Eagledad

This is quite good. I believe God's reflections of anger in the whole First Testament are examples of using anger specifically for teaching. However, I also found that disappointment was my best tool for showing a scout how I felt about his performance. Maybe because body language is honest and sincere, but I rarely had to add words for impact. It worked well in our troop because we discouraged yelling (raised voices) as a form of motivating action. I'm not sure if this style of reflecting to scouts requires practice and maturity, but I had to grow into it. Again well said. We each have a different style for influencing scouts. Consistency is very powerful because the scouts will quickly learn your leadership style and count on it. MattR says to let everyone know before hand, but I found that when leadership actions are consistent, reputation and integrity will eventually lead the way. Words rarely trump consistent actions. For outsiders looking in, the leadership and role modeling style of the dominant leader (usually the SM) will become the obvious character of the whole troop. So put humility on the top of your list of practicing traits, because nobody gets it right the first time. Barry

We've never had a scout that wouldn't camp without a parent. Not that I knew about anyways. I think the Patrol Leaders know how to deal with something like that. I like to move the adults far enough away to where we can't hear them at night. That's about 100 yards, give or take. The only time I ever regretted that spacing was when I had to visit a sick scout at 3:00 AM on a moonless night in a heavy woods with an outside temperature of Zero degrees. Barry

I'm not sure what gblotter is agreeing or disagreeing to. Why would the adults be more trained for safety than the scouts? Why would one scout be more likely to get lost than one adult? I have personally been lost on three of our treks (twice at Philmont, and once in Boundary Waters), but the whole group was lost, not just me. And the group figured out how to get back to the trail. Is a trained scout less likely to get the group back on the trail? When I work with unit adults in training who are reluctant to give scouts independence because they fear the worst, I guide them to train the scouts to be prepared for that fear. All adults have some kind of fear. For me it was lightning and severe burns. So to ease the stress of my fears, we worked a lot on lightning and fire safety, as well as first-aid for those situations. There was no reason for me to restrict our scouts program if they are prepared for those situations. Scouting does a good job preparing all it's members (both scouts and adults) for the common emergencies out in the woods. While I admit the responsibility of safety for all the scouts weighs more heavily on the Scoutmaster, a SM should never feel they have better judgement for the scouts' safety. If they do, then training should be in order. Barry

Good article. Kind of on the same basis of other discussions on this forum. It won't sit well for those here who believe that both men and women are Venus. Masculinity for them is a four letter word that implies unfair power. When I look at the list and ponder what I gained in my youth that carried me over as a self-confident husband, father and grandfather, I must say it's the code. The moral code I learn as a youth kept me balanced over my life kept when all those around me were running around flailing their arms in the wind. The moral code is the legacy a boy will carry the rest of his life. As scout leaders, we start with the moral code so that the scouts learn to ground themselves as they practice the rest of the list. Barry

Our best SPL was the same. He LOVED everything about scouting except advancement. Barry

Leaders need to be taught to not be afraid of just going outside and letting the boys burn energy. My son has told me many times that those were some of his most memorable fun meetings. I ran two 1.5 hour den meetings a month and at least 30 minutes were given to high energy game time. Barry

Kill things! Is that like saying knives are designed to kill things? Or the SUV that kills drivers of other cars. Go visit a shooting range and count how many things are killed. I don't know, but I feel safe in saying that 99.999 percent of the bullets shot from these guns were not intended to kill anything. And it's probably just as safe to say that 99.9999 of gun owners have never killed anything either. That includes hunters. Guns are tools for sport, just like the killer baseball bat. In fact, there is actually a number of golfers killed each years by impelling themselves with a club that somehow struck a tree. I imagine they just need better training for hitting trees with their clubs. Guns are just tools like chainsaws, power saws, drills and even the evil nail "gun". I don't know how it is now, but the tree/limb saw was the most common reported woods tools accident by scouts and scouters. I know for a fact that schools have far more injuries in the shop classes than the number of gun incidents at schools. Is the band saw designed to kill? While I'm open to practical ideas on this subject, lets keeps things in perspective. Barry

The Latin Scot, you nailed it. How much would discussions change here if we all read your post before starting new threads. The tone of your post should be the tone of the SM Specific course. The contents of the syllabus wouldn’t need to change, just the adults frame of mind for how to apply the course subjects as they are presented. Barry

It’s more, but I don’t like showing my cards. Barry

Good point. It’s a whole new ball game. But, until experience shows us different, we work with what we know. Barry

Throwing out my 20 years Experience Card again. Boys don’t care if the program is a transition program or not. As long as they are having fun, they will stick around and cross over. I have watched Webelos dens that were nothing more than an advanced Bear programs cross over 100% because they were fun. I have seen Districts cross over 90% of their Webelos because they worked with each Webelos leader to make sure they had the support needed to run fun meetings. Burned out leaders were assigned troops to help them. While a transition program can certainly be fun, a fun program doesn’t have to be a transition program. Barry

Age card? Stating our experiences is a card? How does someone with a “anti-OA” card know what’s best for a dreamer? Scouters should spend less effort telling what Scouts can and cannot do, and instead a build a program that encourages more dreams and let’s the Scouts choose their path. Barry

Lol, I have too much actual experience to know better. And I have no problem with glass half empty people so long as they don’t keep trying to pour that half empty glass on dreamers.

Then you are doing it wrong. Barry

If the boys are having fun now, they will want to continue the fun next year. Barry

Well that is not typical of national, or wasn’t. I haven’t been involved for the last 10 years. Is that District or Council wide a far as you know? I would enjoy coming down to abserve the program in your area. Maybe you guys are doing something right that would benefit the rest of us. Barry

CMs and ACMs are generally more passionate about the program and aren’t as affected by burn out. But, those leaders (Wisconsinmomma) only make up about 5% of total leadership. Troops suffer from burnout as well, but it’s not as much of a problem because the Scouts take on a lot more responsibility. However, I have seen that Troop Venturing Crews were generally started by burned out troop leaders looking for more adventure to keep them interested. Likely why they rarely last more than 3 years. I found the best Webelos leaders are Troop leaders that go back to take on a Den. They know how to have fun and ignore the boring stuff. Barry

Could be right, but 80% of Bear leaders are moms in either the 2nd or 3rd year of Cub leading. We can agree to disagree, I invested a lot of time to find this conclusion. Dont ever blame other programs, if a boy enjoys scouts enough, he will find a way. Barry

No wonder the world is in such a mess. Folks are so focused on their own personal agendas, they are color blinded to reality. You always misread between the lines of my posts. The only blame is National that burdens the cub adults so much that they are burned out by third year of a five year program. I personally interviewed dozens of Webelos leaders over the years, so if you don’t agree, you are free to invest your own time to prove me wrong. Let me give you a hint, start talking to the Bear leaders. I also interviewed many male Webelos leaders who had no desire to lead the Den, but were swayed (heels dragging) one way or another into holding Den meetings. Their Scouts couldn’t wait to jump ship. I believe it’s fair to say 40% of Webelos leaders have no enthusiasm for being a den leader and are counting days to cross over. Its a huge problem, but as long as folks are stuck on their own personal agendas, the real problems get ignored. Shesh. I started a program in our District to help burned out Webelos leaders, which had some success. But a few scouters who read about the program on the forum created the program in their own district with great success of about 90% crossovers. Unimaginable in my area. Barry

And one other big factor is the average Webelos leader is the burned out mom who has no outdoor camping experience. Is anybody surprised by the 49% crossover number? Barry

I agree and disagree on this. The statistic Nationally is less than 50% of “Webelos IIs” join Boy Scouts. So if we added the dropouts from all the age groups, including the Tigers, the number of cubs who don’t join Boy Scouts is substantial, maybe 75%.The main cause of cub drop outs is adult leader burnout. Burned out Leaders don’t put the effort into the program to make it interesting for the boys, so they get bored and move on. I believe the overburdened Cub program is the main cause for dropping membership the 30 years. Barry

Aren’t you the adult who doesn’t allow OA in your troop? Barry

So very true. I was a very good recruiter as well. It requires someone of humility because others will get the recognition for the tasks you recruited for. I learned that recruiting is an art and a rarer skill than most realize. You can move mountains simply by putting the right people in the right positions. I know this, we now have a few mountains in Oklahoma. Barry

I was recruited for that very thing. BUT, how much can we do in one hour a week. We turned a dying troop of 7 into a successful patrol method program of 100. That takes a bit more than one hour a week. There are many discussions on this forum of learning how to say "No". And please don't think bad of us. I had many choices for applying my one hour a week after I step back from Scoutmastering. I decided to go a route where I could accomplish the most growth with my limited time. It was a purposeful strategic choice of teaching adults and senior scouts at the council level. My dream was a council of patrol method troops. I just didn't see accomplishing the same goal with OA. I admit I believe OA is hopeless. Barry

I think what OA represented is dead. OA used to recognize the above average scouts. They were experts with woods tools and felt very comfortable alone in the woods. They were givers of their time an represent Friendly, Courteous, and Kind to a fine art. Todays adults prefer mediocrity so that nobody feels bad being the below average scout. Advancement is more desired in groups and leadership is given so that each scout gets a turn. OA was a program that gave the above average scouts a bigger arena to expand dreams. Now it's just another boring program that is challenged to fit in a troop agenda. Barry