project at a couple of Troop Meetings to sign volunteers. That can go several ways, but the scout does all the leg work so he practices planning and whatever skills he uses. The hardest part for theses guys is taking lead on the day of the project. Usually our SPLs knew these guys were inexperienced and would show up to do a little coaching. Our SPLs rocked. If you look around, there are a lot of opportunities to gives Scouts some leadership exposure. Assisting the crew setting up program activities, helping or leading COHs, or even helping Troop Guides. They don’t get leadership credit, but they develop respect and practice serving. Those Scouts usually move up in leadership pretty fast. By the way, I also tried to volunteer a new adult to work with the scout so I could show them how adults mentor in a Patrol Method Troop. Barry

Your situation is typical of scout units. As one poster pointed out, finding good leaders is a challenge, especially SM. Maybe your SM is recruiting because nobody else is. He’s just not very good. I don’t know your strengths and skills, but you can step up and play Your cards, even if it’s just recruiting. 95% of us are followers and tend to follow the other 5% because we don’t like to rock the boat, even if we are being led off a cliff. I imagine if you asked for a few minutes with the SM, he would be glad to listen and the both of you can team up to find a solution. Barry

Even a youth who “Having boy troops and girl troops are separate with the same program. Everyone has their panties up in a wad that how dare girls be allowed to do the same things as boys”? A little hint; when stress pushes us adults to our limits (about Wednesday at summer camp), our worst quick reaction typically appears. If you can’t resist over reacting while behind a keyboard with your feet propped up, eating a sugar free donut, I assure you the Scouts will expose your weakness. The forum is a good opportunity for practicing on adults the good habits of a Scouter who says they support all youth. Barry

I also am tired of those who label everyone they disagree with under one cynical umbrella. Ironically, the reactionary premise of their accusations are as juvenile as the motivations of those they accuse. Yes, liberals and conservatives both, but on a forum for a youth character building program? Barry

Ah, l see. I’m sorry for your experiences of racism. Still, not all discrimination is wrong. Some discrimination is required for fairness, not comfort. Barry

Yah, I’m not sure what mashmaster was really trying to say. I don’t think he meant discrimination because some discrimination is good. Just ask female Olympic athletes. I believe separate male and female scouting programs are better for character growth than combined programs. I’m not sure how history could prove that wrong. Barry

You're young and single. Barry

The other part was the scouts showed up to the college on Friday night to meet all the counselors. They could then learn about the courses and if they decided to take the course, set up the arrangements personally with the counselor. The scouts then had to fill out the Blue Cards and get them signed by the SM or representative adult. Most of the SM's were there so they could sign the cards. The scouts needed cards to get in their classes the next day. The counselors where not required, and actually encouraged, to not complete all the requirements in one day. We would provide two additional saturdays if they needed, and the counselors could set up their own meeting place as well. Basically, I just provided a place where the counselors could run their courses. The scouts had to do all the leg work just like they were supposed to do in their own unit. I wanted to switch from treating the scouts like middle school children to adults attending seminars. I also was planning to have district adult training at the same time since we were getting access to the local high school. It was so different from their standard MB handout program that District just couldn't buy into it. Just as well, I'm by nature lazy and our SPL would have likely been mad when I delegated it off to him. Barry

Part of what I hate about our district MB College are the scouts are stuck there for 8 hours whether or not (mostly not) they want eight hours of MBs. They had to pay THIRTY FIVE DOLLARS for lunch and what-not. Some adult in the past created a huge complex computer spread sheet (probably a WB ticket item) that required filling out all the scouts names, their chosen MBs, counselors and some other stuff. With 400 scouts, that is a ton of work. I redesigned the course to cost NOTHING, the scouts could come and go at their leisure and the only a input for the spread sheet was the counselors information. What's not to like? Well, I changed a lot more as MattR pointed out, but those are the part District didn't like. Barry

Out of the blue District called and said it was time for our Troop to plan and run the MB College. I detest our districts MB College because it's run so poorly that it's basically just handing out badges. So, I said OK, and I presented a plan that was completely different from their usual program. The response was, "never mind". Barry

You are right, the SM has a lot of influence here if he allowed. It's all about personalities. How strong is the COR? How do you fit in? The best way to get the right person in any position is to personally recruit a qualified person. Someone (maybe you) needs to act one step a head of the SM and recruit a qualified CC and present them to the COR to accept. There are preferred ways of doing business to be successful, but I found that volunteer organizations are reactionary and tend to go first come first serve instead. And, that is why personalities drive the program instead of qualified expertise. Someone has to step up to pushing the preferred method of doing business. If you aren't that person, do you know who is? Barry

My apologies to Hedgehog and Parkman for going too far with my response. I tend to be a bit defensive when posters demonize adult leaders to make a point. I'm will step back and say that while that is how I interpreted their post, I was wrong. It's one thing to reflect on experiences, but something different when strawmen are the excuse to preach. I am just as defensive with posters who attack scouts the same way. The subjects of scouts and scouters with different non typical sexual identities are difficult because there is a broad opinions on the subjects. Which is fine, I enjoy different perspectives. But when posters start referencing their opinion as, how can I say this, morally superior, then my patience is challenged. I would rather a pragmatic explanation of each other opinion and move on. We don't have to agree. In fact, we will not agree much of the time. But at least we can have the civil discussion. If my way of directing discussions more pragmatically seems annoying, just talk to my family. It drives them crazy. I guess it is the engineer in me, but I like folks to get to the point quickly and without emotion. Of course, I quickly become a hypocrite, and I know it. But I'm trying to get better. Barry

This has been a big concern for me. I learned over the years that boys are big picture people while girls are more instinctively detail people. When the two are mixed together in a meeting, girls naturally takeover because they get into details that make boys eyes glaze over. And we know the natural response of adults. Sadly, the more adults use girls to peer pressure the boys into being more proficient with program details, they more they are driven away with a sour impression of scouting. Patrol method works well for boys because it gives them the practice of working the details of a big picture as a result of their decisions. A patrol will forget their food only once. I can identify good leadership troops from the bad ones simply by watching their older scouts lead. The adults of good troops allow the patrol method "method" to work so that the scouts get to practice details, a lot. To learn a thing, we have to practice a thing. The adults in bad troops tend to takeover and perform the details themselves. Trying not to brag about our program, but the OA adviser started pushing the scouts from our troop to be the leaders because he recognized that they were more creative and organized with organization business than the other troops in the district. Barry

Well, I find all your self-righteous grandstanding sickening. Most of us hear have similar experiences as yours and most of us respond with similar reactions. You have no proof that any scouter here has acted or will act otherwise. But you use our posts out of context to express judgemental accusations on most of the forum list. In your hypocrisy, you are see all scouts as amazingly wonderful, but not all scouters. This is a place where scouters have an open forum to express their thoughts on these subjects. But since many of the opinions aren't your opinions, you find the differences offensive. I hinted earlier that sometimes silence is the most powerful response to a post. But you can't help yourselves. Your emotions drive you to change us. I lost respect you guys because you have no respect or trust for anyone who thinks differently than you. You can't guilt me to change, I have too much of real life experiences with real life people balanced with religion and pragmatic sense to fall into your shallow utopian vision. Folks who know me know that the "My way of the highway" doesn't work for me. I'm open minded about new ideas and approaches. But at the same time, I know what works and what doesn't. If you want to change the goals, fine. But don't get angry with those of us who don't accept your idealist progressive vision. Just accept that we go our way, you go yours. Remember, scouting is local. You want heart tugging stories, I can pretty much match anyone here. But if you think you are selling the better BSA, well you will have to contend with my real life experiences and the wisdom that was painfully forged from those experiences. We all want a civil discussion of looking at life from our different perspectives. But when we start ranking each others moral character by our words, well something has to be said. Barry

Actually it is, or was. This all started when Obama used a loop hole in the law to leverage adults to claim asylum as a relatives of children. That is how uncles and aunts, great uncles and great great aunts are using the system to get into the US. Obama was just better at hiding it. Your use of moral high ground is as malleable as your uses of sex and gender. Barry

For me, it appears more as self righteousness than optimism. You would be amazed of the opinions for how to handle disrespectful scouts that go out of their way to rile adults. They are good humans too. What about serverly retarded scouts? And what about helicopter parents. They are all good humans, but each us have our limits to the giving of our time. Maybe you are better off thinking all adults are good humans as well who find the best place for their volunteering. Barry

I don't understand the grandstanding, I can't find any posts in this discussion that suggest otherwise. Barry

There is no biological explanation of sexual behavior different from their born gender, what if the adult feels they had no choice during their youth? Barry

You are now contradicting yourself. If the BSA doesn't think supporting transgenders is abuse, then is it abuse? I'ts kind of funny about scouts' behaviors. How often have you worked with a scout and then thinking to yourself after meeting the parents for the first time, "oh, well that makes sense". Barry

No. We had several gay parents. Most of my scouts are adults now and I know of one Eagle who has come out gay. None of us are surprised, and I wouldn't be surprised to hear that he switch to heterosexual later. He had a lot of personal issues and a challenging behavior. He often used our troop activities as a place to vent. Barry

And you don't see this as a risk of abuse! Who decides gender identity, the parents or the youth? Do you not see yourself making my point of the BSA excusing abuse? Barry

OK, let's try this: A person can still respect of another person without supporting their identity. I show gay and transgender scouts the same respect that I show my gay and transgender friends and relatives, as well as my non-gay and non-transgender friends and relatives. Isn't that what living the Scout Oath and Law is all about? Thank you. Barry

Support! No, I think you mean respect. A person can still be respected without supporting their behavior. Respect and support are quite different. Some believe supporting some behaviors is no less than child abuse. Encouraging volunteers of a national youth organization to support youth behavior they disagree with is encouraging an organization of child abuse. I understand and respect that many disagree, but they should respect it. Barry